raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<SnoopJeDi> I hated the semantic whitespace for years, but I've turned a corner and think it's fantastic now
<SnoopJeDi> (once I realized it makes brace-style arguments literally not possible)
<egg|zzz|egg> in deed,the p rop er attitude to wa rdswh ite s p a c eandca Se isTh e FOr trAn OnE
<whitequark> egg are you high
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<UmbralRaptor> Zürich is pretty low altitude, though
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: not that i know of
* UmbralRaptor is of the opinion that Python's whitespace rules improve readability, so they have clear value!
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: i mean https://twitter.com/mnxmnkmnd/status/850765704940933120 but I didn't have that much tbh
<kmath> <mnxmnkmnd> Wow a proper french meal involves... quite a lot of wine...
<mofh> whitequark: also the joke is that Fortran's approach to whitespace is the lexer just tosses out most of it.
<SnoopJeDi> so uh interestingly
<SnoopJeDi> so does Python's?
<SnoopJeDi> (sometimes)
<egg|zzz|egg> A L S Oi tI Sc a s eI n s e n s i t i v e
<SnoopJeDi> `a = [1,2,3]; print(a [0])` is perfectly legal and meaningful so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: no but that's between tokens
<SnoopJeDi> it is at least unambiguous which I guess is the only property that matters
<SnoopJeDi> egg|zzz|egg, right I know it's not the same thing
<egg|zzz|egg> the point is that F O R M A T is a perfectly valid way to write a format statement
<SnoopJeDi> I'm familiar
<mofh> as is F o R MaT
<egg|zzz|egg> or more typically GO TO, GOTO, ENDDO, END DO are both things
<whitequark> egg|zzz|egg: wait did you meet mnx
<SnoopJeDi> It's not what I'd call sensible in a modern context, but I kinda understand from a historical perspective?
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: sadly I have not
<SnoopJeDi> I dunno much of anything about the language's history
<SnoopJeDi> Except that it grew a bunch of creature comforts without changing drastically
<SnoopJeDi> (fsvo "drastic")
<egg|zzz|egg> I feel like you are trying to read far too much into this discussion of FORTRAN
<SnoopJeDi> :|
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: otoh I did have some pretty nice rioja with the beef
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: also, arithmetic IF best IF
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: also I am confused by mnxmnkmnd's many names
<egg> this is a good page
<whitequark> yes
<mofh> 00:13:22 < egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: also, arithmetic IF best IF
<mofh> Agreed.
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: similarly, 2HHI best string literal,
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: hm, can you put a space between the number and the H
<SnoopJeDi> 2HHI?
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Hollerith constant | "Hollerith constants, named in honor of Herman Hollerith, were used in early FORTRAN programs to allow manipulation of character data.Early FORTRAN had no CHARACTER data type, only numeric types. In order to perform character manipulation, characters needed to be placed into numeric variables using..."
* egg|zzz|egg stares at the examples section
<egg|zzz|egg> 4HO WO
<egg|zzz|egg> 11HWHAT'S THIS
<SnoopJeDi> makes sense
<egg|zzz|egg> мяу
<egg|zzz|egg> https://twitter.com/slava_pestov/status/1142954650901065733 i am reminded of that forth interpreter for lego rcx
<kmath> <slava_pestov> @johnregehr @stephentyrone @jfbastien @clattner_llvm The Forth community has more implementations than programmers… https://t.co/Kl0grJwVYT
<SnoopJeDi> I had no idea there was one but that tickles me. NQC was my first 'real' language.
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<SnoopJeDi> (not that BASIC wasn't real, but I never wrote any programs of complexity worth mentioning)
<egg|zzz|egg> pbForth
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<egg|zzz|egg> yeah I remember NQC
<SnoopJeDi> I grew bored with the visual programming interface fast, Dad hooked me up with the relevant O'Reilly book, and my brain hasn't been the same since.
<egg|zzz|egg> iirc NQC was for the native firmware, whereas pbForth required flashing a new one (over IR, yay)
<SnoopJeDi> yea I only ever did stuff with native
<SnoopJeDi> I do vaguely recall some bizarre thing where you spoke assembler to it over the IR via the COM port, but my understanding of computers was not well-developed enough for "look everything you're doing is basically feeding a bunch of numbers to this machine anyway"
<SnoopJeDi> it was beyond my grasp
<whitequark> oh god nqc
<SnoopJeDi> omg it *was* pbFORTH
<SnoopJeDi> no wonder it didn't stick
<SnoopJeDi> found a copy of the book on libgen because it was driving me a little crazy to have a fuzzy remembrance of it
<egg> whitequark: i remember phl and i wrote a barcode reader (interleaved 2-of-5) in nqc
<egg> hm, since the source is all in english and has dates going back to 2004 it's probably mostly phl
<egg> oh there's some code in french earlier on that also seems to be doing barcode things (but it's very poorly commented)
<whitequark> mmm
<egg|zzz|egg> e = 0.000658301 km (from integrated osculating a & ℓ)
<egg|zzz|egg> wtf
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: I get eggsactly the same value for e if I use ſ_ℓ_dt instead of ſ_b_dt?
<egg|zzz|egg> uh ignore the km here
<whitequark> egg|zzz|egg: i have no idea lmao
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: arguably a lot of things are in weird places in these animals
* UmbralRaptor misread the context, and assumed rectum as in Semilatus rectum
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: well, soles are sort of ellipsoidal
<UmbralRaptor> hm
<UmbralRaptor> osculating sole
<egg|zzz|egg> e = 0.000600369 km (from integrated osculating a & r_pe) blaargh
<egg|zzz|egg> also I should remove that "km" from the trace, wtf
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: why does mean e behave so differently from mean a anyway
<egg|zzz|egg> also is there a way to integrate something to get a sensible mean e :-/
<egg|zzz|egg> how is it 4 in the morning
<SnoopJeDi> !how
<galois> SnoopJeDi: 464
<egg|zzz|egg> um
<egg|zzz|egg> !wat
<galois> egg|zzz|egg: I only know about subway subs
<SnoopJeDi> hahah I forgot that was still in there
<SnoopJeDi> another instance has !what but it only responded to "!what is the subway sub of the day" or something
<SnoopJeDi> and I guess I never removed it
<SnoopJeDi> !what is the subway sub of the day
<galois> SnoopJeDi: The Subway sub of the day is Meatball Marinara
<SnoopJeDi> good to know I guess
<SnoopJeDi> don't even know if they still *do* that
<egg|zzz|egg> in case someone was wondering what happens with exotic means:
<egg|zzz|egg> e = 0.000540157 (from integrated log osculating e)
<egg|zzz|egg> e = 0.000482358 (from integrated inverse osculating e)
<egg|zzz|egg> (recall that a sensible mean e here should be 0.000 095)
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<egg> !wpn mofh, whitequark, et al.
* galois gives mofh, whitequark, et al. a yttrium holmium integral
<UmbralRaptor> median osculating e?
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: nah the mean e in that eggsample is smaller than all osculating e
<UmbralRaptor> ah
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: also the mean a is smaller than all distances from the geocentre, but that can be achieved by just averaging the osculating a
<egg|zzz|egg> circular orbits are weird
<egg> !wpn mofh
* galois gives mofh a copper linac
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<mofh> !wpn egg
* galois gives egg a einsteinium stratocumulus Paris-Brest
<mofh> mm, tasty
<mofh> I sould make some crème pâtissière
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<egg> mofh: yes but lighten it with butter,
<mofh> egg: yes ofc,
<mofh> egg: https://mobile.twitter.com/MeteoMontsouris/status/1143175703531282437 I swear this is the weather equivalent of Hand With Middle Finger Extended
<kmath> https://twitter.com/MeteoMontsouris/status/1143175703531282437 <MeteoMontsouris> À 17 h, il fait 31.1 °C, légère brise, humidité à 52%, pas de pluie. +3.2 °C qu’hier à la même heure. https://t.co/xSh1MHldkl
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* UmbralRaptor thought 30+ ℃ and 50+% humidity was just called "summer"?
* egg|zzz|egg stares at ℃
<kmath> <whitequark> @bofh453 ok but it uses the deprecated ℃ and ℉ characters so it's actually terrible.
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: I wonder where the order y,x of the 2-parameter arctangent comes from
<egg|zzz|egg> in a vacuum it's silly (and e.g. Mathematica does x,y, so it's not quite universal), is it just because y/x?
<mofh> pretty sure, yeah.
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh_: !!!!! e = 9.70138e-05 (from integrated eccentricity vector)
<egg|zzz|egg> is that the solution?!
<mofh> WTF I WAS NOT EGGSPECTING THAT TO WORK???
<egg|zzz|egg> also is that a way to get a value for ω
<egg|zzz|egg> that's pretty close to 9,5⏨-5 in any case
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: also ⏨ best eggpsonent character
<egg|zzz|egg> all hail ГОСТ 10859
<egg|zzz|egg> also ALGOL
<egg|zzz|egg> !u ⏨
<galois> ⏨: U+23e8 DECIMAL EXPONENT SYMBOL
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: and ω = 88.2448 (from integrated eccentricity vector), so that might even be viable? though that one has secular variation so this would have to be sliced by revolution and the secular variation eggstracted or something
<egg|zzz|egg> compare ω = +89.64(13)° from the non-spurious perigees
<egg|zzz|egg> also 81.3 from Spiridonova et al. (and we're probably not looking at the same time period so I can believe that this could have varied)
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: so averaging a, e cos ω, e sin ω works well; i works decently, but at this point I'm wondering whether equinoctial elements might not be more appropriate
<egg|zzz|egg> that would then be a, e cos ϖ, e sin ϖ, tg (i/2) cos Ω, tg (i/2) sin Ω
<egg|zzz|egg> that's ill-behaved for retrograde orbits though
<kmath> <rogerclark> these two activities produce exactly the same conscious experience: ⏎ - C++ template metaprogramming ⏎ - doing mushrooms at OfficeMax
<mofh> hrm
<kmath> <noggin143> @CERN Come and see us on September 14th/15th 2019 .. registration opens on 26th June. ⏎ ⏎ https://t.co/5AHmzYB545
<mofh> why are equinoctal elements ill-behaved for retrograde orbits despite being well-behaved for prograde ones?
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: tg (i/2)
<egg|zzz|egg> retrograde equatorial
<egg|zzz|egg> apparently the standard procedure is to just use cotg for retrograde orbits
<egg|zzz|egg> for polar orbits both choices (tg and cotg) will be similarly well-behaved so that it doesn't matter
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<egg|zzz|egg> meow
<mofh> isn't cotg just 1/tg?
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh_: yes
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: there are also singularity-free elements by Cohen and Hubbard
<mofh> oh?
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<egg> mofh: they don't lend themselves well to averaging though tbh
<egg|zzz|egg> (because the anomaly gets incorporated into all elements which is nasty)
<mofh> ahhh. yeah, that sounds vile.
<egg> whitequark: are the cats pollinating your laptop,
<whitequark> yes
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2220: Rewrite JacobiSNCNDNReduced - https://git.io/fjwyG
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2220 commit - https://git.io/fjrIi
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2220 commit - https://git.io/fjrIP
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2220 commit - https://git.io/fjrIX
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2220: Rewrite JacobiSNCNDNReduced - https://git.io/fjwyG
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: do you happen to have catpics,
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: you might be confused in your translations, that's an attribution not a statement... http://www.libertepolitique.com/Actualite/Decryptage/700-000-morts-lors-des-canicules-de-1718-1719
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3707/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2220 commit - https://git.io/fjrI7
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2220 commit - https://git.io/fjrI5
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2220 commit - https://git.io/fjrId
<mofh> egg|zzz|egg: ahh, that did feel a *bit* too political for that account
<SnoopJeDi> !wpn -add:adj pollinating
<galois> Added adj 'pollinating'
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2220: Rewrite JacobiSNCNDNReduced - https://git.io/fjwyG
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3708/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3708/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2220: Rewrite JacobiSNCNDNReduced - https://git.io/fjwyG
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy pushed 7 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] https://git.io/fjrL4
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy 5a7d3e1 - Rewrite, but I broke it.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy a903ff1 - Fixed a few problems, but still broken.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy d1d60dd - It works.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] ... and 4 more commits.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2221: Rewrite JacobiSNCNDN - https://git.io/fjrLu
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3709/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2221: Rewrite JacobiSNCNDN - https://git.io/fjrLu
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3710/
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3710/
<mofh> egg: https://twitter.com/bofh453/status/1143269005953785858 my gods what the actual fuck
<kmath> <bofh453> WTF: the " What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets." from Castlevania: Symphony of the Night EN is actual… https://t.co/58lHxHpsVL
<egg|zzz|egg> ня
<egg|zzz|egg> !choose mean elements|sleep
<galois> egg|zzz|egg: Your options: mean elements, sleep. My choice: mean elements
<egg|zzz|egg> ;choose mean elements|sleep
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: mean elements
<egg|zzz|egg> but i am tired
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<egg|cell|egg> Mofh: stack
<egg|cell|egg> 喵
<egg|cell|egg> 喵!
<mofh> egg|cell|egg: miaou
<egg|cell|egg> Mofh: quotes
<egg|cell|egg> Mofh: ksp
<egg|cell|egg> Etc
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] gbui starred Principia - https://git.io/fjRWQ
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