raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fréchet. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.x. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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Sir Mortimer. — sun observation without principia: just launch a second satellite (and eat the cost of ~100k credits)
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Standecco. — kerbin will, at some point, obscure the sat for some tie
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Standecco. — kerbin will, at some point, obscure the sat for some time (edited)
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Damien. — why would it. each sat will spend most of its time at Ap, so the chances of both sats being obscured at any one time are slim
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DRVeyl. — Then just offset the second sat and match periods, and you can guarantee neither are near Pe at the same time. 😉
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DRVeyl. — Then just offset the second sat and match periods, and you can guarantee both are not near Pe at the same time. 😉 (edited)
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Damien. — ^
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Standecco. — didn't notice nor read that he had 2 satellites
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Standecco. — I might be blind
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Falcon. — @Standecco yes it works, havent checked the science yet, the only gripe i had with it, is that i had to basically fly the probe around the moon/asteroid because if i was above 5000 meters, i was in an unstable orbit, and i need to by 10+ km above the the moon to scan
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Standecco. — @Falcon well, that's due to how SCANsat + principia works unfortunately
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Standecco. — did you check if data was accumulating in the hard drive while scanning?
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Falcon. — yes
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Falcon. — over 100 Megabytes
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Falcon. — lol
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Falcon. — going to take forever to transmit
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Falcon. — i do love how RA implemented the transmission time thing though
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Falcon. — that will help A LOT
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Standecco. — 100 MB sounds reasonable, I gues
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Standecco. — what level is the scanner?
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Standecco. — 100 MB sounds reasonable, I guess (edited)
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moar ssto. — Doe to fixed rotational angular velocity of planets and non spherical gravitational potential, will the angular momentum of solar system change over time in principia?
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Sir Mortimer. — time will tell 😛
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egg. — @moar ssto yup, this is a shortcoming of the approach we took to the rotation of bodies
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egg. — the energy will also change over time for the same reason
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egg. — (but only via the rotation issues, so this should be mostly minor)
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egg. — if you are familiar with Noether’s theorem this will immediately be apparent
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moar ssto. — True ,since the Lagrangian is explicitly time dependent then.
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egg. — yup, it depends on time and it is not invariant by rotation
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egg. — (though I prefer thinking of the Hamiltonian)
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moar ssto. — This shouldn't be the case for Kerbolar system I guess, as all potentials only have the first term.
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egg. — yup, there energy and angular momentum are preserved
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egg. — to be honest it sounds like a potentially fun project to handle the rotation of bodies as part of the differential equation
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egg. — however this would be a pretty massive effort with essentially no visible effect :-p
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egg. — not that this deters us in principle, but still :-p
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moar ssto. — But maybe some interesting effect on customized systems with weird planetary shapes, like Wirlingig Worlds
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egg. — cc @Gregrox
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Gregrox. — ping
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Gregrox. — what's going on
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egg. — yeah definitely, a chaotically-spinning triaxial ellipsoid being nudged around by the surrounding gravitational field sounds like it could be fun
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egg. — if rather confusing
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Gregrox. — oh man yes
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Gregrox. — Pluto moon time
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moar ssto. — The superkerbin companion of Mesbin will tumble it around.
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Gregrox. — tbh to be usable for KSP planet pack authors we need some kind of tool for figuring out the gravitymodel settings for each planet
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egg. — I wonder whether Toutatis is big enough that you can represent it as a celestial at RSS scale
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Gregrox. — i still have no idea what the j2 of Mesbin should be
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moar ssto. — I forgot the name of that moon though.
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Gregrox. — i still have no idea what the J2 of Mesbin should be (edited)
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Gregrox. — i still have no idea what the J2 of Mesbin should be. Hell I don't even know what *shape* Mesbin should be, the current shape is more or less guesswork. (edited)
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Gregrox. — Derbin is the moon you mean
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moar ssto. — Yes
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moar ssto. — Does it have any inclination?
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Gregrox. — Derbin's really distant and tidally not that important. Graymun and Kerbin, nearer and less massive, I would think would be bigger influences
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Gregrox. — Derbin has something like a 5 degree inclination
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egg. — Roller Derbin,
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Gregrox. — lol
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moar ssto. — Does Principia support torroidal harmonics?
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Gregrox. — if only
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moar ssto. — It would be the recipe for some funny creations.
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egg. — nah, only spherical harmonics, and we don’t support the first degree ones so you can’t cheat by nudging your origin away from the centre of mass
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moar ssto. — So the body's KSP center is always its COM?
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egg. — yeah
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egg. — which means you should plan your heightmap so that the centre is the centre of mass, not the centre of figure
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moar ssto. — Just interested if its possible to make doughnut planets.
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Pteropodidae. — Time for Principia to chomp up more of KSP's functionality? 😛
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moar ssto. — For the gravitational model to work correctly around a dougnut,you will require some Principia like functionality.
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Pteropodidae. — > Doe to fixed rotational angular velocity of planets and non spherical gravitational potential, will the angular momentum of solar system change over time in principia?
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Pteropodidae. — Question from a thoroughly uneducated bystander: Should non-spherical gravitational potentials result in changing rotational speeds?
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Pteropodidae. — Kind of curious what orbits around highly irregular bodies would look like
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moar ssto. — At least the orbital plane will drift.
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moar ssto. — That's how you get sso
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moar ssto. — Though in reality, you are exchanging angular momentum with the planets rotation.
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Pteropodidae. — Hrm
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Pteropodidae. — I knew some vague concepts about SSOs, but never really though about the physics behind it
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moar ssto. — Is principia friendly for large part count ships? And will principia interfere with aerodynamic calculations at all? (such as causing aero occlusion failure or applying aero forces differently) I know this question sounds stupid, but since principia interferes with how forces are acting on ships, its better to know its effect on aero.
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egg. — we don’t really interfere with forces
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egg. — the forces are applied, and have the effect they need to have on the ship
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egg. — in particular on the relation between its parts
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egg. — however the ship as a whole goes where Principia tells it
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egg. — and that is dictated by looking at all the forces, and seeing what net effect they have
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Falcon. — Sorry for not answering your question @Standecco it was a biome scanner, first one I guess?
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moar ssto. — Thanks a lot @egg
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Pteropodidae. — Kinda curious how large a ship would need to be for intra-vessel tidal forces to become significant
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<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — I tried calculating the higher-order j_n coefficients for mesbin a while back
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Acer_Saccharum. — however I have no real way of knowing if my numbers made any sense
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egg. — yeah I am really unsure how to approach that kind of problem
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Acer_Saccharum. — my attempt involved taking the shape of mesbin and the speed it rotates at, and calculating a centrifugal potential
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Acer_Saccharum. — then adding a point-gravitational potential to that, and perturbing that point-potential with what I think were legendre polynomials until I got a geopotential surface to line up with the real surface of mesbin
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Acer_Saccharum. — I'm almost certain there's a fatal mistake in there somewhere though
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — my attempt involved taking the shape of mesbin and the speed it rotates at, and calculating a centrifugal potential
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — then adding a point-gravitational potential to that, and perturbing that point-potential with what I think were legendre polynomials (tuened into what I thought were spherical harmonics) until I got a geopotential surface to line up with the real surface of mesbin (edited)
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Acer_Saccharum. — I just manually toyed with the second, fourth, sixth, and eighth order zonal harmonic coefficients
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Acer_Saccharum. — I just manually toyed with the second, fourth, sixth, and eighth order zonal harmonic coefficients until the shapes matched (edited)
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — I just manually toyed with the second, fourth, sixth, and eighth order zonal harmonic coefficients until the shapes matched fairly closely (edited)
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — my attempt involved taking the shape of mesbin and the speed it rotates at, and calculating a centrifugal potential
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — then adding a point-gravitational potential to that, and perturbing that point-potential with what I think were legendre polynomials (turned into what I thought were spherical harmonics) until I got a geopotential surface to line up with the real surface of mesbin (edited)
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — my attempt involved taking the shape of mesbin and the speed it rotates at, and calculating a centrifugal potential
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — then adding a point-gravitational potential to that, and perturbing that point-potential with what I think were legendre polynomials (turned into what I thought were spherical harmonics) until I got a geopotential surface (summed with the centrifugal potential) to line up with the real surface of mesbin (edited)
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — another method I tried was subtracting the centrifugal potential from mesbin's shape, creating a new curve I tried to approximate with those what-I-thought-were-spherical-harmonics
<discord-_>
Acer_Saccharum. — another method I tried was subtracting the centrifugal potential from mesbin's shape, creating a new curve (surface really, but the problem is rotationally symmetric) I tried to approximate with those what-I-thought-were-spherical-harmonics (edited)
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