raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<egg|laptop|egg> B787_300: I don't think I have been on an A350
<egg|laptop|egg> B787_300: Vietnam airlines has some of those
<B787_300> i havent been on A330,A340,A350, or A380.... i also havent been on B747 or B787
<B787_300> although i was considering taking a trip out to LA to see the shuttle there and try to catch a launch from vandy that would have allowed me to fly domestic on a 787
<egg|laptop|egg> I've been on a 747 and on a 340, not sure about 330
<galois> title: Airbus A350 XWB — Wikipédia
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Airbus A350 XWB#/media/File:Airbus A350 cockpit windows (14274972354).jpg | "L'Airbus A350 XWB est un avion de ligne long-courrier et gros porteur du constructeur européen Airbus. Initialement baptisé A350, ce modèle était dérivé de l'A330 ; toutefois, à la suite des remarques des compagnies aériennes, il a été décidé à la mi-juillet 2006 d'en revoir le concept et de le munir..."
<egg|laptop|egg> (a330 is probably but I don't recall specifically)
<B787_300> it is the airbus equivalent of the 767/777
<egg|laptop|egg> isn't the 777 more 340ish?
<B787_300> yeah but the whole dual/quad engine thing
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> and I guess some of the 350s can fill the same roles as some of the 777s
<B787_300> and it is so dependant on what mix of seats the airlines wants to put in
* egg|laptop|egg should zzz
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<bofh> welcome to your regularly scheduled Saturday evening riots, I guess.
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<UmbralRaptop> 2 hours with a 5 hour break for WiFi is hopefully enough?
<UmbralRaptop> Amusingly, the first thing I saw off the plane was a guy with an MP-5
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<UmbralRaptop> DCA was silly https://photos.app.goo.gl/j9Nt7toLTGPyyQmg9
<galois> title: Shared album - Patrick N - Google Photos
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<UmbralRaptop> Hrm. Wifi's iffy on the platform
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<egg> bofh: yeah this saturday was more intense than had become usual for some reason
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<egg> !seen bofh
<galois> egg: I last saw bofh at 2019-03-17 - 04:41:36 in here, saying welcome to your regularly scheduled Saturday evening riots, I guess.
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2096: Change the Dialog class to persist its data using a ConfigNode - https://git.io/fjvWk
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3494/
<egg> !8ball is UmbralRaptor about to arrive in Grindelwald (on a train that is running 5 min late)
<egg> !help
<galois> egg: I'm sending you a list of my commands in a private message!
<egg> !8 is UmbralRaptor about to arrive in Grindelwald (on a train that is running 5 min late)
<galois> egg: no
<egg> uh
<egg> okay maybe 6 min
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3494/
<egg> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* galois gives UmbralRaptop a rubidium linter with a pterodactyl attachment
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2096: Change the Dialog class to persist its data using a ConfigNode - https://git.io/fjvlv
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3495/
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2096: Change the Dialog class to persist its data using a ConfigNode - https://git.io/fjvWk
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3495/
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2096 commit - https://git.io/fjvlc
<egg> !8 was UmbralRaptor eaten by a cat
<galois> egg: no
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2096: Change the Dialog class to persist its data using a ConfigNode - https://git.io/fjvWk
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2096 commit - https://git.io/fjvlR
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3496/
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2096 commit - https://git.io/fjvlE
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2096 commit - https://git.io/fjvlE
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3496/
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<egg> UmbralRaptop AOS
<egg> UmbralRaptop: how is grindelwald
* egg has never been there
<UmbralRaptop> Vaguely reminds me of Estes Park for some reason
<UmbralRaptop> Incidentally, the hotel has a mural with a cow
<egg> yay
<egg> is it snowy
<galois> title: Météo Grindelwald - meteoblue
<galois> title: Shared album - Patrick N - Google Photos
<egg> cow!
<UmbralRaptop> Incidentally, there was a surprising amount of Japanese signage https://photos.app.goo.gl/VU9NyNnT677cAiSn8
<galois> title: Shared album - Patrick N - Google Photos
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2096: Change the Dialog class to persist its data using a ConfigNode - https://git.io/fjvWk
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<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2096: Change the Dialog class to persist its data using a ConfigNode - https://git.io/fjvWk
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±11] https://git.io/fjv8v
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy f159a2e - Make Dialog an IConfigNode and let it persist its x and y.
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<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy 89ea9b7 - Make the rectangle a member and centre it.
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy c9e8c23 - Persist the message inside the dialog.
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] ... and 3 more commits.
<bofh> egg: mew
<egg> bofh: meow
<egg> bofh: I have confused myself about orders of approximation
<egg> bofh: if a finite difference formula for f'(x) has an error in O(h^k), is it a kth order or (k-1)th order formula
<bofh> ...(k-1), but now I want to double-check that.
<egg> bofh: fornberg gives k as the "order of accuracy" but that seems disturbing
<bofh> hm, it seems that a k'th order finite difference method seems to mean that you truncate the Taylor series at order k, meaning your error would be O(h^k), so having error O(h^k) seems to indeed imply that you have an order k-1 formula at hand.
<egg> bofh: ... so you are saying that a kth order formula is a (k-1)th order formula
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2097: Use Unity's Scope objects and remove layout.cs - https://git.io/fjv8c
<egg> bofh: <Ζήνων ὁ Ἐλεάτης> therefore approximation is impossible
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3497/
<egg> bofh: also I see you're tweeting about Fourier, I think this is the best catpic I have for that https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/1107275944237170688
<galois> title: Robin Leroy on Twitter: "Grant Foster (1996), Time Series Analysis by Projection. I. Statistical Properties of Fourier Analysis. Astronomical Journal, volume 111, number 1, pages 541–554.… https://t.co/lV9tUk7Z4X"
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3497/
<bofh> egg: ooh, excellent
<bofh> 13:44:48 <@egg> bofh: ... so you are saying that a kth order formula is a (k-1)th order formula
<bofh> yes, basically :p
<egg> bofh: ...
<egg> bofh: i don't get it
<bofh> an order k formula has error in O(h^(k-1))
<galois> title: Cunégonde on Twitter: "Did you use the principia Mod for these orbits?… "
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2097: Use Unity's Scope objects and remove layout.cs - https://git.io/fjv8c
<egg> <bofh> an order k formula has error in O(h^(k-1)) << okay now wtf
<egg> k or k+1, maybe, but k-1??!?!
<bofh> er, I reversed that, that should be k+1 >_<
<bofh> look, signs are hard
<egg> bofh: but Fornberg (1988) says of a formula with O(h^k) error that it has order of accuracy k
<bofh> sec, let me grab that
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2097: Use Unity's Scope objects and remove layout.cs - https://git.io/fjv8c
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-2/±14] https://git.io/fjv4W
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy fb40128 - Use Scope objects and remove layout.cs
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy 16f6fbd - Merge pull request #2097 from pleroy/Layout Use Unity's Scope objects and remove layout.cs
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* egg meows at UmbralRaptop
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2098: Add a rectangle and locking to WindowRenderer - https://git.io/fjvBD
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3498/
* egg meows at the forum https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162200-wip131-14x-151-161-principia%E2%80%94version-euler-released-2018-03-06%E2%80%94n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation-axial-tilt/&page=50&tab=comments#comment-3561670
<galois> title: [WIP][1.3.1, 1.4.x, 1.5.1, 1.6.1] Principia—version Euler, released 2018-03-06—n-Body and Extended Body Gravitation, axial tilt - Page 50 - Add-on Development - Kerbal Space Program Forums
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy opened issue #2099: We should replace the navball in IVA - https://git.io/fjvBb
<egg> !8 is UmbralRaptop zzz
<galois> egg: yes
<egg> UmbralRaptop: there is a place called egg near where you are https://www.grindelwaldbus.ch/pictures/01/qiborjdyc3apnsidqwcndpar3wtmoy/gwb_karte_ausfluege-720.jpg
<egg> tbh there are disturbingly many places called egg in CH
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3498/
<whitequark> 317:30 <@egg> tbh there are disturbingly many places called egg in CH
<whitequark> what
<egg> whitequark: there's a place called manegg, which amused bofh greatly https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/hbd/de/index/staedtebau/entwicklungsgebiete/manegg.html
<galois> title: Manegg - Stadt Zürich
<whitequark> lol
<galois> title: Egg, Switzerland - Wikipedia
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Egg, Switzerland | "Egg is a municipality in the district of Uster in the canton of Zürich in Switzerland...."
<egg> that's one of them
<egg> whitequark: the one closest to UmbralRaptop is https://www.google.com/maps/place/Egg,+3818+Grindelwald/@46.630466,8.0452592,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x478f9bee40e07835:0xd2a121211962b298!8m2!3d46.6304668!4d8.0540354
<galois> title: Google Maps
<egg> <bofh> an order k formula has error in O(h^(k-1)) << I still don't understand that convention
<egg> (with - = + that is)
<egg> bofh: that would make backward difference on 2 values an order 0 method, and central difference on 2 values an order 1 method?
<bofh> Hrm, that's a good point. On the one hand that makes sense, on the other hand I usually see backward difference on 2 values being referred to--actually wait, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone referring to it by its order, other than it being one less than central difference.
<bofh> Huh.
<bofh> Let me check that paper (sorry, got distracted >_<)
<egg> bofh: *flyswat*
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2098: Add a rectangle and locking to WindowRenderer - https://git.io/fjvBD
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2098: Add a rectangle and locking to WindowRenderer - https://git.io/fjvBD
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±17] https://git.io/fjv05
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy 1b5e486 - Tighten visibility.
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy a383f28 - Probably too many things changing.
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] pleroy 5be60f7 - Revert most changes.
<_whitenotifier-3d18> [Principia] ... and 3 more commits.
<galois> title: Principia/cbrt_test.cpp at 27e4b60e5aff8f4b8ac0a7b5ff1e676ec8efe06d · mockingbirdnest/Principia · GitHub
<bofh> egg: someone needs to make a "signalling dead beef" photoshop of a steak now
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* UmbralRaptor x_x
* egg|laptop|egg pets UmbralRaptor
<egg|laptop|egg> !meow UmbralRaptor
<galois> 喵
<egg|laptop|egg> !meow
<galois> 喵
<egg|laptop|egg> !help meow
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: MEOW
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: *flyswat*
<bofh> egg|laptop|egg: yes yes
<bofh> egg|laptop|egg: I'm seeing "of optimal formal order of accuracy (in general, n - m + 1)", so with m = 0 we have finite difference on n + 1 grid points having "order n + 1"
<bofh> egg|laptop|egg: assuming you're talking about "Generation of Finite Difference Formulas on Arbitrarily Spaced Grids"
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: m=0 is interpolation
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: you want m=1 for the first derivative
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: *swat*
<bofh> egg|laptop|egg: okay, in that case you get finite difference on n+1 points having "order n"
<bofh> which would agree with "O(h^k) error maps to a (k-1)th order formula", no? since the error is proportional to 1 above the degree of the polynomial, I believe
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: what's the error on the forward difference on 2 points
<bofh> OH, right, you divide out by h for your derivative so your truncation error is bounded by M*h/2 (for |f(x)| < M given |x-h| < some \delta), so O(h)
<bofh> but I can see forward difference being called either first-order or zeroth-order (admittedly, I think the first is what I usually see).
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: that's the whole question
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: which one should it be
<egg|laptop|egg> morally
<egg|laptop|egg> !choose sleep|finite differences
<galois> egg|laptop|egg: Your options: sleep, finite differences. My choice: sleep
<egg|laptop|egg> stabbity choose sleep|finite differences
<bofh> egg|laptop|egg: thing is I can make a reasonable case for calling it either.
<bofh> egg|laptop|egg: wikipedia claims: "As mentioned above, the first-order difference approximates the first-order derivative up to a term of order h."
<bofh> making two-point finite difference first-order
<bofh> My choice: finite differences
<egg|laptop|egg> ytibbats
<galois> title: YTIB - Tibooburra Airport | SkyVector
<egg|laptop|egg> bofh: choose O(h^(k+1))|O(h^k)
egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
<egg|zzz|egg> !meow UmbralRaptor
<galois> 喵
* egg|zzz|egg zzz
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<bofh> ...I like how when you search "orbital inclination change" "fire extinguisher", one of the two results is this channel.
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<whitequark> what
<whitequark> huh it's true