<RockyTV[m]>
also, one thing I wanted to suggest is a dropdown to license selection so we can prevent this from happening: ` Creative Commons - You can edit freely, but I need credit. `
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<VITAS[m]>
so a predefinied list of licenses and you cant add a new one?
<VITAS[m]>
how does github do it?
<VITAS[m]>
i would love that but i fear adapting existing mods would be quite ja job.
<VITAS[m]>
-j
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<RockyTV>
or something like arch linux does
<RockyTV>
I'd be in favor of asking for license slugs than a text like "creative commons you can do anything you want" while there's like 5 types of cc licenses :P
<HebaruSan[m]>
Not sure if it would be worth going over a bunch of messy free text data when someone's already compiled a good list
<VITAS[m]>
the difference is that we have to apply this list to existing messy entries
<VITAS[m]>
we can optionaly merge that list with the one you posted (i would be allf or it because not every license has been used on SD so far)
<HebaruSan[m]>
Nah, just make the "real" licenses available as a list of defaults
<HebaruSan[m]>
No need to go back and change old garbage data
<VITAS[m]>
but how would you do that from a db standpoint?
<HebaruSan[m]>
No change to db
<HebaruSan[m]>
Just have UI where you can autocomplete or pick from a list, done
<VITAS[m]>
i would normaly have one list with licenses and assign an id to each of them
<VITAS[m]>
and if you have an old mod
<VITAS[m]>
and you edit that mod?
<HebaruSan[m]>
Db still stores strings
<HebaruSan[m]>
Just they're not as messy anymore
<HebaruSan[m]>
Who cares? No problem
<HebaruSan[m]>
Leave it
<VITAS[m]>
ok then i say we should leave it all together as it is
<HebaruSan[m]>
nbd
<VITAS[m]>
haveing two systems feels like a recepie for new problems
<HebaruSan[m]>
If the alternative is going through the accumulated old data and converting it manually, then I agree
<HebaruSan[m]>
That's insanity
<VITAS[m]>
yes i see that as only alternative
<VITAS[m]>
clean up or leave it as it
<VITAS[m]>
but dont have both
<VITAS[m]>
we will ahve all the complexity but none of the uniformity
<HebaruSan[m]>
But it would be easy for the UI to provide guidance so the formats of the common licenses would be more consistent
<HebaruSan[m]>
They type "CC", a dropdown appears with common CC licenses, they pick one
<VITAS[m]>
the wouldnt because maintained mods exisit
<HebaruSan[m]>
They can even edit after that if they really want to, but most wouldn't
<VITAS[m]>
yes im all with you IF we clean up all the existing 2k entries
<HebaruSan[m]>
New mods do get created once in a while
<HebaruSan[m]>
Well for what it's worth I am not going to spend any time on converting that old data
<HebaruSan[m]>
Personally
<VITAS[m]>
and i understand that
<HebaruSan[m]>
Maybe some of the other collaborators would, dunno
<HebaruSan[m]>
Anyway I don't see why old data would be a dealbreaker for an assistive UI that would make the newer data more consistent
<VITAS[m]>
because sonsistency only comes from everything following a system
<HebaruSan[m]>
So we just leave it and keep generating messy data?
<HebaruSan[m]>
I don't see the upside in that
<HebaruSan[m]>
Stop the flow of blood first
<HebaruSan[m]>
Anyway, gtg l8r
<VITAS[m]>
I see that you are very passionate about this.
<VITAS[m]>
How about this: We split the existing Data amogst everyone willing
<VITAS[m]>
would you be willing to go trough say 250 entries?
<VITAS[m]>
or even less
<DasSkelett[m]>
How many mods are there?
<VITAS[m]>
2k
<VITAS[m]>
ish
<VITAS[m]>
we could make a pad
<VITAS[m]>
post a list of mods with id on them
<VITAS[m]>
and also a list of license names with id
<VITAS[m]>
i could update that list till we are ready to deploy
<VITAS[m]>
and we could map mods to license list ids
<VITAS[m]>
if we want to clean up im for going all the way and only storing reference ids to a list of licenses
<VITAS[m]>
and offering a dropdown
<VITAS[m]>
(maybe a searchable one)
<DasSkelett[m]>
New database table with supported licenses, relationship between mod.license_id and a license.
<VITAS[m]>
yes
<DasSkelett[m]>
If there are 2k mods, and assuming we would be 4 people, that would leave 500 for each
<VITAS[m]>
i expect some mod authors to have concerns about not beeing able to edit their license freely or some questionable entries like "OpenSource v28"
<VITAS[m]>
i assume posting the pad on the forums
<VITAS[m]>
asking for help
<VITAS[m]>
pads has version management buildt in so we can roll back if something is messed up but we would have to keep an eye on it
<DasSkelett[m]>
From who do you expect to get help? I think we have to decide ourselves what to do with them. Setting license to unspecified for example.
<DasSkelett[m]>
From whom do you expect to get help? I think we have to decide ourselves what to do with them. Setting license to unspecified for example.
<DasSkelett[m]>
From whom do you expect to get help? I think we have to decide ourselves what to do with them. Setting license to "unspecified" or "unknown" for example.
<VITAS[m]>
the hole
<RockyTV>
run a query and get how many mods use GPL and MIT
<RockyTV>
need numbers first then we decide what to do
<VITAS[m]>
to be able to map the individual mods to the license types
<VITAS[m]>
espcialy the unique ones have to be done manualy
<VITAS[m]>
bonus points for check with the mod authors of unresolveable ones
<VITAS[m]>
thank you KineticSloth8StoneBlue
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
lemme see what I can do rn
<VITAS[m]>
cool
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<RockyTV>
should be easy enough to add a script
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
what do you want to do with single mod entries, which package several things under different/multiple licenses?
<VITAS[m]>
if we cant find out what they ment we have to contact the mod author
<VITAS[m]>
i would do that once we have actual code we could put into prduction
<VITAS[m]>
if we cant figure it out we have to have a "misc" flag in the db that you cant select with new mods and have to put the actual text into description
<VITAS[m]>
(or something like that)
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
what aboot allowing multiple fields?
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<DasSkelett[m]>
We'll also have to account for double-licensed mods, which is different from mods with differently licensed subpackages.
<DasSkelett[m]>
> When software is multi-licensed, recipients can typically choose the terms under which they want to use or distribute the software
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
oh wait.. you mean like "ARR: for artwork, BSD: for code"?
<DasSkelett[m]>
Qt is a very prominent example. You can either use it under the GPL or LGPL or a commercial license if you don't wnat to open-source your own code.
<DasSkelett[m]>
No, not exactly. That would be more like "subpackages have different licenses". But with dual licensing, all parts have the same licenses, and you can choose which one to apply to your redistributions of the mod.
<DasSkelett[m]>
Based on that users of your redistribution have to comply to the license you chose.
<VITAS[m]>
isnt good enough to let the author choose one license?
<VITAS[m]>
we cant make it machien readbale if we allow full flexibility
<DasSkelett[m]>
Well yes, we don't have to have an option for this in SpaceDock, in the end what counts is what is said in the zipfile. Just wanted to make you aware of that this exists, and some mods might be using it.
<VITAS[m]>
yes we will have to talk to the mod authors in those edge cases
<VITAS[m]>
what we need now is to finish the list as best as we can and for the thing beeing implemented in code on alpha
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<HebaruSan[m]>
Another license related observation, some uploaders get lazy and leave the field on the default of "MIT" while the actual license in the download or on the forum thread is something else. If it was blank by default (and required to fill in of course), that would force them to choose something.
<RockyTV>
let's make a parser that analyzes zip files and check the LICENSE file!
<DasSkelett[m]>
You do it
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<VITAS[m]>
uhm why so complicated?
<VITAS[m]>
i go by the form not the forums or other sources
<VITAS[m]>
if someone writes MIT or leaves it thats what i continue to advertise
<HebaruSan[m]>
I wonder if GitHub's license parser is open source, I believe they do exactly that
<HebaruSan[m]>
Yes, I know, and the mod author when asked will say, "No, that's wrong" 🙂
<VITAS[m]>
and i wouldnt care
<VITAS[m]>
because i have tobelive what they tell me in the first place
<VITAS[m]>
they can change it if they want
<VITAS[m]>
in other words: unless we cant replicate what the current field says we should go with it
<VITAS[m]>
theres a file in your home dir
<VITAS[m]>
contains what you need
<VITAS[m]>
ah not here but in dmp :D
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<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
I have a cleaned up version of the SD-licensetypes just about ready to go.
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
I also added a field and organized all the mixed/unknown/unclear entries...
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
should make it easier to seperate those out and look at them one by one vOv
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
how would you like it sorted?
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
I currently have it as an .odt spreadhseet?
<VITAS[m]>
SO you want to do the whole list?
<VITAS[m]>
be my guest
<VITAS[m]>
i sorted it after license name
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
hmm.. i'll sort it by odd-balls, then license vOv
<VITAS[m]>
ah ok
<VITAS[m]>
make sure to export it as coma sperated csv
<VITAS[m]>
so we can easily import it again
<VITAS[m]>
(like the existing list is)
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
ok.. I'll dump the ones that are unclear or mixed at the top or bottom, then by the license name. surprisingly theres *not* that many that arent clear 😉
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
hmm.. I did delete all the quotes, tho vOv
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
but yeah, I can do somma-sep 🆗
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
but yeah, I can do comma-sep 🆗
<VITAS[m]>
ack
<VITAS[m]>
btw whats "all rights reserved" in license names?
<DasSkelett[m]>
Well, with ARR technically there is no license at all, because you are not licencing it to others to redistribute it at all.
<DasSkelett[m]>
But it often goes as "All Rights Reserved" or "ARR"
<VITAS[m]>
there are menay more entries that can be mass tagged by search and replace
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
I didnt change the existing license types over to the seperate list you have of those... I just cleaned up all the licenses listed in the SD-licenses, so they are clearer and moar consistent, and identified ones that really need to be looked at manually.
<KineticSloth8StoneBlue[m>
Basically, I got it so it *should* be easier for someone to make a script, or copy/paste the exact license type/name as you want it, from the types list vOv
<VITAS[m]>
types shouldnt be changed
<VITAS[m]>
more precise SD-licensetypes shouldnt be changed
<VITAS[m]>
sd-license should be one list (in any order) with the matching id from SD-licensetypes added at the end of each line