<VITAS[m]>
ive the feeling that all this refusal of making sd a more social place where people can actualy post and exchange opinions about mods ended up in this channel becoming the support and eschange place without mod authors
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<Darklight[m]>
Because mod authors don't want yet another place they have to look at :P
<VITAS[m]>
so we have to do their support
<VITAS[m]>
not good
<VITAS[m]>
im for collection all those questions and if they feel like actualy looking at them they are welcome if they dont want another palce to look at its fine too
<VITAS[m]>
noone forces someone to use a service because theres talk about him or his product.
<HebaruSan[m]>
I mean referring someone to the forum thread isn't really support or a big deal, just saying
<VITAS[m]>
so basicly it isnt helping?
<HebaruSan[m]>
"Support" is like listening to problems and asking follow-up questions with intent to solve them
<HebaruSan[m]>
Saying "Go here" is much easier
<VITAS[m]>
i want to let people help themselves
<HebaruSan[m]>
Most probably do
<HebaruSan[m]>
A few fall through the cracks
<HebaruSan[m]>
shrug
<VITAS[m]>
yes i know you dont want people to be able to exchange opinions and ideas on sd they should dl and go
<Sethbyas[m]>
Thats just wrong
<VITAS[m]>
i personaly want to be as independend from T2 as possible
<HebaruSan[m]>
I was responding specifically to, "so we have to do their support", just to note that, no, we don't
<VITAS[m]>
i never liked beein at the mercy of big corps and their ability to control the discourse
<Sethbyas[m]>
If someone needs help, help them
<VITAS[m]>
we are unable to in many cases
<Sethbyas[m]>
Or try to as best you can.
<VITAS[m]>
im for having a way on the site itself where people can help people
<Sethbyas[m]>
Like <span class="d-mention d-user">HebaruSan</span> Gave me the link to where I could get more help
<VITAS[m]>
atm people seeking help come here and ask about stuff only other users of that mod or maybe th emod author might know
<VITAS[m]>
its sort of the worst of all worlds
<Sethbyas[m]>
Lol
<VITAS[m]>
we protect mod authors from having to go where people nee dhelp
<VITAS[m]>
and so we are the ones approached and can only say: look somewhere else
<VITAS[m]>
solution: encourage users to exchange information about the mods on our platform and if that doesnt help they can always look somewhere else
<HebaruSan[m]>
In this instance, though?
<HebaruSan[m]>
"I want to add the FSX theme song to KSP and I have it in .ogg but it won't show up in the playlist"
<HebaruSan[m]>
You really think other users are going to know how to solve that?
<VITAS[m]>
thats how the internet works
<VITAS[m]>
other people can provide
<HebaruSan[m]>
You're kind of assuming that other users of this mod are going to be checking the SD page for this mod in case anyone else has questions
<HebaruSan[m]>
I can't imagine that would be the case
<VITAS[m]>
theres a reason you point them at the forums because its just other people knowing stuff we dont
<HebaruSan[m]>
The forums are where the mod authors provide support
<VITAS[m]>
youre arguing that forums cant work because noone ever answers a question?
<HebaruSan[m]>
If someone asked me on Reddit or via email, I would provide the same answer
<HebaruSan[m]>
What?
<VITAS[m]>
isnt it worth a test?
<Darklight[m]>
Forums are the proper place for people to go
<VITAS[m]>
so why dont we have one integrated?
<Darklight[m]>
Because the *ksp forums* are the proper place for people to go, I'd argue that the forum link should be clickable from the mod page but I think we have that already :P
<VITAS[m]>
i think you fear the potential workload of managing posts
<VITAS[m]>
because i see why testing a concept is wrong
<Darklight[m]>
I will personally ignore it and I bet most other mod authors would agree is all, but you can ask/float the idea
<VITAS[m]>
if it doesnt fly remove it
<HebaruSan[m]>
So, wasted dev effort
<VITAS[m]>
point is: i wont ask them
<HebaruSan[m]>
Great
<VITAS[m]>
i wont ask permission to ad a forum to sd
<VITAS[m]>
or change the logo
<VITAS[m]>
i ask them if its about them and their mods
<VITAS[m]>
its wasted effort if you start by thinking its wasted
<VITAS[m]>
why start anything if its useless anyways?
<VITAS[m]>
its all about the kind of reward youre expecting
<VITAS[m]>
why do you do ckan or sd or ksp?
<VITAS[m]>
not for profit
<VITAS[m]>
you have your own set of rewards why you do it
<VITAS[m]>
by adding a feature to a project that rewards you in its own ways you might get more out of it if youre prepared to invest.
<VITAS[m]>
or did everything you ever doen work out and you knew it from the beginning?
<Sethbyas[m]>
I'm just going to let yall deal with this
<VITAS[m]>
llife is trying new things
<Darklight[m]>
I would merge the thumbnail fix years before doing an SD forum ;)
<VITAS[m]>
so like 4 years ago?
<VITAS[m]>
:)
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<DasSkelett[m]>
Ugh
<RockyTV>
the point is that not many people would migrate to the SD forums
<RockyTV>
if it was done in the kerbalstuff era, maybe
<RockyTV>
it's too much effort and work for a small reward, it's not worth designing or setting up a forum for few people to use it
<VITAS[m]>
im more talking about integrating functions into the site not having a seperate one
<VITAS[m]>
i also think sd has to get more independend to survive
<VITAS[m]>
its my feeling that you guys fear it will be bad rep. i think only because ckan made a mistake in the past shouldnt hold us back from ever beeing innovative again.
<VITAS[m]>
sd wouldnt exist if we would have would have sat there saying "that'll never work"
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<VITAS[m]>
NEWS: the DC just told me that the cpu fan is defective. they need to shut down the server for 30 mins to change it. I can tell them when.
<VITAS[m]>
Any other things we want to do when i have to restart the server anyways? any suggestions for a good time to do the maintance? (THey suggest a time between 6:30-16:30 CEST)
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<Darklight[m]>
Merge the thumbnail fix >.<
<Darklight[m]>
I don't know if dasskellet or hebarusan wants to hold off on that, but I have no idea why it was never merged, I know I tested it and it worked 3 months ago
<VITAS[m]>
is it ready enough?
<Darklight[m]>
Who knows? 😛
<VITAS[m]>
i dont want prod exploding
<Darklight[m]>
It works
<VITAS[m]>
so the question is: how long do we need to confirm it
<Darklight[m]>
Normally stuff has to get through the alpha pathway first though, otherwise you have to deal with back merging
<VITAS[m]>
and no guestemates based on someones feelings :)
<Darklight[m]>
It has been broken for months it can stay broken, so no biggie, but that's why spacedocks game page looks ugly with all its black everywhere
<VITAS[m]>
i want to do the maintance this week
<RockyTV>
I can test it now and give an approval for merging
<VITAS[m]>
please do
<VITAS[m]>
ill go to the shops now :)
<RockyTV>
DasSkelett, what happens when you delete the alpha channel in a png
<RockyTV>
does it get all black or all white
<Darklight[m]>
I know it definitely works
<Darklight[m]>
But I'm not sure why it was lef topen
<Darklight[m]>
But I'm not sure why it was left open
<RockyTV>
I'm trying to figure out how the update-bg endpoint works
<RockyTV>
hm I forgot I need to have the frontend built...
<RockyTV>
nevermind, I was being dumb :P
<VITAS[m]>
arent we all :)
<RockyTV>
the auto resize didn't work
<RockyTV>
DasSkelett, I just tested, submitted a background with size 320x195 and it was resized to 320x320
<RockyTV>
nevermind
<VITAS[m]>
nevermind?
<VITAS[m]>
why?
<RockyTV>
the default config set the thumbnail size to 320x320, I thought there was no such config :P
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<VITAS[m]>
ah, yes we might want to set that to something !&.9
<VITAS[m]>
ups16:9
<VITAS[m]>
by default
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<DasSkelett[m]>
Yes, the size in the config needs to be updated.
<RockyTV>
is cropping expected?
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<DasSkelett[m]>
> The new logic ensures that the image always has the exact dimensions as set in the config.
<DasSkelett[m]>
And distortion looks bad, so cropping it is.
<DasSkelett[m]>
Also explained in the code comments.
<Darklight[m]>
I think it kept aspect ratio
<Darklight[m]>
Ah all g
<DasSkelett[m]>
It _did_, yes. My ne algorithm doesn't anymore, because it made images have very very low resolution.
<DasSkelett[m]>
Everything explained in the PR and code comments...
<VITAS[m]>
speaking of cropping: did we fix the problem with the aspect ratio in the mod header?
<VITAS[m]>
so that people actualy know what tzheir pics should look like to not getr cropped to hell
<DasSkelett[m]>
> Note that a lot of this code is likely to be removed/changed again when we split backgrounds and thumbnails into separate uploadable images in the future.
<DasSkelett[m]>
> Since this was a rather quick fix and the the above feature may take some time until it will be implemented, I decided to do it nevertheless.
<DasSkelett[m]>
For now thumbnails still get cropped out of the banner images. But at least they should look better than before.
<VITAS[m]>
dont want to split for now just wanted to change css
<VITAS[m]>
for the background from covering to something else that preserves aspect ratio and has e.g. a black bg left and right of it
<VITAS[m]>
but if we havent done it yet theres no use doing it in a hurry
<VITAS[m]>
ill put the downtime for the cpu fan on friday 15:00 cest
<VITAS[m]>
so we have max time to get stored till then
<DasSkelett[m]>
But people said they want to have them separate instead, with an option for multiple banner images, which I didn't do yet, because it needs much more UI and backend changes.
<VITAS[m]>
yes i would love to have it seperate but as a stopgap adjusting css might work
<DasSkelett[m]>
So you want to do another production upgrade then, right?
<VITAS[m]>
no i was only inquiering if such a thing would be as ready as the thumbnail generator
<VITAS[m]>
and that we can put into prod IF youre all happy with it beeing stable enough
<VITAS[m]>
if not i just let them fix the fan
<VITAS[m]>
because the server will be off and we cant deploy and fix anything on prod while they are at work for 30 mins or so
<RockyTV>
I approved the PR btw
<DasSkelett[m]>
Yep 👍 Thanks!
<VITAS[m]>
information about downtime posted on the forums
<VITAS[m]>
DasSkelett: we are +1 or +2 cest?
<VITAS[m]>
or +0
<VITAS[m]>
or time is confusing
<DasSkelett[m]>
We are exactly CEST, which is UTC+2
<VITAS[m]>
ok
<VITAS[m]>
so me not think.
<VITAS[m]>
great :D
<DasSkelett[m]>
We've got some fixes and changes lined up in alpha, but there's one with a database migration that might take very very long (as in, I have no idea how long exactly, maybe even an hour), so squishing that into a 1 hour downtime might not work.
<VITAS[m]>
no lets do that another time
<VITAS[m]>
only sure fire quick ones
<VITAS[m]>
w4e have max 20 mins to deploy and test
<RockyTV>
from experience if you have a div with fixed size you use that so the image will be cropped in the div, maintaining its aspect ratio
<DasSkelett[m]>
So what `background-size: cover` does too?
<DasSkelett[m]>
Oh, I think `object-fit` can only be used inside a `<img>`, which we don't have here.
<RockyTV>
same thing
<DasSkelett[m]>
Ahh, the banner div always has height 400px.
<DasSkelett[m]>
So in most cases users will see an aspect ratio of 1920:400 = 48:10 = 24:5 = 4.8:1
<VITAS[m]>
yes i remmeber playing with different ways to get the header working.
<VITAS[m]>
only applies to 1080p screens
<RockyTV>
maybe we should fix that to 4:1
<RockyTV>
twitch uses 4:1
<VITAS[m]>
but we have thumbnails to use
<VITAS[m]>
so 16:9 until we can split header and TN
<RockyTV>
set height to 480px then it should be good
<VITAS[m]>
why would it?
<VITAS[m]>
if its set to cover
<DasSkelett[m]>
I'm looking for a way to not set the height to an absolute value.
<DasSkelett[m]>
Rocky's speaking of the height of the containing div, not the image.
<VITAS[m]>
you have to set one of the other modes than cover
<VITAS[m]>
and use a bg color
<VITAS[m]>
to fill left/right from the image
<VITAS[m]>
i suggest black
<DasSkelett[m]>
Nope, if you use cover, the image will fill it completely
<DasSkelett[m]>
No filling needed
<RockyTV>
cover crops the image to fit the container
<VITAS[m]>
yes
<VITAS[m]>
and thats the problem
<DasSkelett[m]>
Is it?
<VITAS[m]>
because you dont know the aspect ratio of the screen
<VITAS[m]>
or resolution
<VITAS[m]>
so every hight you set on the div will cut parts of the image
<VITAS[m]>
either lewft right or top bottom
<VITAS[m]>
it will only fit with one specific screen res and aspect
<VITAS[m]>
i know this because thats how it is atm :)
<RockyTV>
nonetheless we still need to setup a good aspect ratio for the banner
<DasSkelett[m]>
It's not `cover` nor `center` nor `no-repeat` at the moment. But you are right that it will cut something off on screen ratios that the image hasn't been uploaded for.
<VITAS[m]>
yes the good aspect ratio is 16:9
<VITAS[m]>
for now
<DasSkelett[m]>
But the thing is, I did already test reducing the ratio to 16:9 some time ago, but filling the side with black or white looks sooo ugly.
<VITAS[m]>
because its the same as thumbnail
<VITAS[m]>
yes i know it looks ugly thats why we will split the images in the futrure
<VITAS[m]>
-r
<VITAS[m]>
you can pick another color if you want
<VITAS[m]>
but fromw here im standing if we want consistant headers and thumbnails without split files we have to obay 16:9
<DasSkelett[m]>
That's why I came up with moving the image down next to the links, but no one liked that.
<VITAS[m]>
do you think rearanging the page is worh it if we have a final plan in the works?
<DasSkelett[m]>
There is no single colour that look good. Image with white background: black is ugly as hell. Image with black background: white is ugly as hell.
<VITAS[m]>
we can also just leave it until we have split images ready for deployment
<DasSkelett[m]>
I mean that code already exists.
<VITAS[m]>
has been for years so wont hurt a few month
<VITAS[m]>
so bottom line: we agree its ugly ig 16:9 so we wait :)
<DasSkelett[m]>
That's why I'm going to set the above mentioned CSS properties until then. It's only 3 lines of code and already will improve the situation a lot.
<RockyTV>
sorry but I agree with DasSkelett[m]
<VITAS[m]>
if it doesnt make things worse im ok with it
<VITAS[m]>
but test it with other aspect ratio windows
<VITAS[m]>
e.g. ultra wide screen or mobile phone aspect
<VITAS[m]>
(i know sd doesnt do well with mobile but we dont want to make it worse)
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