UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: hmm, so the thing is I have annoyingly low resolution for the low frequencies using the 5 "predictable" years, and then if you look at the century-long graph some weird changes happen (close encounters?) so that it fills with noise
<bofh> so I think there's some nasty chaotic behaviour in the century-long graph.
<bofh> lowpass-filter it perhaps?
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: yeah I think the century-long graph is mostly worthless, I'm pretty sure there are close encounters in there that truly change the behaviour of things
* egg|zzz|egg zzz
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn bofh, Fiora, NonlocalRaptor, et al.
* Qboid gives bofh, Fiora, NonlocalRaptor, et al. a self-adjoint trombone-like δ-function
<Majiir> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg a bipartite degenerate stinger
<Qboid> Majiir: SilverFox left a message for you in #kspmodders [14.08.2017 09:32:33]: "two new sonamoo MVs up 30 minutes ago"
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn Majiir
* Qboid gives Majiir an Artinian instability
<Majiir> !wpn add dissertation
* Qboid gives add dissertation a quintic stinger
<Majiir> ......huh
<Majiir> Qboid's generous with the stinger missiles tonight
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<bofh> I have been on hold with paypal support for almost three fucking hours now.
<Iskierka> use the secret code word
<bofh> which one's that? "go fuck yourselves?"
<bofh> ahh, see, but this isn't techsupport.
<bofh> this is "please give me my fucking money that you are holding in magical limbo for a transaction that was marked as received with a positive ebay review already"
<bofh> like, by their own policy it should have been released yesterday, but it isn't, and the "funds will be available by" estimate is December 31st, 1969.
<bofh> I am 100% serious.
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<Iskierka> Lol did they set the time to -1?
<bofh> APPARENTLY.
<Qboid> 1d 12h 0m 0s left to event #2: Atlas 5 • TDRS M [at 2017-08-18 14:04:00]. Say '!kountdown 2' for details
<bofh> okay after way too fucking long on hold they fixed that in 5 minutes >_>
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<bofh> lmfao freenode accidentally klined the entire network and crashed a few of their servers in the process
<FluffyFoxeh> I didn't get K-Lined
<FluffyFoxeh> :p
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a poisonous irritating comma
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn Fiora
* Qboid gives Fiora a dipole cardinal
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<egg|phone|egg> !kd next
<Qboid> egg|phone|egg: ID: 4 | Name: Благовест №11Л/Бриз-М/Протон-М | Time: 2017-08-16 22:00:00 | Unixtime: 1502920800 | Left: 0d 10h 59m 47s
<Qboid> egg|phone|egg: Description: A Протон-М with Бриз-М upper stage will launch the Экспресс-2000-based Благовест №11Л communications satellite into GEO (see http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/blagovest-1.htm).
<egg|phone|egg> Hmm, no Роскосмос livestream?
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<egg|work|egg> !u ê
<Qboid> U+00EA LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH CIRCUMFLEX (ê)
<egg|work|egg> !u à
<Qboid> U+00E0 LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE (à)
<egg|work|egg> !kd 5
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: ID: 5 | Name: 「みちびき3号機」/H-IIAロケット35号機 | Time: 2017-08-19 04:30:00 | Unixtime: 1503117000 | Left: 1d 17h 0m 38s
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: Description: An H-IIA rocket will launch the DS-2000-based みちびき3号機 navigation spacecraft from 種子島宇宙センター (see http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/qzs-3.htm). https://youtu.be/-bgZYjnN9gQ
<kmath> YouTube - 準天頂衛星システム静止軌道衛星「みちびき3号機」/H-IIAロケット35号機打ち上げ中継
<egg|work|egg> bofh: spaceflight now confirms the time that I got from the livestream (also I got a bug fixed in the formatting of the time of start of livestream, it used AM/PM for all languages this week-end)
<bofh> AM/PMis a system that honestly needs to die. 24hr 4lyfe.
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<egg|work|egg> bofh: use en-GB as a language on YouTube and you will get 24 h clocks now :-)
<egg|work|egg> bofh: you should ask Atlas to resume his FloatingPointWithAtlas series
<Iskierka> The other day I had to filter out dates (trying to compare two filestructures using the dir output) and the regex suggested was *awful* because it used AM/PM
<Iskierka> also dd-mm-yyyy (or possibly mm-dd-yyyy, dunno with muricans) so if they tried to order that output they'd have a nightmare
<Iskierka> meanwhile mine was just ISO date and so much easier
<egg|work|egg> bofh: essentially, set your YouTube language to anything but English (US) or Español (US), and you'll get 24 hour clocks (even Español (Latinoamérica) has sane clocks)
<bofh> ooooooh. done.
<egg|work|egg> bofh: a week ago you would have had 12-hour clocks in some places, but that was a bug and it's fixed :-p
<bofh> thanks
<Qboid> 1d 0h 0m 0s left to event #2: Atlas 5 • TDRS M [at 2017-08-18 14:04:00]. Say '!kountdown 2' for details
<bofh> https://mobile.twitter.com/fordm/status/898175375125164032 today in "Confederate Monuments"
<kmath> <fordm> They're not even good statues. https://t.co/dRQkFg23i6
<bofh> yes, this is real.
<bofh> no, I don't think it was *supposed* to look like a deranged garden gnome
<bofh> but oh gods does it ever
<bofh> rofl it's made of fiberglass and went up in 1998
<bofh> so it doesn't just look like something that belongs on a children's playground, it's made of the same material too.
<bofh> I maintain "Darl Yaes" sounds like a character in a DnD campaign.
<bofh> Dral Yaes*
<Iskierka> they're selling yale?
<NonlocalRaptor> How much can I get the Dragonfly Array for?
<bofh> NonlocalRaptor: probably at deep discount
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* egg|phone|egg confused self with denormals while trying to compute the binary64 ulp distance between arbitrary numbers
<egg|phone|egg> Turns out 1074-1023 is 51 and not 52 so it's fine after all :-p
<bofh> heh
<egg|phone|egg> !Wpn bofh and Fiora
* Qboid gives bofh and Fiora a hypothetical triangle
<Fiora> wah
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<egg|afk|egg> Fiora: also, (belatedly), yes, that's roughly how I'd pronounce Atelier https://twitter.com/Helios748/status/896528697330618369 (vowels are a bit weird though, I'd say [atəlje], and the announcer seems to be saying [atɨljɛ] or something like that)
<kmath> <Helios748> @FioraAeterna @mirihawke Interesting pronunciation of Atelier too. French pronunciation?
<egg|afk|egg> Fiora: and yes, the announcer's vowels on "Shallie" are, uh, creative
<egg|afk|egg> the lesser spotted vowel shift
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<Fiora> egg: i am *amazed* at how he pronounced it. like. how do you screw up that bad
<Fiora> "atelier" has many valid pronounciations so that's okay
<Fiora> but "shallotte" is a literal onion and "shallie" is......... straightforward
<egg> yeah
<Fiora> also the games themselves aren't even consistent with the pronounciation of "atelier", which makes sense because neither are languages
<Fiora> japanese, french, and english all do it differently (and inconsistently) despite it being a loanword
<egg> Fiora: that pronunciation of shallie seems almost like swapping the vowels? it sounds like he's saying [ʃilɛj]
<egg> Fiora: it's not a loanword in french (unless loanword from middle french counts) :-p
<Fiora> i mean, yes. XD
<Fiora> english phrasing is hard
<Fiora> (the japanese also LOVE that word, like, so much. there must be at least 10,000 shops named <X atelier>)
<egg> Fiora: I am semi-tempted to read that number as 10 given the french context :-p
<egg> (periodic reminder that the CGPM recommendation is either , or . for the decimal mark, thin space for thousand sep, explicitly neither , nor . for thousand sep) :-p
<egg> ah no it doesn't say thin space, it says "divided in groups"
<egg> so the swiss-currency-style 10'000 seems to be compliant with CGPM 9 & 22?
<Fiora> point vs comma has to be the worst international mis-standard ever
<egg> ’ as thousand sep in german, space in french, . for decimal mark in german, , in french, ** except for currency which uses . ** :D
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<Iskierka> ’ is at least tangential enough to all the normal notation to be easy enough to figure out
<Iskierka> space is annoying because out of context it may look like multiple numbers
<egg> yeah ’ is not bad
<egg> C++ went with that (well, with ') in literals
<egg> Ada had _
<kmath> <magipojken> @chordbug there i did it, this'll replace "programmer, programming..." my life just got a lot better https://t.co/MgShoDGmpS
<bofh> https://mobile.twitter.com/diodebot/status/898246194828324864 that's what happens if you give a diode nociception... it winds up screaming
<kmath> <diodebot> screaming nociceptive diode
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<egg> !wpn bofh, Iskierka, Fiora
* Qboid gives bofh, Iskierka, Fiora a slow smooth FPGA
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<NonlocalRaptor> Someone just had to walk out because ITAR =\
<NonlocalRaptor> Atmospheric data also
<egg> !wpn NonlocalRaptor
* Qboid gives NonlocalRaptor a feline king/scream hybrid
<egg> bofh: huh, on my machine Mathematica underflows at 10^-(10^15) or thereabouts
<egg> big eggsponents are big
<bofh> so 2^-(3.3*10^15)... huh, that strikes me as them using an arbitrary precision lib since no hwfloat has that exponent range... but in that case, why is there underflow at all?
<egg> bofh: dunno
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<egg> bofh: I think it uses some amount of hardware float (unless you specify a precision in which case it's some weird decimal softfloat)
<egg> bofh: because the MachinePrecision is 15.9546 sig dec :-p
<egg> bofh: so it has binary64 + Really Big Eggsponent
<bofh> huh. that's... strange
<bofh> I guess it makes sense, be fast in binary64 range and only use softfloats when exceeded
<bofh> (also it will eternally bother me that it's not called binary53)
<egg> bofh: well it keeps using binary64 for the mantissa afaict
<egg> bofh: you can use softfloats, but that's separate (that's if you say N[whatever, numberOfSigDec], or WorkingPrecision->stuff etc.)
<egg> bofh: Log2[-Log2[$MinNumber]] is eggstremely close to 52
<egg> bofh: they're using a binary64 for the mantissa and another one for the eggsponent
<egg> or something like that
<bofh> ohhhhhh that might actually be the case
<Qboid> 0d 18h 0m 0s left to event #2: Atlas 5 • TDRS M [at 2017-08-18 14:04:00]. Say '!kountdown 2' for details
<egg> !kd next
<Qboid> egg: ID: 4 | Name: Благовест №11Л/Бриз-М/Протон-М | Time: 2017-08-16 22:00:00 | Unixtime: 1502920800 | Left: 0d 22h 10m 35s
<Qboid> egg: Description: A Протон-М with Бриз-М upper stage will launch the Экспресс-2000-based Благовест №11Л communications satellite into GEO (see http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/blagovest-1.htm).
<egg> WTF, they replaced their eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov pages with redirect to a mess centred on the current eclipse?!!@$#%!@#$
<bofh> aaaaaaaaaargh
<egg> where are the maps of centuries of eclipse paths?
<bofh> "thank", NASA
* NonlocalRaptor ???
<egg> (by the same person actually, Fred Espenak :-p)
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<egg> bofh: huh, given a correct (which is impossible) arc sh, arc sh y/sqrt((x-y)(x+y)) is faithful and very nearly correct
<egg> it goes without saying that arc th y/x is catastrophic :-p
<bofh> huh, did Atlas respond already?
<egg> bofh: ? nah, atlas said nothing, I'm just poking around at things :-p
<egg> bofh: bofh: http://imgur.com/a/6j3pY
<egg> uh that's a lot of bofh
<bofh> huh, one tends to overflow, the other underflow. makes sense.
<bofh> for x^2-y^2 vs (x-y)(x+y)
<egg> (errors in ULPs, all evaluated to a target precision 10 sig dec. with appropriate binary64 roundings)
<egg> bofh: uh, there's no underflow or overflow? it just shows errors
<egg> bofh: also to get that I wrote some silly code that computes ULP distances between arbitrary numbers, since that's all done in arbitrary precision :D
<bofh> egg: okay, but the errors concentrate either at very tiny numbers or very large ones
<bofh> also nice
<bofh> mpfr or some other lib?
<egg> bofh: just Mathematica
<egg> N[whatever, 10] will evaluate whatever to 10 sig dec. assuming whatever doesn't have some Ns in it already
<egg> (not to be confused with N[whatever], which will evaluate whatever *in* machine precision, rather than in arbitrary precision *to* machine precision)
<bofh> Ahh, so *that's* the difference. It confused me the last time I tried dealing with Mathematica (which admittedly was in 2009)
<egg> bofh: yeah, like much of everything in there the APIs have dubious consistency
<egg> bofh: specifically, N[stuff, d] will evaluate to d sig. dec., and will warn if it requires too much precision in internal calculations to reach the target (by default that's 50 sig. dec., can be changed as needed)
<egg> bofh: the code for the thing http://i.imgur.com/qSN35Q4.png
<egg> I don't handle overflow or signs or NaNs :-p
<egg> but other than that, <foo> is the binary64 nearest foo
<egg> bofh: for instance <1/3> returns 6004799503160661/18014398509481984
<NonlocalRaptor> "We've replaced grad students with machines"
<egg> NonlocalRaptor: have they replaced postdocs though
<bofh> egg: handy, going to hold onto this
<egg> bofh: also derp, there are stray 52s in there that should be mantissaBits-1
<bofh> yeah I kinda figured.
<egg> bofh: Round is also a function that works with MaxExtraPrecision (sort of obviously)
<egg> the doc gives the example of Round[-\[Pi]^2 - 2 \[Pi] - 1/2 + (\[Pi] + 1)^2]
<egg> which fails to evaluate because 50 sig dec. are not enough
<egg> (but it simplifies :-p)
<bofh> I was about to say, rearranged there's an equivalent form that's nicer.
<egg> yeah
<bofh> gotta love that non-associativity of fp
<egg> if you call Simplify on it it turns into Round[1/2] and evaluates to 0 :-p
<bofh> Exactly.
<egg> bofh: the stupid tablemaker's dillema
<egg> s/llema/lemma/
<Qboid> egg meant to say: bofh: the stupid tablemaker's dilemma
<egg> dillama
<egg> eggsactly
<egg> bofh: they belong to a tablemaker
<bofh> egg: indeed.
<egg> NonlocalRaptor: yay
* egg gives NonlocalRaptor a toblerone
<bofh> I prefer toblerals
<bofh> or tobleryl esters
<egg> :-p
<NonlocalRaptor> TIL HF at 100 C was used in first generation gas cells for precision radial velocities.
<kmath> <SteveTheChemist> #RealTimeChem https://t.co/QPZmkI9v5c
<egg> bofh: yup. I had seen that
<egg> s/\./,
<Qboid> egg meant to say: bofh: yup, I had seen that
<bofh> tho I disagree with the last one on the bottom
<bofh> erm nevermind
<bofh> wrong link
<egg> NonlocalRaptor: you should come to CH sometime :-p
<egg> to observe the cows probably
<bofh> egg: what's the cheapest way to get from Geneva to where you are, anyhow?
<egg> bofh: hm, from geneva to zurich? I'm not sure; the train is certainly less annoying (trains work really well here), not sure how the aeroplane pricing is but iirc it's very cheap; I have a halbtax so for me the train is cheaper than for you probably
<bofh> yeah, I do know trains work well, I'll have to see what itinerary I got setup for eucas & see how much bitching I need to do w/the department
<bofh> (esp. since I also want to possibly hit videolan dev days in paris for a day or two)
<Iskierka> ;c (1/2)^(3/2)
<kmath> Iskierka: 0.3535533905932738
<egg> bofh: also with the train you can see the countryside :-p
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<bofh> ooooooh that is a nice property
<Iskierka> ... if an orbit with e = 1 and finite apoapsis has about 1/3 the period of a circular orbit of the same apoapsis, does that imply they have the same average speed?
<egg> bofh: I mean with the aeroplanes you can see the mountains* [* if there aren't too many clouds; not for long anyway, it's a tiny flight; restrictions may apply]
<Iskierka> get your own plane and see your own mountains
<bofh> I don't have a pilot's license!
<bofh> (yet, in any case)
<Iskierka> Why would that be a problem? "get" is rather generic
<egg> catstream (but no cat right now) https://www.youtube.com/c/MElizabethScott/live
<bofh> Iskierka: true but if I'm going to go thru the cost of a private flight, I damn well am going to be piloting the thing :P
<Iskierka> That wasn't necessarily the implication either
<bofh> also, halbtax?
<bofh> ahh
<egg> bofh: half price on pretty much everything, very quickly worth it (there's also a generalabo, everything free, but much costlier, not really worth it unless you travel a lot within switzerland)
<bofh> yeah, from what I can see it becomes a good idea if I'm even a month there, possibly less. sadly I'm there a week.
<egg> bofh: clearly you should stay three more weeks :-p
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<egg> Iskierka: hmm, orbits with e=1 are nasty; no idea how the average speed behaves anyway
<egg> bofh, NonlocalRaptor?
<Iskierka> at or at least close to e=1. Random spinoff thought from reminding myself what angle an observer sat will move by in a dive so I can plan for the crash to be visible by the spectrometer
<Iskierka> actually
<Iskierka> No, thought by throwing pi in I might show that it is the same average speed, but doesn't go in tidily
<Iskierka> it does appear to be weirdly close though
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<egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a Лифшиц cipher
<egg> !wpn котя
* Qboid gives котя an oxygen COME FROM
<awang> intercal?
<bofh> egg: orbits with e=1 *are* nasty, but doesn't the Vis-Viva equation not depend on e? just GM, distance and semi-major axis?
<egg> bofh: yes, but how does average speed even behave
<bofh> of course this presents an issue where r *does* depend on e, which is where the fun comes in
<egg> bofh: integrating the speed over the orbit to average it seems unpleasant
<bofh> well semi-major axis is presumably constant by assumption, so average speed feels like it should be proportional to the average of the inverse square root of distance?
<bofh> so this boils down to finding the average distance between the two bodies, or am I being totally off here?
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<Iskierka> point was SMa does vary in the orbit I was looking at; it's exactly half (killed all velocity into freefall)
<bofh> ahh.
<egg> bofh: funnily enough I have completely forgotten why I wanted to evaluate arc th y/x >_>
<egg> something something Kepler orbits probably
<bofh> I can pull up logfiles if you'd like :P
<bofh> iirc, yes
<egg> (it's likely that I shouldn't evaluate it because there are further simplifications upstream that are necessary for the same reason)
<egg> but hey, at least I know how I should evaluate it :D
<bofh> 18:44 <@egg|zzz|egg> bofh: so, fun question: assuming you want to compute arc tg (y/x) close to (and below) y/x = i; should you just divide and use the arc th, or use either of the arc sh or arc ch
<bofh> was the only context I have in logs actually