UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<raptop>
!8 eat?
<galois>
raptop: yes
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<WeylandsWings>
raptop: nice and short abstract there
<raptop>
Yeah. Also, the part about this beam destroying the people possessing the nukes adds some punch
<WeylandsWings>
i mean is there much that could withstand a beam of that strength?
<raptop>
I'd assume not really, but once you're in an energy range where neutrinos have a meaningful cross section, I have no intuition
<WeylandsWings>
or deep tethers with motors on them
<SnoopJeDi>
nothing you could sit into the floor
<SnoopJeDi>
even if you had a tether that long I mean
<WeylandsWings>
afterall that is what some of the undersea floating "bridge" designs have proposed
<raptop>
aaaaaa
<SnoopJeDi>
anyway the core of the idea is FCC-hh is a bad idea
<raptop>
please do not make a fail-deadly bridge
<SnoopJeDi>
and will never in a million years get even close to funded
<SnoopJeDi>
because like
<SnoopJeDi>
the raw material for the dipoles alone would cost what the finished cost of the LHC dipoles was
<raptop>
FCC-hh? hadron-hadron
<SnoopJeDi>
and the multiplier for those was ~4 X
<raptop>
ow
<SnoopJeDi>
yea, I assume that's still the name, I have been out of touch for half a year for obvious reasons
<SnoopJeDi>
minimum nominal field that can do it is 18 T
<SnoopJeDi>
realistic is 20 T
<WeylandsWings>
raptop: i mean if the thethers break the "bridges" were designed to be slightly bouyant so the cars with the dead people inside would float to the surface
<SnoopJeDi>
so FCC-hh will just not be happening unless BSCCO and/or other HTS improve a lot in the next ~decade
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJeDi: so what is the field strength in the LHC?
<SnoopJeDi>
but probably won't be happening even if the miraculous happens
<SnoopJeDi>
WeylandsWings, 7 T
<SnoopJeDi>
maybe a bit higher, 8 T
<SnoopJeDi>
but certainly we're talking about at least a factor of two, and this does not even begin to get into the complexities here
<SnoopJeDi>
to build that you're probably operating with a much smaller margin from the critical surface
<WeylandsWings>
So NASA has run sims that say a 4 T field at L1 of the Sun-Mars system could create a magnetotail that would protect the martian atmosphere, why does NASA think it will be 2050 to achieve it if we can create 8 T on earth already?
<SnoopJeDi>
they have?
<SnoopJeDi>
shoot, 4 T is practically home depot level of superconductor
<WeylandsWings>
no which is why i put quotes around paper
<SnoopJeDi>
I mean it's basically at Kardashev level I, but still
<WeylandsWings>
I mean to me inflatable structure implies something that is maybe 100-200 m in diameter
<WeylandsWings>
if they had said unfoldable or buildbale i would think it would need to be a lot bigger than that
<SnoopJeDi>
I'm assuming the bubble in the solar wind needs to be about Mars-sized
<SnoopJeDi>
or Mars is gonna have atmosphere-chan ablated
<WeylandsWings>
but inflatables have issues if you get might larger than that from my understanding
<SnoopJeDi>
so 100-200 m ain't producing a bubble that big
<SnoopJeDi>
also why does galois not have opinions about these links hm
<WeylandsWings>
could you trade a smaller structure for increasing field strength?
<SnoopJeDi>
sure of course, but dipoles go like 1/r³ soooooo
<WeylandsWings>
and which power would that tradeoff have with it? a ^2 or a ^4th?
<SnoopJeDi>
see above
<WeylandsWings>
ah
<SnoopJeDi>
I mean this is assuming we aren't also gonna send out a Mars-sized iron yoke to go with it lmao
<WeylandsWings>
damn E&M and their powers
<SnoopJeDi>
man that yoke would have to be long, too
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJeDi: i figured you would need some always on Ion propulsion probably VASMIR-like to ballance the forces
<SnoopJeDi>
which would probably be very self-defeating because then you'd have a tube from the Sun to Mars
<SnoopJeDi>
(probably not *that* long, but still)
<SnoopJeDi>
WeylandsWings, yea, and you're sitting on the really bad dipole instability too
<SnoopJeDi>
I would imagine you'd probably try to do some kind of wacky levitron thing instead to get a small region of negative feedback
<SnoopJeDi>
or yea hell just put ion thrusters on it
<WeylandsWings>
maybe that is why a larger ring could help, mount RCS on the outter edge?
<SnoopJeDi>
yea, longer lever arm
<WeylandsWings>
to prevent flipping?
<SnoopJeDi>
but again, we're talking about a big boi
<SnoopJeDi>
so "outer edge" is like, half a planet away :P
<WeylandsWings>
you see i dont think the paper would be published if it needed an inflatable ring the size of mars to do it
<WeylandsWings>
because an "inflatable" ring that size is probably a LOT further away than 2050
<SnoopJeDi>
they might invoke tooth-fairy grade fields then
<WeylandsWings>
?
<SnoopJeDi>
WeylandsWings, TANSTAAFL, that flux has to come from *somewhere*
<SnoopJeDi>
it's the law
<WeylandsWings>
TANSTAAFL?
<SnoopJeDi>
there ain't no such thing as a free lunch
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJeDi: fair warning, it took me 3 times to pass Physics 3 (E&M) and i STILL dont really understand it
<SnoopJeDi>
WeylandsWings, you're comfortable with the idea that the field lines are strictly closed though, right?
<WeylandsWings>
yes
<SnoopJeDi>
then that's all you need
<WeylandsWings>
...
<SnoopJeDi>
if they're so-and-so density at Mars-scale
<SnoopJeDi>
then either they're dense as frick near the center or it's probably a gigantic solenoid
<WeylandsWings>
sure i get the first part (not the solenoid part)
<SnoopJeDi>
oh that's just because they're simple magnets
<WeylandsWings>
but how I read the paper is that it is a 1-2 T field at the l1 point
<SnoopJeDi>
maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<SnoopJeDi>
it would help to see more than a concept
<SnoopJeDi>
since that looks more like a press release announcing intent to study
<WeylandsWings>
because if it is at the L1 point couldnt the ring be much smaller?
* WeylandsWings
considers emailing the authors
<SnoopJeDi>
WeylandsWings, if it's changing $small_volume at L1, how does it keep all solar wind from reaching Mars?
<SnoopJeDi>
like from a strictly fluid dynamics point of view
<WeylandsWings>
that i dont know, maybe they count on an interaction with mars own mag field and this is just helping it?
<SnoopJeDi>
hmmm or maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way
<WeylandsWings>
in this case you have 3 fields you need to model the interactions of , the Suns, Mars, SC
<SnoopJeDi>
maybe it's more correct to think of a shock cone extending all the way to Mars
<SnoopJeDi>
in which case ~100 m probably buys you a lot because avg distance from L1 to Mars is "pretty dern far"
<WeylandsWings>
they talk about the magneto tail extending to mars from L1
<SnoopJeDi>
yea I think I was reading too much into that concept figure and then getting carried away with high-concept sci-fi
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<WeylandsWings>
because if you are making something as big as mars why not just build a low orbiting conductor ring and charge that thing up... need about the same amount of material either way
<SnoopJeDi>
I dunno enough about solar magnetic structure to understand the rest, but creating a sheath does seem fairly sane because the shock can just be bigger further away from the perturbation
<WeylandsWings>
because if you do that, and drop a comet or two (or a couple (hundred) nukes) you could get a lot closer to a habitable planet
<SnoopJeDi>
what's all the fuss
<SnoopJeDi>
just paint the ice caps black :)
<WeylandsWings>
plus then Mars missions dont have the massively increased cancer risk
<WeylandsWings>
this helps keep the atmo from leaving however you want to generate it
<WeylandsWings>
MAVEN has said that the solar wind removes like .1 kg/day IIRC
<SnoopJeDi>
suffice to say anybody who knows their Mars understand this premise, yes
<WeylandsWings>
i mean i guess it is a safe assumption that most of us in here understand that
<WeylandsWings>
but others might not
<WeylandsWings>
(or people who are too afraid to speak up and ask)
* SnoopJeDi
nods
<SnoopJeDi>
that said, this is still not a volume to sniff at, haha
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJeDi: one thing that i am a bit curious about is the solar wind angle because of the parker spiral, because L1 is directly infront of mars how would the angle of incidence come into play with this artificial magnetosphere and magnetotail
<galois>
[WIKIPEDIA] Compact Muon Solenoid#/media/File:CMS Under Construction Apr 05.jpg | "The Compact Muon Solenoid (CMS) experiment is one of two large general-purpose particle physics detectors built on the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN in Switzerland and France. The goal of CMS experiment is to investigate a wide range of physics, including the search for the Higgs boson, extra..."
<WeylandsWings>
how does CMS compare to ATLAS
<SnoopJeDi>
bout the same
<SnoopJeDi>
surprisingly ATLAS is a little slimmer, 25 m diameter apparently
<WeylandsWings>
okay what the hell is a Teslameter?
<SnoopJeDi>
an integral measure of applied field
<SnoopJeDi>
at least in the contexts I see it
<SnoopJeDi>
when you do magnetic optics you pretend the magnets are infinitely thin and deliver focusing of so-and-so T*m right in one spot, but in reality this is integral over the length of a magnet
<SnoopJeDi>
(and it turns out "thin" works up to very lorge magnets and there are good and obvious tricks to do it right anyway)
<WeylandsWings>
in a Cylindircal torroidal magnet which direction is collapsed? the thickness or length?
<SnoopJeDi>
cylindrical toroidal seems to be directly contradicting itself
<SnoopJeDi>
but if you mean a cylinder, the length
<WeylandsWings>
i mean a cylinder that has a cylindrical hole through the center whereas a torrid to me is a donut (ie a vertical slice has the shape of a circle and where the horizontal slice is how you slice a bagel)
<WeylandsWings>
now i want a nice bagel with cream cheese
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<raptop>
bagels as a reward for solving jackson problems
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<kmath>
<karynotype> I laugh every time I see someone advertising for a “motivated” postdoc—like, seriously? Why would anyone unmotivate… https://t.co/pjrUJxH9tt
<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn -add:adj tenured
<galois>
Entry already exists!
<raptop>
!wpn -add:adj funded
<galois>
Entry already exists!
<raptop>
!wpn -add:adj unfunded
<galois>
Added adj 'unfunded'
<raptop>
!wpn -add:wpn grant
<galois>
Added wpn 'grant'
<raptop>
!wpn -add:wpn scholarship
<galois>
Entry already exists!
<raptop>
!wpn -add:wpn loan
<galois>
Added wpn 'loan'
<raptop>
!wpn -add:adj loaned
<galois>
Added adj 'loaned'
<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn -add:wpn fellowship
<galois>
Entry already exists!
<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn -add:adj service
<galois>
Added adj 'service'
<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn -add:adj aftermarket
<galois>
Added adj 'aftermarket'
<raptop>
!wpn -add:wpn service
<galois>
Added wpn 'service'
<raptop>
!wpn -add:adj self
<galois>
Added adj 'self'
<raptop>
!wpn -add:adj full
<galois>
Added adj 'full'
<raptop>
!wpn -add:adj partial
<galois>
Entry already exists!
<raptop>
!wpn -add:wpn debt
<galois>
Added wpn 'debt'
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<SnoopJeDi>
oof
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<raptop_>
!8 Do fluxions go brrrr?
<galois>
raptop_: no
<raptop_>
!8 Does the Dirac delta go brrrr?
<galois>
raptop_: yes
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<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn -add:wpn <br/>
<galois>
Added wpn '<br/>'
<raptop_>
ramping up qual stuyding, may be asking QM and E&M questions in the coming weeks
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<egg|anbo|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* galois
gives whitequark a closed argon loop with a kaon attachment
<whitequark>
nice
<SnoopJeDi>
nice
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<raptop>
"The Christine Mirzayan Science and Technology Policy Graduate Fellowship Program is a full-time hands-on training and educational program that provides early career individuals with the opportunity to spend 12 weeks at the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine in Washington, DC learning about science and technology policy and the role that scientists and engineers play in advising
<raptop>
the nation."
<raptop>
I would say none, but see the whole "masks don't work" thing
<WeylandsWings>
or how states are reopening when they shouldnt
<raptop>
klasdflkjsdfjlksdfkljdfsalkj;ag
* raptop
hopes that it's practical to socially distance until after getting the vaccine
<raptop>
Yes, I'm aware that this means well into 2022 in the pessimistic case
<whitequark>
you: "socially distancing" for pandemic
<whitequark>
me: "just being alone"
<raptop>
Fortunately the internet exists
<raptop>
(Also, have there been any studies on if raccoons can get SARS2?)
<whitequark>
internet doesn't fucking help
<whitequark>
i mean, it helps me survive, i would prefer it not to