raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<kmath> <✔Alex_Parker> Live footage of my MCMC sampler “converging.” https://t.co/12oQ0XztUh
<bofh> also why in the hell does the spec say dm/s, that is such a baffling unit choice imho.
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: well, fixed-point
<egg|laptop|egg> admittedly they could have used F14.7 instead of F14.6?
<bofh> that would make more sense, yes.
<UmbralRaptop> bofh: I can confirm the same behavior in my MCMC uses.
<bofh> UmbralRaptop: I mean I very rarely use МCMC, but I've had ~same behaviour as well.
<egg|laptop|egg> !u М
<galois> М: U+041c CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER EM
egg|laptop|egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: but they use F14.6 for the position too, so having that for the velocity aligns the decimal points :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> they do have F14.8 or F14.11 elsewhere, but not on xyz fields like that
<UmbralRaptop> aaaaaaaaaa
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: ftp://igs.org/pub/data/format/sp3c.txt
<egg|zzz|egg> actually the F14.11s are both unused 0s
<bofh> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa this is a mess
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: hey, it's a much saner format that TLEs
<egg|zzz|egg> very well documented, specifies timescale, supports uncertainties etc.
<egg|zzz|egg> even correlations!
<bofh> I mean TLEs are *also* very well documented, but yeah, like the format isn't one for which uncertainties would make much sense to have in.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: haha well-documented
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: the timestamp is UTC, and it's unspecified what happens on a leap second
<egg|zzz|egg> in practice they overload it on the next day
<bofh> generally it's not really relevant
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:SINEX Solution (software/technique) INdependent EXchange format
<galois> Definition added!
<bofh> again, TLEs have one primary purpose :p
<bofh> and that is ground station dish tracking of LEO satellites
<bofh> they have further utility but that is what they are *designed* to do, which is why they're fairly simple/sparse/crappy.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: but they're very much not self-documenting: you need to know which perturbation theory corresponds to them
<egg|zzz|egg> if you have an SDP8 TLE set and you use SGP4 on it, you are not going to space today
<egg|zzz|egg> and then there are many versions of SGP4 flying around, because of course
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:SP3 Standard Product 3
<galois> Definition added!
<bofh> I mean yes, that is true, and the quality of the output of varying SGP4 implementations often... leaves a lot to be desired.
<bofh> (I can personally attest to this, one impl. was so bad we literally repeatedly lost lock trying to track a ham sat before going fuck it and using it only to point and not track, only tracking Doppler manually).
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: yeah look at page 16 of that pdf, it's laughable
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:RINEX Receiver Independent EXchange format
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:IONEX IONosphere map EXchange format
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> galois: yes pretty much
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: LOL
<bofh> admittedly, using SGP4 on a deep space sat is very much a "YMMV" kinda thing.
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah that's what the SDPs are for
<egg|zzz|egg> not that their implementations should be trusted much more
<bofh> I mean I've personally corrected shit in the Deep Space Secular Perturbation bit in the commonly-used-in-the-ham-community version of SDP4, so yeah, I wouldn't trust it very much.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ГЛОНАСС ГЛОбальная Навигационная Спутниковая Система
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: see, for tracking porpoises you should just take the TLEs as a very-poorly specified observation, and fit and extrapolate with Principia,
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:SBAS Space-Based Augmentation Systems
<galois> Definition added!
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: ngl that actually sounds like it would work very well.
<egg|zzz|egg> ngl?
<bofh> not going to lie
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: well, we don't know about the atmosphere so that's a problem
<egg|zzz|egg> just track high-flying stuff :-p
<bofh> like, if I wasn't horribly busy, spacey and didn't need additional tasks to do right now I'd seriously write a module for Principia that output sat data to a dish tracking mount
<bofh> I mean most ham/weather sats aren't in orbits where that has much of an influence day-to-day :p
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: the whole typey nonsense should make it *really nice* to do dish things tbh
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ROSAT RÖntgenSATellit
<galois> Definition added!
<bofh> I mean like making a plugin so that Principia can be used as a gpredict-alike honestly doesn't look *too* bad (but I'm so out-of-practise coding anything that isn't just straight numerics or asm that I'd need some time to recall how, like, C++ and APIs work).
<bofh> And it would work quite well at that right now :p
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: also if someone feels like feeding galois https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/kspacademia/search?q=acr%20add&page=2
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ERFA Essential Routines for Fundamental Astronomy
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:BKL Белинский Халатников Лифшиц
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> ah this one is good
<egg|zzz|egg> !ACR -ADD:STARLETTE Satellite de Taille Adaptée avec Réflecteurs Laser pour les ÉTudes de la TErre
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> yes galois, exactly
<UmbralRaptop> !acr -add:токамак тороидальная камера с магнитными катушками || тороидальная камера с аксиальным магнитным полем
<UmbralRaptop> galois?
<egg|zzz|egg> or, to quote Capderou, "Ce joli nom de Starlette est aussi un bel exemple d'acronyme tarabiscoté: Satellite de Taille Adaptée avec Réflecteurs Laser pour les Etudes de la Terre."
<bofh> rofl
<bofh> I maintain that is an NMR-grade acronym.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: it doesn't like | for some reason
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:TT Temps Terrestre
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:TAI Temps Atomique International
<bofh> TT?
<galois> TT: Temps Terrestre
<bofh> TAI?
<galois> TAI: Temps Atomique International
<SnoopJeDi> it may be pitching a mild fit about rapid adds because of that "..." behavior (a foolish builtin spam prevention)
<SnoopJeDi> токамак?
<galois> токамак: тороидальная камера с магнитными катушками || тороидальная камера с аксиальным магнитным полем
<UmbralRaptop> … I keep on forgetting how many technical terms in various languages have cognates in English.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:TCG Temps-Coordonnée Géocentrique
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:TCB Temps-Coordonnée Barycentrique
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:TDB Temps Dynamique Barycentrique
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:TDT Temps Dynamique Terrestre
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:NFA Nomenclature for Fundamental Astronomy
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ET Ephemeris Time
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ERA Earth Rotation Angle
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> !acrs -add:ITRS International Terrestrial Reference System
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ITRS International Terrestrial Reference System
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ITRS International Terrestrial Reference Frame
<galois> Acronym already defined! Try !acr -redef:WTF When Taylor Fails
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ITRF International Terrestrial Reference Frame
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> "Teph: the independent time argument of the JPL and MIT/CfA solar-system ephemerides (Standish, 1998). The linear drift between Teph and TCB is such that the rates of Teph and TT are as close as possible for the time span covered by the particular ephemeris. Each ephemeris defines its own version of Teph; the Teph of the JPL ephemeris DE405 is for practical purposes the same as TDB defined above."
<egg|zzz|egg> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: I, Too, Love Utterly Gratuitous Pointless Intercompatibility Issues For No Good Reason.
<bofh> (thanks, JPL ephemerides)
<bofh> (thPL ephemerides)
<egg|zzz|egg> one day we should switch to IMCCE I guess
<egg|zzz|egg> or make our own ephemeris from scratch
<egg|zzz|egg> IMCCE INPOP
<bofh> I mean I feel like you can get sane ephemerides directly from the JPL SPICE kernels when those are available.
<bofh> !acr -add:SPICE Spacecraft Planet Instrument C-matrix Events
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> or maybe the EPM-ЭРА from ИПА РАН
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: meh, SPICE kernels are just going to have the same issues as the rest of JPL, but generally come with a lot less documentation and analysis
<egg|zzz|egg> the DEs typically come with a paper documenting the underlying observations, the residuals, etc.
<bofh> I mean true.
<bofh> Like I guess the issue is that most other places aren't going to have a similar breadth of high-quality observational data as JPL does.
<bofh> And if some other place does, then use that.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: well, HORIZONS aggregates all of that nicely
<egg|zzz|egg> which is why we use JPL
<egg|zzz|egg> because the HORIZONS service just dumps ICRS coordinates at you for anything at any time, no questions asked
<egg|zzz|egg> (with one email per body)
<egg|zzz|egg> using INPOP would be tricky, because then you'd need to pile on another ephemeris for moons, etc.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:IMCCE Institut de Mécanique Céleste et de Calcul des Éphémérides
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ЭРА Эфемеридные Расчеты в Астрономии
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ERA Ephemeris Research in Astronomy
<galois> Acronym already defined! Try !acr -redef:WTF When Taylor Fails
<egg|zzz|egg> ERA?
<galois> ERA: Earth Rotation Angle
<egg|zzz|egg> oh.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -redef:ERA Ephemeris Research in Astronomy | Earth Rotation Angle
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: ERA/ЭРА is a fun dual-language acronym
<egg|zzz|egg> a bit like DORIS
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: hm, "ephemeris of planets and the moon" http://iaaras.ru/en/dept/ephemeris/epm/ "ephemeris of planets and moon" http://iaaras.ru/dept/ephemeris/epm/
<egg|zzz|egg> I guess the ru version has to have english that's more ru
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:EPM Ephemeris of Planets and Moon
<galois> ...
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: nice
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:INPOP Intégration Numérique Planétaire de l'Observatoire de Paris
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ИПА Институт Прикладной Астрономии
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> РАН?
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:РАН Российской Академии Наук
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:МАС Международный Астрономический Союз
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:UAI Union Astronomique Internationale
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:VSOP Variations Séculaires des Orbites Planétaires
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: but yeah, as for everything the proper way to make ephemerides would be to fit observations, instead of getting at initial state that's itself the output of five different ephemerides, some analytical and some numerical
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: otoh, then we'd have to come up with an acronym for it! :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:DE Development Ephemeris
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:DE Development Ephemeris
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> INPOP is nice in that they actually use TCB
<egg|zzz|egg> it seems EPM uses TDB http://iaaras.ru/dept/ephemeris/online/, and JPL uses I Can't Believe It's Not TDB
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: also, today in format strings, ГГГГ ММ ДД ЧЧ мм сс.ссс
<egg|zzz|egg> ГГГГ ММ ДД ЧЧ.ччч might be more cursed
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<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: oooh this is good, if you ask for a moon, you have the choice of both Планетная теория and Спутниковая теория
<egg|zzz|egg> (or you can even use the english version but why not learn some ru)
<egg|zzz|egg> and they have the DEs, the INPOPs, and the EPMs!
<egg|zzz|egg> this is good
<egg|zzz|egg> and you get to choose your precession-nutation model!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:GUST General Uranus Satellite Theory
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> or General Uranian Satellite Theory? Laskar says both in two papers...
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: huh, this actually seems decent
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:IAA Institute of Applied Astronomy
<galois> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: this is *really good*
<bofh> Uranian is the one that I've seen
<egg|zzz|egg> aside from not having the mail interface, this is better than HORIZONS
<bofh> (I've derived an analytical ephemeris for the 5 large Uranian moons based off of GUST and HORIZONS awhile ago that works well, I *really* need to dig that code up, document it, rederive some quantities properly and shove it somewhere)
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: and given that the query format is https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/master/astronomy/query.f and the response is *ONE MAIL PER BODY* the email interface is not great
<bofh> my fav thing about GUST87 is this one line from the paper
<bofh> "It gives the elliptic elements for all satellites in the reference frame UME50* of the mean equator of Uranus 1950 with origin at the ascending node of Earth mean equation 1950 over Uranus mean equator 1950 (not to be confused with UME50 which origin is the ascending node of Uranus mean equation 1950 over Earth mean equator 1950)."
<bofh> also I'm pretty sure those "mean equation" should actually be "mean equator" since that's the only way those sentences make any damn sense.
<egg|zzz|egg> so it is strictly better than HORIZONS for the bodies it covers
<bofh> wait, Laskar is at OBSPM?!
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: by the way, if you look carefully at that query (or at its results), that's over a leap second
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: it does not *display* the leap second, but you can see that stuff happened betwene 59.59.987 and 0.0.074
<egg|zzz|egg> IMCCE has something vaguely similar but much shittier, http://nsdb.imcce.fr/multisat/nssephmf.htm and http://vo.imcce.fr/webservices/miriade/?forms
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<bofh> egg|cell|egg: I mean I'm pretty sure you can find POST variables corresponding to everything on that form, lol.
<SilverFox> have a meme
<UmbralRaptop> Many things do not spark joy
* UmbralRaptop stares at cookware
<bofh> SilverFox: invert the top and the bottom images on the right, plzkthx.
<bofh> UmbralRaptop: depends on how high the voltage induced by the inductive cooktop is
<UmbralRaptop> hah
<UmbralRaptop> Obviously I should name an electrically ignited rocket engine "Joy"
<bofh> Good idée
<bofh> !u 􀁯􀁲􀁱􀁰􀁩􀁸􀁀􀀫􀀺􀀬􀁚􀀵􀁌
<galois> Whoa now, that's too many characters, hoss
<bofh> !u 􀁯􀁲􀁱􀁰􀁩􀁸􀁀􀀫􀀺
<galois> Whoa now, that's too many characters, hoss
<bofh> !u 􀁯􀁲􀁱􀁰􀁩􀁸
<galois> Whoa now, that's too many characters, hoss
<bofh> !u 􀁯􀁲
<galois> No info for U+10006f (I only know about Unicode up to 9.0)
<galois> No info for U+100072 (I only know about Unicode up to 9.0)
<bofh> what the actual fuck?
<UmbralRaptop> tofu on my phone
<bofh> It'll be tofu for everyone
<bofh> it's private-use B
<kmath> <✔planet4589> Thanks to those who tried to help me on the Japanese PDF cut/paste problem. @bofh453 found out what is going on.… https://t.co/9hBbeqZhdM
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* egg|cell|egg train
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<UmbralRaptop> According to my Bayesian prior, you are coal (0.6), some sort of liquid (0.2), or another solid industrial material (0.2)
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<UmbralRaptop> "If you’d like to pay in person, please do so at the Cashier’s Office located in the Student Union 1 Building, Suite #1500 between the hours of 9am-4:30pm, Monday – Friday.  Please be advised that you must pay with cash or check in person.  Credit/Debit cards are not accepted."
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<egg|cell|egg> Bofh: meow
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<UmbralRaptop> Today in Unicode problems https://photos.app.goo.gl/TmNBQbJqbddioqu46
<UmbralRaptop> ;8ball Do I have to SCP tarballs onto the cluster to install things?
<kmath> UmbralRaptop: Better not tell you now
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<bofh> I particularly like "S.N.C.F. : Service nul, c'est fréquent"
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<bofh> actually no "S.N.C.F. : Source Naturelle des Catastrophes Ferroviaires" is better
* UmbralRaptop stares at their records.
<UmbralRaptop> GMU wants me to pay them for an adjustment so I can *work more*. This isn't for class per se.
<whitequark> are they insane
<UmbralRaptop> I feel like universities still have trouble with the concept of grad students
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<UmbralRaptop> Or at least that the name is wrong, and we're really employees.
<egg|zzz|egg> !u
<egg|zzz|egg> !u ' '
<galois> ': U+0027 APOSTROPHE
<galois> ': U+0027 APOSTROPHE
<egg|zzz|egg> !u
<egg|zzz|egg> hm
* UmbralRaptop pokes more things.
<UmbralRaptop> Okay, I was partially wrong. It's for the research credits that I should be getting a waiver for.
<egg|zzz|egg> gah copying nnbsp turns it into ascii space
<egg|zzz|egg> (from google docs at least, possibly elsewhere too?)
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: is "Я вижу тысячу кошек" grammatically correct
<egg|zzz|egg> hm, I think this is the most ASCII art I have in Principia, it's underwhelming https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/a28e05c5372005daee013e90b5a3166158fe592e/physics/hierarchical_system_test.cpp#L58-L62
<egg|zzz|egg> then again my comments are fun in other ways
<UmbralRaptop> Have you considered the lunar eclipse/solar eclipse/apocalypse sequence?
<egg|zzz|egg> hah
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<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: UmbralRaptop: aaaaaaa https://xkcd.com/2110/
* egg|zzz|egg meows at whitequark
egg|zzz|egg is now known as egg|tgv|egg
<UmbralRaptop> egg|tgv|egg: āǎäáȧāåąăãâæα
<egg|tgv|egg> https://twitter.com/tef_ebooks/status/1058426607118020608 yes but only if you do this before the 20th of May
<kmath> <tef_ebooks> banach tarski aside, but if you cut the ipk in half would you have 2 kilograms?
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<SnoopJeDi> which would is the IPK then
* SnoopJeDi squints
<SnoopJeDi> s/is/be/
<galois> SnoopJeDi meant to say: which would be the IPK then
* egg|tgv|egg replaces Iceland by Belgium and Icelandic by Belarusian
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<egg|tgv|egg> bofh: hm, on TOPEX/Poséidon, I am measuring 4 apsides per orbit
<egg|tgv|egg> the orbit is too circular...
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<UmbralRaptop> cc: Ellied, B787_300? https://social.mecanis.me/@er1n/101575778329647075
<B787_300> UmbralRaptop: for that short a duration it will be fine
<B787_300> if you are really concerned put two
<UmbralRaptop> hm
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<egg|tgv|egg> bofh: do you speak italian https://twitter.com/bofh453/status/1095053206793740288
<kmath> <bofh453> Just discovered the code I've been asked to integrate into this codebase is single-letter-variable-name Fortran tha… https://t.co/5QtDNchOGL
<bofh> egg|tgv|egg: I do not, I've just memorized Canto III of Inferno for hopefully obvious reasons.
<egg|tgv|egg> bofh: yes but do you need help with the comments
<egg|tgv|egg> because if you don't understand the language in which they're written that might not help
<bofh> egg|tgv|egg: I mean google translate did an okay job
<egg|tgv|egg> meow
<bofh> meow
<egg|tgv|egg> yay N_To = 127 C_To = 10 [ν0 ; DTo ; CTo] = [13 ; -3 ; 10], I am correctly analysing the TOPEX/Poseidon orbit recurrence
<_whitenotifier-7e6b> [Principia] zilti commented on issue #2072: Parachutes ineffective below 8m above sea level - https://git.io/fhQuJ
<kmath> <sharonxuesong> 3 HOURS LATER... Finally got my Schengen visa STARTED for #EPRV4 and related travel. Very very jealous of my collea… https://t.co/xHttQxT9ZB
<bofh> UmbralRaptop: yeah, having a Schengen passport is incredibly handy.
<egg|tgv|egg> "I'm not sure why the double-click selection behavior is so much more of a problem for Ancient Greek users than it is for the somewhat larger community of English users."
<egg|tgv|egg> bofh: Mark being slightly snarky :-p
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