egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao->
⟨Sumguy⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ When operating in tank-fed mode after […] ⮪ Mb. I thought it drew from the main tank.
<queqiao->
⟨Sumguy⟩ What used all horizontal?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ lpg by the way, sichelgaita made a change to add a ZWSP, so this will be fixed in the next release (the bridge was down so the PRs did not get cross-posted here…)
_whitelogger has joined #principia
<queqiao->
⟨bill_billy_lee⟩ ⟪lpg⟫ (I'm a dirty cheater and I _can_ […] ⮪ how, i want this power
<_whitenotifier-7bc1>
[Principia] pleroy closed issue #3471: Flight plan rendering length in target reference frame is limited by current vessel prediction settings, not just plan length - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3471
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Anyone know how to handle translations? Especially for something like, say, Russian, where it uses a different character set?
<queqiao->
What do I translate, what do I transliterate, what do I leave alone?
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Leaving proper names and stuff alone _feels_ right, then just translate stuff that can be properly translated (So, "Aerojet" stays as Aerojet, but "Jet Propulsion Laboratory" becomes "Лаборатория реактивного движения (JPL)")
<queqiao->
⟨QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟩ I'd try to find literature and do what they did for each name.
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ On the other hand, broad transliteration is already what we do. The english translations have "RKK Energia", not "РКК Энергия"
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ ⟪QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟫ I'd try to find literature and do what […] ⮪ Wikipedia is completely inconsistent (Aerojet is left in latin characters, Bell Aircraft is transliterated)
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ And on the English side, I've seen official documents refer to Soviet/Russian companies in Cyrillic, transliterated into latin characters, and translated
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Aérospatiale is left as Aérospatiale in English wikipedia, but translated in Russian wikipedia
<queqiao->
⟨QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟩ Here's a recent short article on the subject of translating vs transliterating names from the perspective of a Russian immigrant.
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ It ls better not to translate company/organisation names, it only creates confusion
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ It ls better not to translate […] ⮪ That implies I need to go untransliterate Russian companies in RO then
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ No, i mean, not translate to russian
<queqiao->
⟨QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟩ It's really inconsistent and you should just do what everybody else does for each name to keep down the confusion.
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ Also transliteration is ok, translation not so much
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ ⟪QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟫ It's really inconsistent and you should […] ⮪ Nobody else does it consistently either. That's the issue
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ I'm in #principia in the hopes egg can point me at a style guide?
<queqiao->
⟨QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ Nobody else does it consistently […] ⮪ I assume for most names it should be internally fairly consistent, just not between different names.
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ Wikipedia is completely inconsistent […] ⮪ Bell us a good example. Its transliterated in the Russian wikipedia exactly once, then its just written Bell in English. I suppose that the only purpose of the transliteration was to show how it should be pronounced, but its not something that is done all the time.
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Uhhhh Basila , any opinion on the above topic?
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ Hmm, actually, bell is not transliterated exactly once in that wikipedia article, there are other cases of transliteration... Not consistent
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ or vevladdd 🇺🇦 , Ukrainian uses a Cyrillic alphabet too, right?
<raptop>
Yeah, though I think with a few more diacritics
<queqiao->
⟨vevladdd 🇺🇦⟩ Yes
<raptop>
(Ditto Bulgarian)
<queqiao->
⟨vevladdd 🇺🇦⟩ Tho it's a little bit different from the russian one
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Close enough, the transliteration issue still stands
<queqiao->
⟨Vlood⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ Hmm. We've got native Russian speakers […] ⮪ fwiw, native speaker does not an expert in localisation make
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Would it look more proper to leave Foreign corporation names as is for a translation to Cyrillic, or should they be transliterated into Cyrillic
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ Kirk (He/Him) the common way is not to transliterate company names. at least in modern Russian. but we can spell both Boeing and Боинг - no restriction or rules
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ i spell in cyrillic when i'm too lazy for switching layout 🙂
<queqiao->
⟨vevladdd 🇺🇦⟩ ⟪Vlood⟫ fwiw, native speaker does not an expert […] ⮪ +, I hope nobody sees such war crimes as unofficial transliteration used between friends and in reddit/4ch-level discussions
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Yeah, I'm just looking to see if one is more common than the other
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Since I obviously have some bias on the matter as an English speaker
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ i think it's absolutely normal to leave latin names of companies. all russian speakers who are smart enough to play RO have no problem with latin alphabet 🙂
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ * problems
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ The way I see it, I have three options
<queqiao->
2. Full Transliteration (Bell becomes Белл, and Энергия becomes Energia)
<queqiao->
1. No transliteration (Bell stays Bell, and Энергия stays Энергия)
<queqiao->
3. Inconsistent transliteration (Bell stays Bell, but Энергия becomes Energia)
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ I wouldn't count on "all _english_ speakers who are smart enough to play RO" having no problems with non-latin alphabets
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ (though this channel tends to suppose otherwise)
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ ⟪Basila⟫ i think it's absolutely normal to leave […] ⮪ Yeah I'm leaning towards that too
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Although that then brings up the concern over how to handle Russian names, unless I just wanna embrace option 3
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ the first variant is optimal. just because transliterated names always looks somewhat weird
<queqiao->
⟨natjam⟩ How do I get Principia to see the engines in my next stage for maneuvers?
<queqiao->
⟨vevladdd 🇺🇦⟩ ⟪natjam⟫ How do I get Principia to see the […] ⮪ You don't
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Alright, time to go screw with the Russian names then
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ yep. don't bother with cyrillic, no one will hesistate to read Russian names in latin letters
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ anyway there is no way to transliterate Ы correctly 🙂
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ So that's option 3 then? Transliterate Cyrillic but not Latin?
<queqiao->
⟨Vlood⟩ ⟪Basila⟫ anyway there is no way to transliterate […] ⮪ ɨ :P
<queqiao->
⟨QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟩ ⟪lpg⟫ I wouldn't count on "all _english_ […] ⮪ I mean, I can read some Cyrrilic but Chinese or Japanese is gonna be a stretch.
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ Kirk (He/Him) as you noticed, Wiki is inconsistent with transliteration. that's because Russian itself have no strict rules, especially in tech texts
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Looks like a lot of Russian companies even transliterations in their logos
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Well, they brought it upon themselves, I'm doing number 3
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ Looks like a lot of Russian companies […] ⮪ That kerning though, ouch.
<queqiao->
⟨Vlood⟩ ⟪Basila⟫ Kirk (He/Him) as you noticed, Wiki is […] ⮪ i think ий is the best example of that lack of rules
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ yes, lots of companies either transliterated themself or have English names. sometimes it lead to funny things like "squirrel institute"