raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<UmbralRaptop>
egg|zzz|egg: does https://i.imgur.com/qgGNwbB.jpg have anything misleading? Like telling the player to select tanks instead of engines?
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: what's a cancellation group
<egg|zzz|egg>
what's a cancellation sequence
<egg|zzz|egg>
why is it talking about cancellation
<UmbralRaptop>
It's for the "abort" action group
<egg|zzz|egg>
... okay
<UmbralRaptop>
Incidentally, this is the stock advanced construction tutorial.
<egg|zzz|egg>
it uses the word "découpler" a lot instead of "larguer" which feels really weird
<egg|zzz|egg>
but it might be par for the course with the original using "decouple" instead of "jettison"
<egg|zzz|egg>
but somehow "découpler" feel much weirder to me than "decouple"
<egg|zzz|egg>
*shrug*
<UmbralRaptop>
A player misunderstood shutting down engines as cutting fuel flow to tanks, and I'm borrowing you to see if that's a reasonable mistake >_>;;
<UmbralRaptop>
eggsplosive bolts
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: well it says "cut"
<egg|zzz|egg>
it refers to a functionality called "cut", and tells you to use that
<egg|zzz|egg>
I could read that as "cut the fuel lines" or "cut the throttle" or "cut the mistranslations"
<UmbralRaptop>
Ah
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: now, in the last paragraph it clarifies itself
<egg|zzz|egg>
because it says the liquid ergol engines will cut themselves, and there it's obvious that it's in the cut-the-power sense
<egg|zzz|egg>
actually
<egg|zzz|egg>
even there you might read it as cut themselves from the rest of the system?
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: but the issue isn't in this message basically
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's in the engines using the word "Cut" for "shut down"
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: honestly the entire thing is a hot mess of terrible translation
<egg|zzz|egg>
découpler should probably be séparer in general, it just feels weird
<egg|zzz|egg>
cancellation for abort is WTF
<egg|zzz|egg>
well
<egg|zzz|egg>
i guess there isn't a word that conveys nonrecoverable emergency cancellation nicely here
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: e.g. launch abort/escape systems are called "saving towers" in french (same construct as lifeboat, but tower instead of boat)
<egg|zzz|egg>
no reference to the launch being done something about
<UmbralRaptop>
Obviously we should just use transliterated russian.
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: okay there is one word that is actually used by arianespace
<egg|zzz|egg>
but "groupe d'avortement de lancement" still sounds very weird
<UmbralRaptop>
hrm
<egg|zzz|egg>
"launch abortion group" O_o
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: if you can go with quotes, ["aborted launch" group] might work
<egg|zzz|egg>
something like groupe « lancement avorté » (or « tir avorté », but then you run into the issue of having to rewrite quite a bit of UI to s/lancement/tir/ for terminology consistency)
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: but then it quickly gets awkward if you quote
UmbralRaptor has joined #kspacademia
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptop: the best would probably be "groupe d'annulation de lancement", no that it's explicit that it's about cancelling the launch, not the engines or whatever
<egg|zzz|egg>
but space
<egg|zzz|egg>
groupe d'annulation du lancement, might as well invest in an article
<UmbralRaptor>
Space is hard. Especially when you need to properly internationalize it.
<egg|zzz|egg>
i18n is hard
UmbralRaptop has quit [Ping timeout: 202 seconds]
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: yikes, I had focused on the von kerman dialog box, but the bar on the left is really bad
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: in a UI, on its own, Cancel means a very specific thing
<egg|zzz|egg>
and that's not this one
<UmbralRaptor>
blarg
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: well, Cancel or Undo
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's a word at the intersection of those two :D
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: so this should say "Annulation lancement" or something (except that's too long so you'll end up with "Annul. lanc." which quickly gets confusing
<egg|zzz|egg>
s/lancement/tir/ would gain some space :D
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: space french
<bofh>
egg|zzz|egg: yeah I saw, still not sure why "cancellation" for abort is weird, that's what I'd translate "launch abort" as...
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: because without context, cancel, in a UI, means something
<egg|zzz|egg>
if I see a cancel button somewhere, I don't think it's going to mean "things that happen on launch abort"
<egg|zzz|egg>
whereas if i see an abort button and it's not abort/retry/ignore and it's KSP, i'm more likely to interpret "abort" correctly
<bofh>
I mean fair, but what would be a *better* translation of "abort" then in the context of scrubbing a launch?
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: so "annulation" also has a sort of "softer" feeling to it, as in "oh we've decided to call it off", rather than "everything is on fire"; the arianespace « tir avorté » doesn't have this connotation for instance
<bofh>
I mean that's literally the opposite of what I'd expect to be desired, generally launches are scrubbed b/c if they don't things will *be* on fire
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: we're talking launch abort action group
<egg|zzz|egg>
i.e. "fire off the LES"
<egg|zzz|egg>
the "fire off the LES" button shouldn't be labeled "cancel"
<egg|zzz|egg>
big red button on yellow stripes: [ CANCEL ]
<UmbralRaptor>
Yeah, KSP would want the "everything is on fire"
<egg|zzz|egg>
other big red button on yellow stripes [ OK ]
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: i.e. abort in the sense of abort-implies-failure
<egg|zzz|egg>
not retriable abort
<egg|zzz|egg>
(which might be called hold or scrub in en i guess)
<bofh>
Scrub is the term I usually hear used
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: e.g. you wouldn't say Soyouz МС-10 was cancelled
<egg|zzz|egg>
it is techniacally true that at some point the flight computer elected to cancel the mission
<egg|zzz|egg>
you would not call this the launch cancellation sequence of a союуз ροχκετ
<egg|zzz|egg>
rocket even
<egg|zzz|egg>
*flight manual*: to cancel a scheduled launch: 1. fire the explosive bolts retaining the spacecraft to the launcher, fire the launch escape tower, open the grid fins
<bofh>
rofl ροχκετ
<bofh>
Also huh.
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: i mean, would you call that a launch cancellation
<egg|zzz|egg>
in en
<bofh>
I'd call that a mission abort
<bofh>
not a launch abort, since there is no possible way to rerun the launch (since the craft is kind of. well. yeah).
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: well the launch abort system makes the launch unretriable
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's called launch abort
<bofh>
OH okay I see what you're getting at
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: if it were called "launch cancellation system" it would be weird
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: and with the UI-specific semantics of that word, if you pressed a "cancel" button to abort your launch and fire the LES, it would be *very* weird
<egg|zzz|egg>
"Piloting is calm, on-board parameters are nominal" [OK] [Cancel]
<bofh>
rofl
<UmbralRaptor>
[Nominal] [Abort]
<bofh>
I mean those ARE basically the two states it seems.
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: I mean, Abort/Retry/Ignore seems to be appropriate here
<bofh>
Point.
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: UmbralRaptor: unrelated: the idea of a zonal-only selenopotential seems conceptually weird
<egg|zzz|egg>
lathed-turned moon
<UmbralRaptor>
hah
<egg|zzz|egg>
s/thed/the/
<bofh>
egg|zzz|egg: I mean a zonal-only selenopotential is sufficient for stable orbits, no?
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: it's complicated
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: it tends to have the right secular behaviour wrt to stability, so won't generally turn an unstable orbit into a stable one and vice-versa
<egg|zzz|egg>
but short-period perturbations will be massively different
<egg|zzz|egg>
including short-period oscillations of the eggscentricity
<egg|zzz|egg>
and if the eggscentricity oscillates too much on a low orbit, you might be faced with non-gravitational forces that very much perturb your orbit and your structural integrity
<egg|zzz|egg>
and obviously it's not enough for RGT orbits
<bofh>
I mean yes, but do short-period perturbations matter if you're not trying to land or escape the selenopotential?
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: well yes, if you're also not trying to lithobrake
<egg|zzz|egg>
or trying to RGT for ground coverage reasons or whatever
<egg|zzz|egg>
;rpn 305 2 * 60 /
<kmath>
egg|zzz|egg: 10.166666666666667
<bofh>
I do not recommend unintentionally lithobraking, fwiw.
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: yes, and eggscentricities oscillating on low orbits will do that to you
<egg|zzz|egg>
so you need to take that into account
<egg|zzz|egg>
even though the stability is often captured just by the lathe-turned selenopotential, there's a ground
_whitelogger has joined #kspacademia
<UmbralRaptor>
Lathe turned Laythe when?
egg|zzz|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
<bofh>
UmbralRaptor: ...I was *just* about to make that pun, lol.
<UmbralRaptor>
:p
egg|cell|egg has joined #kspacademia
UmbralRaptor has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
UmbralRaptop has joined #kspacademia
_whitelogger has joined #kspacademia
_whitelogger has joined #kspacademia
_whitelogger has joined #kspacademia
<UmbralRaptop>
IKAROS (Interplanetary Kite-craft Accelerated by Radiation of the Sun)
<kmath>
<✔Alex_Parker> We’ve now passed the point where, even if we burned all the remaining fuel on board, New Horizons could not execute a lithobraking maneuver.
<kmath>
<whitequark> true fact: if you email me to say that some code i wrote doesn't work due to "compile errors" and do not state the… https://t.co/62FNsR9KtN