UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
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<egg|laptop|egg> WeylandsWings: raptop: whitequark: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia/2020-05-24#2733025;
<raptop> heh
<WeylandsWings> i think that video will last forever at this rate
<raptop> The missile knows where it is, because it is not at a place of honor...
* egg|laptop|egg pokes raptop in the SNR
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg: For more of a formal equation?
<egg|laptop|egg> probably
<egg|laptop|egg> mostly also I was AFK previously and appear to be here now
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: so I guess the question here is whether it is feasible/sane to compute a temperature-dependent threshold of energy received from the target above which the target is detected
<WeylandsWings> I mean isnt that going to be mainly a function of the sensor dark noise vs temperature curve?
<raptop> Possibly. I'm not 100% clear on the limits for IR sensors
<raptop> Like, IRAC channels 1&2 (and WISE W1 and W2) play nice at 70-80 K, but the longer wavelengths needed single digit Kelvins as best I'm aware?
<raptop> The OST PDF has some discussion on sensitivity vs temperature, I think, but this is far enough outside of my subfield that I'm not quite sure what questions to ask
<egg|laptop|egg> OST PDF?
<raptop> OST?
<galois> OST: Origins Space Telescope
<raptop> PDF?
<raptop> !acr -add:PDF Probability Distribution Function || Portable Document Format
<galois> Definition added!
<raptop> There's the "you can go out to ~1 μm with silicon anyway" aspect. ...I guess looking at some of the tradeoffs for HST and Roman's IR might also be useful, since I think they're fairly warm?
<raptop> asdkljfgj;sadl
<egg|laptop|egg> aoetnhuihsoaen
<raptop> Well, they mention actual sensitivity in some cases, but I'm not seeing anything vs temperature that I could use to generalize >_>;;
<egg|laptop|egg> right I see Representative Sensitivity 5σ in 1 hr
<egg|laptop|egg> sometimes in Janskys, sometimes in Watts per square metre,
<raptop> Yeah. Also at specified wavelengths
<egg|laptop|egg> also saturation limits which I guess tells us what you cannot look at with a given instrumnet
<raptop> ...those graphs could in fact be a way to handwave a bunch of stuff?
<raptop> Yeah
<raptop> Also cannot look at for a single eggsposure
<egg|laptop|egg> though I don’t know how that generalizes to very different instruments
<egg|laptop|egg> e.g. the 30 mm EUV imager on STEREO
<egg|laptop|egg> how many Janskys does it get
<raptop> Would vary with frequecy. I want to say that EUV is a pretty weak (and expoentially falling off) continuum with a lot of emission features?
<egg|laptop|egg> ah no it is the coronarographs that are 30ish mm
<egg|laptop|egg> the EUV thingy is 98
<raptop> Not sure if they're more lines or contiuumish from curvature radiation
<raptop> !choose synchrotorn|thermal
<galois> raptop: Your options: synchrotorn, thermal. My choice: synchrotorn
<egg|laptop|egg> Detector Performance: A 2k x 2k HgCdTe detector array operated at 30 K is used in each of the MISC-T-S and T-M channels and a 2k x 2k Si:As detector array operated at ~7 K is used in MISC-T-L. The detector dark current is assumed to be 1.0 e-sec-1pixel-1 for the 2k × 2k HgCdTe detector and 0.2 e-sec-1pixel-1 for the 2k×2k Si:As detector.
<raptop> yay, mercads
<WeylandsWings> adafruit is reminding me why i dont like DIYing electrical projects
<WeylandsWings> purchased a LED ring and the recommended power supply, thing is really bright which i want, but heats up by 76 F (24.4 C) in 10 mins of use. I had wanted to use this ring in a project that would be on wither 24/7 or most of a work day...
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: mercads?
<WeylandsWings> and that temp rise was when it was sitting on my desk running in the open air. i wanted to to put it in a 3d printed box which would have trapped the heat (and started melting as after 10 mins it was 152 F (66 C) )
<WeylandsWings> egg|laptop|egg: mercury cadmium
<WeylandsWings> type of IR detector
<egg|laptop|egg> ah
<WeylandsWings> other common ones are HgCdTe
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah this says HgCdTe
<egg|laptop|egg> (mercadtel?)
<WeylandsWings> you can also use uBolometers but those have other issues
<raptop> somethign like that
<raptop> also InSb for something
<raptop> ah, near IR
<egg|laptop|egg> Detector Performance: Detector Dark Current is assumed to be 0.06 esec-1pixel-1 for the Si:As 2k × 2k detector
<egg|laptop|egg> but no temperature on that one
<egg|laptop|egg> hm, dark current numbers on HST seem vastly more smol http://documents.stsci.edu/hst/acs/documents/handbooks/DataHandbookv6/acs_Ch44.html
<raptop> I've got some PDFs for optical sensors lying around
<egg|laptop|egg> measured in eleggtrons per pixel per *hour*
<egg|laptop|egg> even though it is hotter
<egg|laptop|egg> I suppose the reason is higher wavelengths?
<raptop> Yeah
<raptop> Admittedly these skew ground based
<raptop> But lots of single digit electrons per hour (especially when cooled)
<raptop> Uh, note that the H4RG varied a lot. The early ones were like an order of magnitude worse than the newer ones
<raptop> The amplifier stuff isn't really useful to me, because really I'd want e- to ADU conversion
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: looks like dark current increases ~eggsponentially with temperature, all other things being equal?
<raptop> Unsure. I'd assume something like T^4
<egg|laptop|egg> ah, right,
<egg|laptop|egg> I wonder whether we can get something cheesy out of blackbody speggtra
<raptop> There's also the possibility we should be looking at phonons in crystals
<egg|laptop|egg> in that case we though summon a mofh because the mofh might actually be able to say something useful there
<egg|laptop|egg> but maybe we can avoid the crystals
<raptop> Ideally, though for the optical end, these are silicon crystals
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg: oh, the Planck function comment was for the stars/moons/planets/whatever
<raptop> Unfortunately, the non-stars will need to consider reflection in the optical
<egg|laptop|egg> clearly we should go back to glass plates to avoid the scary crystals,
<raptop> Silver halide crystals~
<egg|laptop|egg> Am I hearing the cat vomiting
<raptop> I hope not
<WeylandsWings> !8ball is egg hearing the cat vomiting
<WeylandsWings> is the bot broken or did i do it wrong
<egg|laptop|egg> ;8ball meow
<kmath> egg|laptop|egg: Yeah
<WeylandsWings> oh i used the wrong input character
<WeylandsWings> ;8ball is egg hearing the cat vomit
<kmath> WeylandsWings: Yeah
<WeylandsWings> ;8ball am I an idiot?
<kmath> WeylandsWings: As I see it, yes
<WeylandsWings> oh that hurts
<SnoopJeDi> !8 really though?
<galois> SnoopJeDi: no
<SnoopJeDi> good bot
<galois> =]
<WeylandsWings> SnoopJeDi: after trying to play with LEDs and do electrical stuff i might be
<SnoopJeDi> You must make offerings to the pixies to make the electrocity go
<WeylandsWings> SnoopJeDi: i mean in this case it is sounding like it isnt fully my fault
<SnoopJeDi> what are you working on WeylandsWings?
<SnoopJeDi> other than glowybois
<WeylandsWings> SnoopJeDi: i got a reward for doing some certs and wanted to make a nice display stand for it. and as they are glass cubes with stuff in them they should be under lit. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/AZh9U4dZ/irccloudcapture7286959057790751179.jpg this is where I am at with the project
<SnoopJeDi> neat
<SnoopJeDi> and congrats on the certification!
<WeylandsWings> the light inside is from a LED ring I purchased from Adafruit which heats up by 76 F in 10 mins of use, which is obviously less than ideal
<WeylandsWings> why thank you
<WeylandsWings> so yeah maybe a sacrifice to the electrical pixies might have allowed me to get a ring that actually works and that isnt a massive fire hazard
<WeylandsWings> Iike something must be very wrong in the ring to cause a 76 F temp raise in 10 mins of operation on a 9V 1A source (which is the recommended power supply for the ring)
<WeylandsWings> and I really dont want to have to modify the project to include a cooling fan and a radioator on the ring
<WeylandsWings> as I dont have Space for it in the base and while the full version is a bit taller, i dont want to make it that much taller to fit the extra components (which i dont think i should need at all)
<WeylandsWings> so yeah that is what I am working on and possibly being an idiot about
<raptop> grats
<WeylandsWings> (oh also please ignore the massive hole and the weirdness in the lettering, that was a failed attempt at a lithopane like back lighting for the words and a symbol, see image below)
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: hm.
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: that table 4.2 is definitely looking eggsponential and not T^4
<egg|laptop|egg> the slope is not consistent with blackbody radiation at sensor temperature integrated over the wavelength ranges of the instrument though, so simple eggsplanations are too simple
<egg|laptop|egg> (seems to behave like ~3 micron blackbody radiation, but that instrument goes from lyman α to one micron)
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg: er, 4.2 in which pdf?
<raptop> Yeah, that does look exponential
<raptop> ...maxwell-boltzmann distribution with a tail kicking electrons into the well?
<egg|laptop|egg> what do you mean
<raptop> hrm. Probably very wrong for atomic oscillations
<egg|laptop|egg> well, very wrong is not a problem if the cheesy is close enough
<raptop> urgh, I don't remember enough statmech to recall what the phonons would do
<egg|laptop|egg> my "dark current is the sensor looking at itself as a black body" sadly does not work close enough,
<raptop> If the sensor's wavelength range is much bluer than the peak, the shape should be right (eggsponential)
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> but the wavelength range determines the slope, as well
<egg|laptop|egg> and for WFPC2, that goes only to one micron
<egg|laptop|egg> and the slope is only vaguely similar if you go to two or three microns
<egg|laptop|egg> I guess we could make that a fudge coefficient
<raptop> hrm
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: the advantage of going for blackbody radiation is that you should naturally get the utter unusability mode, if the sensor gets to temperatures that blackbody radiate where it looks
<egg|laptop|egg> ... though I guess you would get something even sillier where it would start working better if you heat it enough,
<raptop> Nah, blackbodies don't work like that.
<raptop> Luminosity at every wavelength increases monotonically with temperature
<egg|laptop|egg> ah yeah that tail is chonk
<egg|laptop|egg> right
<egg|laptop|egg> hm
<egg|laptop|egg> are you aware of other similar tables for other instruments in other wavelength ranges than alpha-to-one-micron?
<egg|laptop|egg> to see if the shitty model falls on its face elsewhere
<raptop> No, though I'd be tempted to google around for WISE and especially Spitzer
<egg|laptop|egg> "phonons arent real," i assure myself as i close my eyes and ram the CCD with my shitty blackbody radiation model
<raptop> What fool called it a missile with a thermobaric warhead, and not a phonon torpedo?
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg: confusing scale is confusing
<egg|laptop|egg> also 57 models
<raptop> I need a materials scientist
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh
* egg|laptop|egg stabs mofh
<egg|laptop|egg> with a phonon
<egg|laptop|egg> !wpn -add:wpn phonon
<galois> Entry already exists!
<raptop> I guess it's that which model dominates depends on temperature
<raptop> Pulling data out of that plot would be annoying
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<egg|laptop|egg> why is it 6:13
<egg|laptop|egg> what is sleep
<SnoopJeDi> !why
<galois> SnoopJeDi: because reasons
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<raptop> !8 Is sleep real?
<galois> raptop: no
<raptop> egg: ^
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] gert7 commented on issue #2590: Vessels teleport/switch places upon EVA - https://git.io/JfaS3
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] gert7 commented on issue #2590: Vessels teleport/switch places upon EVA - https://git.io/Jfad8
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2589: Use the Status message in the exceptions returned from the external interface - https://git.io/Jfaq5
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2585: principia.journal.serialization.Status should have a message - https://git.io/Jfz0v
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2589: Use the Status message in the exceptions returned from the external interface - https://git.io/Jfaq5
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/JfabC
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy f5118d9 - Use the Status message in the exceptions returned from the external interface.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy b7bfa89 - Merge pull request #2589 from pleroy/2585 Use the Status message in the exceptions returned from the external interface
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<raptop> Yes, firefox, "ramen" is a word
<kmath> <WryCritic> wip https://t.co/kqEXJ6xF94
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<egg|laptop|egg> !wpn
* galois gives egg|laptop|egg a weighted prop
* egg|laptop|egg pokes mofh with the weighted prop
<WeylandsWings> !wpn egg|laptop|egg
* galois gives egg|laptop|egg a grenade with an inductor attachment
<egg|laptop|egg> !acr -add:HDF Hubble Deep Field
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg> !acr -add:HUDF Hubble Ultra-Deep Field
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg> !acr -add:HXDF Hubble eXtreme Deep Field
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg> astronomical bodies with clicks in their names! https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/(229762)_G%C7%83k%C3%BAn%C7%81%27h%C3%B2md%C3%ADm%C3%A0
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] (229762) Gǃkúnǁ'hòmdímà | "(229762) Gǃkúnǁ’hòmdímà est un objet épars (SDO) de magnitude absolue 3,3, ce qui le qualifie comme un candidat au statut de planète naine. Son excentricité de 0,48 suggère qu'il fut gravitationnellement perturbé. Il viendra à son périhélie autour de 2046.Il a été observé 58 fois au cours de 9 oppositions…"