egg changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Cesàro. We currently target both 1.2.2 and 1.3. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/
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<awang> About how much dv should I expect to save using a low-energy transfer to the moon?
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<awang> Uh
<awang> So Principia is showing a maneuver taking ~4000 m/s of dv
<awang> And the stage I'm using has about 5000 m/s
<awang> But Principia is asking for a burn of about 3 minutes, when the stage only has ~2.5 minutes in it
<awang> Any idea why?
<awang> Also, I get that the delta-v counter isn't supposed to change
<awang> Is the maneuver node marker supposed to not move, too?
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<egg|afk|egg> awang: depends whether you check inertially fixed or not
<egg|afk|egg> awang: see the concepts page
<GH> [Principia] pleroy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vdoj7
<GH> Principia/master 12f5252 Pascal Leroy: Remove the Cesàro notice.
<awang> egg|afk|egg: Don't see a mention for inertially fixed?
<egg|afk|egg> awang: hmm
<egg|afk|egg> awang: might have forgotten to document it, but anyway, there's a checkbox https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Change-Log#%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%8B%D1%88%D1%91%D0%B2
<awang> Right, I've seen the checkbox
<awang> I just don't really know what it does
<egg|afk|egg> so if it's inertially fixed, it points in a fixed direction (e.g. towards a distant star)
<egg|afk|egg> if it's not, it tracks the Frenet trihedron (e.g. it keeps being tangent)
<egg|afk|egg> (tangent being prograde)
<awang> So burns in a tangent direction will only be tangent at burn start if inertially fixed is true?
<awang> Wait
<egg|afk|egg> yup
<awang> I see
<awang> Makes sense
<awang> Although if inertially fixed is off
<awang> The navball indicator doesn't move then, right?
<awang> So how do you know where to point?
<egg|afk|egg> it does, it tracks the frenet trihedron too
<awang> Oh
<awang> So it's just the countdown that doesn't change
<awang> ?
<egg|afk|egg> (in particular if your burn is tangent the navball marker will stay tangent)
<awang> Guess I wasn't paying enough attention to the maneuver node marker
<awang> Ah
<egg|afk|egg> awang: well it's more complicated than that
<awang> Well, I guess that makes sense
<egg|afk|egg> the marker in stock tries to provide guidance (in the closed-loop sense)
<egg|afk|egg> giving you a residual
<egg|afk|egg> we don't try to do that, because since we don't make the instant-burn assumption guidance is hard (more complicated than a residual, depends on what you're guiding for, etc.)
<awang> So if inertially fixed is off, the maneuver node marker doesn't move relative to the tangent marker on the navball?
<egg|afk|egg> so we just provide you with open-loop guidance
<egg|afk|egg> i.e. "where to point" "how long to burn"
<egg|afk|egg> with no feedback from what you actually did
<awang> I see
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<egg|afk|egg> the idea being that you do your burn that way, then perform a correction (looking at map view)
<egg|afk|egg> you need TCMs in real life too anyway
<egg|afk|egg> (but in real life you'd have closed loop guidance on the actual burn, but that's a lot of work)
<awang> Just making sure, residual means how far off you are?
<awang> TCM?
<Qboid> awang: [TCM] => Trajectory Correction Manœuvre
<awang> Ah
<awang> Good bot
<egg|afk|egg> yeah, that's what residual means
<egg|afk|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor an octanitrocubane photothyristor
egg|afk|egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn awang
* Qboid gives awang a complex clutter
* UmbralRaptor explodes violently.
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: Also, how is the burn duration calculated?
<egg|zzz|egg> using the active engines
<awang> Last night I had a Principia burn that asked for ~4000 m/s over ~3 minutes, when the stage provides ~5000 m/s over ~2.5 minutes
<awang> The engine I executed the burn with was the only active one
<egg|zzz|egg> Ꙩ_ꙩ
<egg|zzz|egg> was it the only active one when you created the flight plan? it doesn't pick up later changes
<awang> Should have been
<awang> Don't remember
<egg|zzz|egg> weird
<awang> I'll be more careful this time around
<egg|zzz|egg> but yeah, we just use Циолковский with the engine properties in a vacuum...
<awang> Use huh?
<egg|zzz|egg> Циолковский's equation
<awang> Ah
<awang> Do you actually type these all out, or do you have a list for copy/pasting?
<awang> :P
<egg|zzz|egg> I have custom greek and cyrillic layouts for convenience
<egg|zzz|egg> gotta type the names of whitequark's cats
<awang> Wow
<awang> You're crazy
<awang> In a good way
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