UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
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<egg|laptop|egg> IRAC?
<galois> IRAC: InfraRed Array Camera (instrument on Spitzer, channels 1 and 2 are/were only functional instruments during the warm phase)
<egg|laptop|egg> !acr -add:SCA Sensor Chip Assembly
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg> !acr -add:FPA Focal Plane Assembly
<galois> Definition added!
<raptop> !acr -add:MIPS Multiband Imaging Photometer for Spitzer (24/70/160 μm far-IR instrument, cold phase only)
<galois> Acronym already defined! Try !acr -redef:WTF When Taylor Fails
<raptop> MIPS?
<galois> MIPS: Multiband Imaging Photometer for Spitzer
<raptop> !acr -redef:MIPS Multiband Imaging Photometer for Spitzer (24/70/160 μm far-IR instrument, cold phase only)
<galois> Definition added!
<raptop> IRS?
<raptop> !acr -add:IRS InfraRed Spectrograph (mid to far IR low resolution spectrograph on Spitzer, cold phase only)
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg> !wpn whitequark
* galois gives whitequark a lutetium link-time paraboloid
* egg|laptop|egg meows at dark current
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: maybe trying to model dark current & read noise is too much of a rabbit hole, and we should be looking for an empirical rule for limiting magnitude (temperature, time, wavelength)?
<egg|laptop|egg> s/should be/should be directly/
<galois> egg|laptop|egg meant to say: raptop: maybe trying to model dark current & read noise is too much of a rabbit hole, and we should be directly looking for an empirical rule for limiting magnitude (temperature, time, wavelength)?
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg: alternate question: do we want to model instruments, or give the players a few canned ones?
<WeylandsWings> why are you going this far into detail for a game
<raptop> WeylandsWings: How goes factorio?
<egg|laptop|egg> haha
<WeylandsWings> shhhhhhhh
<egg|laptop|egg> to avoid part spam and permint amusing/clever reusability while preventing dumb repurposing
<WeylandsWings> (also how did you know i was playing factorio?
<WeylandsWings> )
<raptop> Right now? Lucky guess. In general, you've mentioned really liking it elsewhere
<SnoopJeDi> haha automation go brrrrr
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: re. actually modelling instruments, parts are chonk; I think we should abstract them away and give a selection of observeybois with various apertures/FoV (and maybe bands & special instruments, e.g., coronagraph, as tweakables+)
<raptop> :D
<egg|laptop|egg> s/\+/?/
<galois> egg|laptop|egg meant to say: raptop: re. actually modelling instruments, parts are chonk; I think we should abstract them away and give a selection of observeybois with various apertures/FoV (and maybe bands & special instruments, e.g., coronagraph, as tweakables?)
<WeylandsWings> SnoopJeDi: esp as I am playing a Lazy Bastart run
<egg|laptop|egg> Next Generation UV Instrument Technologies - Technical Development Final Report, figure 2.5 has dark current vs. temperature
<egg|laptop|egg> which behaves, uh, weirdly
<SnoopJeDi> WeylandsWings, I've never played it because one software engineering job is plenty, thanks
<raptop> NUV is normal, FUV starts to get weird
<WeylandsWings> SnoopJeDi: hey I play KSP and my day job is Aerospace engineering
<raptop> And x-ray, well...
<SnoopJeDi> WeylandsWings, yes, KSP was influential in my decision :)
<WeylandsWings> and it is less software engineering and more industrial
<SnoopJeDi> I'm just joking around
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: yeah x-ray and radio need to be handled separately
<SnoopJeDi> It just sounds like A Lot™ as a game and that's not my speed anymore (and potentially never was)
<SnoopJeDi> but I get why people like it
<egg|laptop|egg> I cannot into radio which is a problem
<egg|laptop|egg> but DRVeyl and mofh can
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: but all IR through UV can probably be handled similarlyish
<raptop> Not sure about all IR, but definitely near and possibly mid
<raptop> far starts to get weirdly radio
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah, same as far UV getting x-ray-like weird
<egg|laptop|egg> but we can hide those under the carpet
<egg|laptop|egg> photon carpet
<raptop> x-ray weird makes sense, at least.
<egg|laptop|egg> also if we make bands tweakables, what would be the tradeoff of adding a band to the part
<raptop> Depends on how tweakable
<raptop> Broader bands obviously make detection easier, but also you can't do as much characterization
<raptop> Exactly what's available depends on chip design (silicon dies redwards of somewhere around 1000-1200 nm)
<egg|laptop|egg> or to put it in a dumber way, what happens if you slap a NUV detector onto JWST
<raptop> And, well, cooling reqs
<raptop> Uh, you'd get lousy performance *I think*, since I want to say that JWST's mirrors are like 50% reflective in NUV
<raptop> So performance would *I think* be not much better than HST
<egg|laptop|egg> hm, so the opticks are constrained by the bands you want to support
<raptop> Mirror coatings and chip QE can be tweaked around for better general performance or in certain wavelengths also
<raptop> QE == quantum efficiency
<raptop> Yeah
<raptop> This goes back into FoV/resolution considerations
<egg|laptop|egg> I don’t think we would want to start dealing about band width etc. madness
<raptop> Also why something that covers a lot of wavelengths will have seperate detectors with varying size pixels
<egg|laptop|egg> so I guess to oversimplify the tweakable might be a choice of a discrete set of bands (MIR/NIR/visible/NUV/EUV)
<raptop> Quite possibly
<raptop> Johnson UBVRIZ, Sloan ugriz, 2MASS JHKs, IRAC's 4 bands, WISE's 4...
<egg|laptop|egg> and then trying to slap EUV+MIR on the same instrument means you get a shitty coefficient somewhere that loses light?
<raptop> Note that while IRAC channel 1 and 2 are close to WISE W1 and W2, they have differing 3 and 4
<raptop> Yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> OK, that sounds sound
<egg|laptop|egg> and so then the remaining question is detection thresholds depending on temperature in each of those bands
<raptop> Which annoyingly depends on chip technology
<egg|laptop|egg> hm
<raptop> (see eg: Hawaii 4 RG chips changing by an order of magnitude)
<egg|laptop|egg> I guess that could tie into tech tree magic but that massively complicates an already nontrivial design
<raptop> pixel size for visible(ish) I'd call 10-15 μm, depending on the chip design. Larger for IR obviously
<raptop> Hah
<egg|laptop|egg> ah right pixel size for resolution
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: right so it seems that the main thing is Al which is not ideal for IR but not laughable in UV vs. Au etc. which do slightly better IR and eat all your UV https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Specular-coating-reflectivity-simulated-single-reflection-10-AOI-of-oxidized_fig2_326306856 ?
<raptop> Yes. Also, apparently 明かり did something weird with the mirror design?
<raptop> Nevermind, it was coated in gold
<egg|laptop|egg> OK so looks like the mechanic there is "if it only looks at IR bands, it is gold-coated and gets slightly more light in IR, if it looks at shorter bands, it is plain Al"
<raptop> Sounds good
<egg|laptop|egg> (Sir Mortimer is going to have a fun time with the pile of tweakables)
<egg|laptop|egg> (but better than part spam and the problem of not being able to find parts)
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<kmath> <StephenWhisler> Corvid on Covid, 2020, watercolor on paper, 20” x 14” copyright Stephen Whisler 2020 https://t.co/T9uKifoFMk
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<UmbralRaptop> something something must relocate to San Francisco https://twitter.com/pascalleetweets/status/1264600293355843589
<kmath> <pascalleetweets> SAMPLED ASTEROIDS vs GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE - REVISED. ⏎ Asteroids targeted by robotic sample-return missions vs Golden G… https://t.co/IEoTqft9mo
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] WC12366 opened issue #2591: No "腾讯微云" link for Fuchs - https://git.io/JfV81
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JfV4J
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy c32246e - Fix the weiyun URLs.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #2591: No "腾讯微云" link for Fuchs - https://git.io/JfV4T
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2591: No "腾讯微云" link for Fuchs - https://git.io/JfV81
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2591: No "腾讯微云" link for Fuchs - https://git.io/JfV81
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] WC12366 commented on issue #2591: No "腾讯微云" link for Fuchs - https://git.io/JfV4q
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<egg|laptop|egg> !wpn raptop
* galois gives raptop a superluminal rancid catastrophe
<raptop> ick
<raptop> !wpn egg|laptop|egg
* galois gives egg|laptop|egg a thecal friendly brandistock with a kaon attachment
<raptop> HEP: High Energy Polearm
* egg|laptop|egg is confused
<egg|laptop|egg> hah
* raptop is probably going to end up adding a few smol ones and proposed gaints
<raptop> *giants
<egg|laptop|egg> also the TESS FoV is a mess
<egg|laptop|egg> (and how do we even deal with Gaia/SEVIRI and the other spinners?)
<raptop> Gaia and Hipparcos I'd handwave away. Different eggsperiment really, even though images eggsist
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah I guess they are not repurposable for imaging tasks
<egg|laptop|egg> and SEVIRI is just an imager that has a practically unbounded FoV
<egg|laptop|egg> raptop: also re. bands, where should they be delimited, and do you think we can get away with just NIR+FIR by cleverly splitting MIR, or are three qualitatively needed
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* raptop doesn't know, since I don't do science in the relevant wavelengths
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<egg|laptop|egg_> The slow scan is performed from South to North by means of a scan mechanism, which rotates the scan mirror in step rates of 125.8 micro radians. A scan total range of +/-5.5 degrees (corresponding to 1527 scan lines) is considered to cover the 22 degrees Earth imaging extended range in the South-North direction, respectively 1249 scan lines to cover the whole Earth in the baseline repeat cycle.
* egg|laptop|egg_ stares at 5.5
* egg|laptop|egg_ stares at 22
<raptop> Ah, it's fun how many old instruments are vidicon tubes in normalish cameras, so you get a focal length and ratio instead of a diameter
<raptop> er, s/fun/Fun/
<egg|laptop|egg_> is the 22 supposed to be 11
<egg|laptop|egg_> hm, but 11 would not cover the earth
<egg|laptop|egg_> hm, Capderou says they have 3712 lines
<raptop> ...Why does sci-hub have a gif of Alexandra waving?
<egg|laptop|egg_> huh
<egg|laptop|egg_> 3712 makes more sense, but what is this 1527 about
<raptop> o_O
<egg|laptop|egg_> raptop: turning that into a smol number of parts is going to be the celestial emporium of benevolent knowledge isn’t it https://github.com/Kerbalism/KerbalismContracts/wiki/Design
<egg|laptop|egg_> !wpn whitequark
* galois gives whitequark a RISC gravity multitool
<egg|laptop|egg_> ah, the Principia coprocessor
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg_: heh
<raptop> !wpn
* galois gives raptop a spatha
<raptop> !wpn -add:wpn vidicon tube
<galois> Added wpn 'vidicon tube'
<raptop> !wpn -add:wpn ninja
<galois> Added wpn 'ninja'
<raptop> !wpn -add:adj unary
<galois> Added adj 'unary'
<raptop> !wpn -add:adj binary
<galois> Added adj 'binary'
<raptop> !wpn -add:adj trinary
<galois> Added adj 'trinary'
<raptop> Huh, Mariner 6 and 7 had 8" telescopes for their narrow angle (television) cameras, and 10" telescopes for their IR spectrometers
<raptop> Corona
<raptop> (The good kind)
<egg|laptop|egg_> !acr -add:MADRAS Microwave Analysis and Detection of Rain and Atmosphere Systems
<galois> Acronym already defined! Try !acr -redef:WTF When Taylor Fails
<egg|laptop|egg_> MADRAS?
<galois> MADRAS: Microwave Analysis and Detection of Rain and Atmospheric Structures
<egg|laptop|egg_> huh
<raptop> NTRS?
<raptop> !acr -add:NTRS Nasa Technical Report Server ( https://ntrs.nasa.gov )
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg_> raptop: so uh, does a thing in 18.7 GHz to 157 GHz that produces images work like an imager, or is it a radioeyboi
<egg|laptop|egg_> I guess microwave and X-ray should work pretty much like optical imaging except with dedicated parts because there is no way you share the opticks
<egg|laptop|egg_> but then you have the realm of proper antennae and the question of transponders vs. radars
<raptop> !c 299792458/157e9
<galois> raptop: 0.001909506102
<raptop> !c 299792458/18.7e9
<galois> raptop: 0.01603168225
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg_: the answer to your question is quite possibly "yes"
<egg|laptop|egg_> which question,
<egg|laptop|egg_> aaaa
<raptop> If something working at 18.7 GHz to 157 GHz is an imager or a radioboi
<raptop> I guess if it has pixels, it's a weird imager?
<egg|laptop|egg_> !acr -add:MARFEQ MADRAS RF EQuipment
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg_> raptop: ... but then you can use a SAR to make a map (something something venus) so is that a weird imager too
<egg|laptop|egg_> *points at TV dish* is this an imager
* raptop grabs a NASA report off of the good bird website o_O
<raptop> egg|laptop|egg_: I mean, sub-millimeter has equipment that tends to look like weirdly sized imagers in some places and radios in others
<raptop> PIGEON?
<raptop> BUTTERFLY?
<egg|laptop|egg_> SAPHIR?
<egg|laptop|egg_> !acr -add:SAPHIR Sondeur Atmosphérique du Profil d’Humidité Intertropicale par Radiométrie
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|laptop|egg_> ScaRaB?
<galois> ScaRaB: SCAnner for RAdiation Budget
<egg|laptop|egg_> raptop: I’m at the passive radiometer ; I’m at the real aperture radar ; I’m at the combination passive radiometer and real aperture radar https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMAP_(satellite)
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] SMAP (satellite) | "SMAP (Soil Moisture Active and Passive mission) est une mission d'observation de la Terre de la NASA utilisant un satellite de télédétection dont le lancement a eu lieu le 31 janvier 2015. Cette mission spatiale fait partie du programme Earth Observing System qui regroupe un ensemble de satellites de…"
<egg|laptop|egg_> wait wtf the english article says it is a synthetic aperture radar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_Moisture_Active_Passive
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Soil Moisture Active Passive | "Soil Moisture Active Passive (SMAP) is a NASA environmental monitoring satellite launched on 31 January 2015. It was one of the first Earth observation satellites developed by NASA in response to the National Research Council's Decadal Survey.NASA's investment is of US$916 million (design, development..."
<egg|laptop|egg_> !acr -add:SMAP Soil Moisture Active and Passive
<galois> Acronym already defined! Try !acr -redef:WTF When Taylor Fails
<egg|laptop|egg_> SMAP?
<galois> SMAP: Soil Moisture Active and Passive mission
<raptop> ...also it took me entirely too long to get the pun about a TV dish being an imager >_<
<egg|laptop|egg_> the pun was not intentional
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<kmath> <weatherdak> Well this is cool to watch. ⏎ ⏎ Ride along with a von Karman vortex. https://t.co/4jUihqeDow
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<egg|cell|egg> Meow
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<raptop> !wpn egg|cell|egg
* galois gives egg|cell|egg a reflexive polytrope
<raptop> !wpn Iskierka
* galois gives Iskierka a postulate