05:50 <lamont> well fancy guidance is now flying rockets for the first time, although it goes insane when staging because i have more glue code to write

09:38 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: yay!

09:38 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: is it using the Principia bindings?

09:38 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: can we help?

10:29 <GH> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #1840: [Replying to the forum post since it provides a wider picture and a design rationale; doing it here since to keep the discussion about this change in one place.]... https://git.io/vhUgj

10:34 <GH> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #1840: [Replying to the forum post since it provides a wider picture and a design rationale; doing it here since to keep the discussion about this change in one place.]... https://git.io/vhUgj

12:28 <GH> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #1840: [Replying to the [forum post](https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162200-wip131-143-principia%E2%80%94version-darboux-released-2018-05-15%E2%80%94n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation-axial-tilt/&page=41&tab=comments#comment-3384345) since it provides a wider picture and a design rationale; doing it here to keep the discussion about this change in one place.]... https://git.io/vhUgj

14:23 <egg|zzz|egg> !wpn rsparkyc

14:23 <egg|zzz|egg> rsparkyc: the UI may become less shitty soon! #1840

14:23 <Qboid> [#1840] title: Blizzy's toolbar support | Hi guys!... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/1840

14:26 <egg|zzz|egg> awang: ^

15:06 <rsparkyc> oh sweet

15:26 <GH> [Principia] rsparkyc commented on issue #1840: You may also want to look into this for hiding the principia button from the stock toolbar:... https://git.io/vhTLK

15:46 <GH> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #1840: `License: Lesser GPL`... https://git.io/vhTmd

15:51 <GH> [Principia] rsparkyc commented on issue #1840: @pleroy: Out of curiosity, what part of the Lesser GPL is most objectionable? https://git.io/vhTYy

16:00 <GH> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #1840: @rsparkyc:... https://git.io/vhT3Z

16:02 <egg|zzz|egg> !wpn rsparkyc

16:02 <rsparkyc> what’s with the weapons?

16:04 <egg|zzz|egg> I don't know, it's a fun Qboid function?

16:04 <rsparkyc> i suppose that’s fair :)

16:04 <egg|zzz|egg> or do you mean that they are odd?

16:04 <egg|zzz|egg> they are

16:04 <egg|zzz|egg> blame the egg

16:04 <egg|zzz|egg> (I mean UmbralRaptop added weird ones too, but I think I started it)

16:04 <egg|zzz|egg> !wpn

16:04 <egg|zzz|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptop

16:05 <UmbralRaptop> !wpn egg|zzz|egg

16:05 <UmbralRaptop> !wpn rsparkyc

16:05 <rsparkyc> !wpn qboid

16:27 <lamont> egg: no fancy bindings

16:27 <Qboid> lamont: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [23.05.2018 14:23:48]: "so i ran into that issue where phi=45 with your mechjeb build"

16:27 <Qboid> lamont: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [23.05.2018 14:24:21]: "i was trying to launch into a 90 inclination from vandenburg, but mechjeb didn’t want to do it for me"

16:29 <lamont> egg: i’m not sure i’ll need the same binding

16:30 <lamont> i think i only need the x + v predictions at some t, not the “closest point to this point” stuff

16:37 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: okay so that's the flowwhatever?

16:37 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: the one that currently returns NOT_IMPLEMENTED? :D

16:38 <egg|zzz|egg> "ExternalFlowFreefall"

16:39 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: you're still working in ECI only right, no fancy EMB etc. yet?

16:39 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: but wait, how are you going to interface with the Principia manoeuvres if you don't use the "closest to this point" thing

16:41 <egg|zzz|egg> !wpn lamont

16:45 <lamont> i think i just need x(t) + v(t) to evalute, then i figure out the delta. then a numerical jacobian function figures out the partial derivatives w.r.t. each initial parameter and a gradient function takes the step which tries to minimize the delta (including stepping forwards in time). eventually the delta is zero and that’s the end of the burn when delta-x and delta-v are zero and so the burn has intercepted your prediction curve

16:45 <lamont> exactly.

16:49 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: wait x(t) and v(t) planned?

16:49 <egg|zzz|egg> or predicted

16:49 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: you probably also need something to predict gravity, right?

16:50 <egg|zzz|egg> how do you compute the delta otherwise

16:52 <lamont> yeah, i’m doing that and ignoring n-body effects, so my side of the prediction will be off, but as delta-t closes down to zero, it won’t matter

16:53 <lamont> (although i can incorporate that these days since i’m properly integrating equations of motion, so i could add Earth-Moon-Sun-Jupiter to the calcs if i needed to)

16:53 <lamont> i need x(t) and v(t) of the target orbit

16:59 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: but that means your integration won't have L2

16:59 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: ok, x(t) and v(t) of the target orbit sounds feasible, but it's a new endpoint :D

17:00 <egg|zzz|egg> s/L2/J2/

17:00 <Qboid> egg|zzz|egg meant to say: lamont: but that means your integration won't have J2

17:03 <lamont> yeah but your target orbit has J2

17:04 <lamont> my impulsive burn won’t quite be optimal, and by the time i’m ending the burn i will be slightly off from the prediction at the start of the burn, but by iteratively running closed-loop eventually i’ll find your prediction which is the source of truth which has J2

17:04 <egg|zzz|egg> true

17:05 <lamont> the difference will likely be something like 0.2dV or that sort of inconsequentialness

17:05 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: I guess at a later date we can run your closed-loop integration too, but for now I guess relying on Δt -> 0 works

17:05 <lamont> and i can jam J2 into my EOM as well

17:05 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: dV is decivolts, did you mean m/s?

17:05 <egg|zzz|egg> spaceclippy

17:06 <lamont> hahaha

17:06 <lamont> “it looks like you’re trying to build a multimeter, do you need assistance?”

18:38 <GH> [Principia] formicant commented on issue #1840: > I don’t think using Blizzy’s toolbar is the best approach here…... https://git.io/vhTaj

19:56 <lamont> egg: guess check and refine

19:58 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: what should the behaviour be when t is during the burn

19:58 <lamont> yeah that’s the thing isn’t it

20:00 <lamont> it’d be best to get accurate predictions of the target orbit from before when you’re predicting the burn should end

20:04 <lamont> if you truncate it and t < t0 returns x(t0), v(t0) then it may not intercept correctly and may arrive at x+v at that earlier t < t0

20:15 <egg|zzz|egg> hm

20:29 <lamont> ∆v

20:29 <lamont> TIL option-j on a mac is ∆

20:31 <lamont> there’s all kinds of shit there… åß∂ƒ©˙∆˚¬µ˜∫√ç≈Ωœ∑´®†¥¨ˆøπÅÍÎÏ˝ÓÔÒ˜ı◊Dz¸Œ„´‰ˇÁ¨ˆØ∏

21:02 <egg|zzz|egg> !u ∆

21:02 <Qboid> U+2206 INCREMENT (∆)

21:02 <egg|zzz|egg> aha it's even increment and not delta

21:02 <egg|zzz|egg> !u 

21:02 <Qboid> U+F8FF PRIVATE USE-F8FF ()

21:03 <egg|zzz|egg> O_O

21:07 <lamont> now you’ve done it, apple is going to hunt you down

21:07 <egg|zzz|egg> is @stephentyrone going to meow at me

21:20 <lamont> sigh agathorn you bastard

21:21 <lamont> “RL10-1A failed: Failed to ignite”

21:21 <lamont> well that would have been the first really successful flight to orbit

21:21 <lamont> why do i have agathorn turned on in sandbox?

21:21 <egg|zzz|egg> lamont: why do you have testflight to test... yeah

21:22 <egg|zzz|egg> "agathorn turned on" is a strange way of putting it but yeah

21:22 <lamont> lol

21:22 <lamont> “phrasing”

21:22 <lamont> okay gotta run, bbialw

21:23 <egg|zzz|egg> \o

23:23 <lamont> was getting scared this new code was working too well, then it failed to converge for a launch to a 135 inc orbit...

23:28 <egg|df|egg> hah