UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<bofh> ooh, 1 hr until Voyager movie airing
<bofh> (tho my local PBS station apparently will be replaying it at 2AM Friday which might actually be a better time for me, rofl)
<bofh> like I prolly know *most* of what's on it but who knows.
* UmbralRaptor stares at pbs.org, and fails to see a streaming link.
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<UmbralRaptor> …why does the preview require Flash?
<bofh> yeah I think I might just ATSC capture it at 2AM since I have to be in the lab until this shit finishes.
<bofh> (well that or pirate it)
<bofh> <EXPLETIVE DELETED> if I know
* UmbralRaptor ?
<bofh> hey I have a hackrf & gr-atsc, might as well put it to good use :P
<UmbralRaptor> hah
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<kmath> <justinhendrix> 2/ August 20th is the 40th anniversary of the 1977 launch of @NSFVoyager2, the first of two Voyager probes to explore the outer planets.
<SnoopJeDi> (nothing earth-shattering (heh), but nice all the same)
<bofh> SnoopJeDi: yeah I RTed a good chunk of it on the 20th :P
<SnoopJeDi> as soon as I'd shared it I thought "hmm he's perhaps already seen this"
<SnoopJeDi> I could not watch the documentary live tonight unfortunately, could have sworn I get our local PBS station OTA but maybe my antenna is too weak
<SnoopJeDi> Will just have to watch it tomorrow!
<bofh> yeah I'll get gr-atsc working later tonight once I'm done here
<SnoopJeDi> LOL
<SnoopJeDi> hah, I'd forgotten about this: http://i.imgur.com/9zvpi6d.png
<bofh> LOL
<UmbralRaptor> o_O
<ferram4> ...they're not wrong?
<Iskierka> but are they right?
<Iskierka> https://youtu.be/uNjxe8ShM-8 I imagine most people will see this on twitter soon but I'mma dump it now
<kmath> YouTube - On The Turing Completeness of PowerPoint (SIGBOVIK)
<SnoopJeDi> SIGBOVIK is amazing and I wish I felt like making more time to read more of it
<SnoopJeDi> tom7's executable paper was particularly cute
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<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: bofh: well it's missing the context, but this just seems to be the usual trick of turning things into a first-order ODE?
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<egg|work|egg> !kd next
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: ID: 4 | Name: Благовест №11Л/Бриз-М/Протон-М | Time: 2017-08-16 22:00:00 | Unixtime: 1502920800 | Left: 7d 11h 48m 53s
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: Description: A Протон-М with Бриз-М upper stage will launch the Экспресс-2000-based Благовест №11Л communications satellite into GEO (see http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/blagovest-1.htm).
<egg|work|egg> Thomas: kd next is borkened?
<egg|work|egg> !kd 6
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: ID: 6 | Name: 福爾摩沙衛星五號/Falcon 9 v1.2 | Time: 2017-08-24 18:50:00 | Unixtime: 1503600600 | Left: 0d 9h 0m 46s
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: Description: A Falcon 9 v1.2 will launch FORMOSAT 5 (福爾摩沙衛星五號, http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/formosat-5.htm) from Vandenberg SLC-4E into a heliosynchronous orbit for the NSPO (國家太空中心). First stage barge landing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4u3ZN2g_MI
<kmath> YouTube - Formosat-5 Mission
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* UmbralRaptor stares at email.
<UmbralRaptor> Patrick,Now you can support Honor Society — and get rewarded when you make a purchase. There is no limit to the amount of rewards you can earn.1 Apply for the Honor Society Visa® card today. In addition to your $50 bonus,1 you'll get these other great benefits:
* UmbralRaptor pokes class schedules.
* UmbralRaptor may have all to legitimate reasons to be on campus past 10 pm.
<UmbralRaptor> *too
* UmbralRaptor notes that bus service ends at 8-10pm, depending on the route.
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<bofh> that's utter bullshit
<bofh> (I say this as the person that just allnightered in a campus lab)
<UmbralRaptor> Still better than KC, where you seem to get 2 morning/2 evening/0 weekend buses.
<UmbralRaptor> (last one is out at 5)
<SnoopJeDi> egg|afk|egg, well yes, it's setting up Hamilton's equations, but I particularly enjoy "follow us through this complex rearrangement" for just flipping a two-term equality
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<kmath> <queuethorn> mom: what's that internet thing called, "scream shitting"? me: ... me: shitposting? mom: SHITPOSTING.
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<SnoopJeDi> wait, bofh does that documentary premiere *tonight* or last night?
<SnoopJeDi> the voyager doc
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: I think last night on TV, tonight on YT?
<SnoopJeDi> they'd said available the next day but I haven't checked yet
<SnoopJeDi> Oh yep available streaming now, woo
<egg|afk|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a 2N3904
egg|afk|egg is now known as egg
<egg> !wpn whitequark and Fiora
* Qboid gives whitequark and Fiora a comma/square hybrid
<egg> !u ⸬
<Qboid> U+2E2C SQUARED FOUR DOT PUNCTUATION (⸬)
<UmbralRaptor> Hm. Schedule conflict between Numerical Analysis and Methods of Observational Astronomy
* UmbralRaptor blames egg
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<egg|ironing|egg> UmbralRaptor: hmm
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<egg> UmbralRaptor: so I guess technically you could take a course in Numerical Analysis given by bofh and I over IRC? :-p
* UmbralRaptor wonders what egg's [Fe/H] is.
<UmbralRaptor> egg: Quite possibly!
<egg> UmbralRaptor: so in principle, since you have a way of learning about the former without taking that course, but not so for the latter, you should take the latter; but that argument works only if you actually do poke at numerics in here :-p
<UmbralRaptor> hm
<egg> UmbralRaptor: see also me taking maths rather than CS
<egg> !wpn Fiora
* Qboid gives Fiora a Schwarzschild high-voltage homomorphism
<SnoopJeDi> CS may be the most overrated
<egg> bofh: whitequark: I wonder how you pronounce "smol", for some reason I'm inclined to pronounce it [smɔl] rather than [smoːl] (which is how I pronounce "small")
<egg> ... but apparently in some accents "small" is pronounced [smɔl]? D:
* egg stabs english phonology
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<egg> bofh: yeah apparently in american small is [smɔl]... how do you pronounce smol then :-p
<bofh> sec, let me get to my desk since typing IPA on phone is a pain in the arse
<Ellied> egg: usually "small" is said more like "smahl" while smol is more "smole"
<Ellied> if you will excuse my ignorance of the IPA
<SnoopJeDi> one smol pupper, please
<egg> Ellied: that... that sounds like the reverse of what I'd say
<egg> Ellied: I think my pronunciation of small is more en-GB than en-US?
<Ellied> perhaps
<Iskierka> according to the one IPA-to-speech generator I found smol is [smɔl] with the shortest [ɔ] possible
<Iskierka> some accents may default to [smɔl] anyway but with a longer less emphatically short [ɔ]
<egg> Iskierka: well [smɔl] with a very short ɔ is how I'd say smol
<egg> it *has* to sound a bit silly, right :-p
<Iskierka> ofc
<egg> Iskierka: tbh I don't think there's a decent IPA to speech, the one I found also garbles [e] and says [ɛ] instead
<Iskierka> this is the one I got to: https://itinerarium.github.io/phoneme-synthesis/
<Iskierka> though it does pronounce those the same
<egg> yeah found the same
<egg> Iskierka: confusing those is an issue semantically in french :-p
<egg> SnoopJeDi: that would be good, but I don't see a way to input IPA :-p
<Iskierka> I looked at espeak (the core generator) and it does have language options that may be locked into english on that site
<SnoopJeDi> Be the pull request you want to see in the world, egg ;P
<Iskierka> possibly in french it would figure it out
<SnoopJeDi> I remember poking at the JS that drives that a bit to see if I could teach it to string phonemes together, but I gave up
<SnoopJeDi> IIRC I wanted to make it say "John Madden John Madden John Madden"
<SnoopJeDi> because it reminds me an awful lot of the speech synth in Moonbase Alpha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6RbEOlqRo
<kmath> YouTube - Moonbase Alpha provides a realistic simulation of life on a natural satellite
<Iskierka> that's just the microsoft synthesis isn't it?
<SnoopJeDi> sounds like it yes
* egg pokes UmbralRaptor in the numerics
* UmbralRaptor exhibits severe instability.
<Iskierka> Sarbian, is exectue all nodes supposed to truncate a node that overlaps another? This seems like the opposite behaviour to what I would have wanted
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<egg> bofh: huh, there are 5 rounding modes but C only provides access to 4?
<egg> tbh nearest ties away is daft
<Ellied> http://www.aafp.org/afp/2006/0801/p449.html <- a reasonably good description of my last 72 hours or so.
<Ellied> Turns out switching to only bupropion after being on S(S|N)RIs for a while doesn't work for me (although for the four or so days I was on both, I felt pretty good).
<UmbralRaptor> meep
<egg> bofh: ... the non-implicit bit on x87 extended precision is weird
<egg> bofh: it seems it can actually be ignored, being redundant with the eggsponent?
<egg> bofh: Ꙩ_ꙩ WTF is IEEE 754-2008 9.2 saying
<egg> bofh: correctly rounding transcendental functions? isn't that just impossible?
<Fiora> no it's not
<Fiora> it's impossible -in the general case-
<Fiora> however for any limited amount of precision, there's only so many possible inputs
<egg> Fiora: right, but in practice still too many to implement a correctly-rounded transcendental function
<Fiora> not really. for any given precision N, there is likely an internal precision M that is sufficient to achieve correct rounding
<Fiora> it's just that M grows much faster than N
<egg> yes
<Fiora> i'm fairly sure it's quite doable for f32/f64
<Fiora> definitely f32
<egg> uh
<egg> doable, yes, but would anyone actually use such an implementation of the usual functions
<egg> right, there's always the option of doing multiprecision until you can round
<egg> didn't realize it had become fast enough to be usable
<Fiora> note also the proof
<Fiora> it's fast enough because for most inputs you don't need to do much
<egg> yes
<Fiora> i mean obviously it's still not very fast.
<egg> right.
<Fiora> so as usual: turing doesn't say it's impossible, it says it's not guaranteed to terminate ;-)
<egg> Fiora: like, this seems a bit like a niche libm implementation vs. something faster but faithfully-often-correctly-rounded; I'm still rather surprised that IEEE 754-2008 would recommend that you require that in your language standard
<egg> Fiora: is it that it's not guaranteed to terminate, or that you can find inputs that will make it arbitrarily long
<Fiora> hmm, good question
<Fiora> "No general way exists to predict how many extra digits will have to be carried to compute a transcendental expression and round it correctly to some preassigned number of digits. Even the fact (if true) that a finite number of extra digits will ultimately suffice may be a deep theorem."
<egg> oh fun
<egg> so we don't know whether it is true that it terminates for all inputs :D
<Fiora> oh this is extra fun:
<Fiora> There exist computable numbers for which a rounded value can never be determined no matter how many digits are calculated. Specific instances cannot be given but this follows from the undecidability of the halting problem.
<Fiora> For instance, if Goldbach's conjecture is true but unprovable, then the result of rounding the following value up to the next integer cannot be determined: 10−n where n is the first even number greater than 4 which is not the sum of two primes, or 0 if there is no such number. The result is 1 if such a number exists and 0 if no such number exists.
<Fiora> that's 10^-n
<egg> ah yes of course :D
<Fiora> i love the whole "use gadgets to convert various unsolved problems into other ones"
<Fiora> oh also that first one is a kahan quote
<egg> yeah I had heard it already
<egg> though I had forgotten what it eggsactly said apparently :-p
<egg> Fiora: and yup, "use gadgets to convert various unsolved problems into other ones" is fun
<egg> Fiora: also when a mathematician manages to do that they're very happy :-p
<egg> "this is true assuming the Riemann hypothesis!"
<egg> (or assuming the generalized Riemann hypothesis)
<egg> speaking of Goldbach, "In 1997 Deshouillers, Effinger, te Riele, and Zinoviev showed that the generalized Riemann hypothesis implies that every odd number greater than 5 is the sum of three primes.
<egg> "
<egg> Fiora: that's more advanced: take an unsolved problem, tweak it, and then prove that using another unsolved problem :-p
<Fiora> ehehhehehe
<egg> (I would say something about brains of expanding magnitudes, but I'm not very good at that)
<egg> the ascending brain condition on principal ideals
<egg> Fiora: unrelated to floating-point (well, barrel shifters, but anyway) why barrels?
<Fiora> i dunno, ask final fantasy why moogles
<Fiora> or dragon quest why slimes
<bofh> egg: so like there's prolly hundreds of theorems in analytic number theory now that start with "Assuming the [Extended] Riemann Hypothesis is true, ..."
<egg> Fiora: no, I mean, I'm missing context, what role do they play in Atelier
<egg> bofh: yeah
<Fiora> they're a running gag
<egg> bofh: tbh, there are also theorems that start with "Using Deligne's theorems", and the author has no idea how they work :-p
<Fiora> a consistent design element.
<egg> ah
<Fiora> a motif
<Fiora> i mean like much in the way moogles keep showing up in final fantasy but are rarely particularly useful beyond being things to kick
* egg hasn't played final fantasy
<egg> bofh: I literally had a lecture about using Deligne's theorems as a black box
<bofh> egg: rofl what
<egg> that lecture was extremely quickly incomprehensible, because I had no idea *what* we were using them for
<egg> so it was about using a black box to prove something about a series that appears in another black box
<bofh> oh, so this is literally a case of "it's turtles all the way down", except with ZFC instead of the Discworld?
<bofh> Ellied: so I've heard SSRI discontinuation be compared disfavourably to heroin withdrawal by randoms on /r/drugs that claim to have experienced both, so...
<Ellied> wow
<egg> bofh: so this was a course about really cutting edge stuff, it was by emmanuel kowalski
<bofh> egg: round to nearest ties away just seems silly
<egg> true
<bofh> there's *prolly* a use-case for it but I honestly can't think of one.
<Fiora> bofh: wow. i've undergone ssri withdrawal but it wasn't nearly that bad
<Fiora> i mean, caffeine withdrawal is way worse.
<bofh> Fiora: so I suspect it depends on dose, medication and patient.
<egg> bofh: it was about bounding Kloosterman sums
<Fiora> yeah, true, i've never taken a high dose
<Ellied> Fiora: I imagine it varies a lot from person to person; that link I posted said only like 30% of discontinuations actually developed those symptoms
<egg> also, where are my manners,
<egg> !wpn bofh, Ellied, and Fiora
* Qboid gives bofh, Ellied, and Fiora a quadrupole ␕
<Ellied> and uh, this is way,way worse than any caffeine withdrawal or even overdose I've had before
<bofh> Fiora: I've personally known people that stopped SSRIs suddenly and experienced mild effects, I've also known a person that managed to have akathisia, mood swings and general anxiety for *months* after discontinuing it after a month, but they had a horrible reaction to it from the start.
<Fiora> my one recent (as in, past few years) experience with caffeine withdrawal was in the hospital when i forgot to mention i needed to take caffeine regularly and hit withdrawal
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn egg, bofh, Fiora, Ellied
* Qboid gives egg, bofh, Fiora, Ellied a Kozai Ebers-Moll raptor
<Fiora> and uh
<Ellied> what's akathisia?
<Fiora> they asked me what level of pain i was in. i think it was like a 7, continuous. higher than my worst migraine
<Ellied> Fiora: ouch
<bofh> egg: I'd much prefer a quadrupole mass spec
<Fiora> my roommate ran and fetched a caffeine pill. 15 minutes, it was gone.
<UmbralRaptor> eek
<Fiora> so in a way, caffeine withdrawal is less bad since it's way, way easier to manage.
<Ellied> I at least got rid of the headache after the first few hours on this one
* UmbralRaptor 's experience with caffeine withdrawl has varied between annoying fatigue and vomiting multiple times,
<bofh> Fiora: jesus fuck, but I'd believe it 100%. back when I suffered caffeine withdrawal when taking only caffeine, I'd rate that headache a 6.
<Fiora> that was a rare case where i went cold turkey for 2-3 days
<Fiora> accidentally
<egg> cold turkey?
<Fiora> as in, no drop off in dose, just straight off
<Fiora> ~400mg a day -> 0
<bofh> nowadays the other stimulants I'm on take care of vasoconstriction so my caffeine withdrawal instead winds up with me being listless, unmotivated and really morose.
<Ellied> Mostly I just feel like there's a thunderstorm trapped in my head, complete with wind, dense clouds, distracting sounds, and lightning strikes.
<bofh> which is "great" b/c my brain is absolutely amazing at finding ways to justify why I'm sad in that state that have nothing to do with caffeine withdrawal and everything to do with "oh hey you're actually a miserable failure at life"
<Ellied> oh yeah, I'm awesome at rationalizing depression too
<Ellied> insert that little upside-down smiley here because I haven't bothered to put it in my xcompose
<Fiora> i think i've become incredibly used to depression because it's such a natural state to me.
<Fiora> insomuch as i rarely go overboard rationalizing it
<Fiora> though it feels like there are multiple distinct states that people would call "depression"
<Ellied> sounds like yours is mostly in remission?
<Fiora> that doesn't sound like the right term?
<Fiora> rather, my baseline state is depression
<Fiora> there is no "remission"
<Fiora> "not being depressed" means finding ways out of the baseline
<Fiora> but given a lack of that, the baseline always returns
<bofh> Ouch.
<Fiora> i dunno? ouch seems weird. it's fairly predictable!
<Fiora> and like. depression doesn't hurt? it's an emptiness, not a pain
<bofh> True. It just sounds kind of... like it feels like a very frustrating existence.
<Fiora> i don't think so! frustrating is when you can't escape, i think?
<bofh> True.
<Fiora> a brainstate that actually reacts to attempts to change it is anything but frustrating.
<bofh> Like... a lot of this is filtered thru my perspective, which is of someone who comparatively rarely(?) is depressed.
<bofh> Tho it's not the emptiness that I find bothersome at all, it's the general lack of motivation.
<bofh> And so like usually being in that state consisted of trying frantically to escape out of it. I guess it wouldn't be frustrating if getting out of it was something consistent or semi-deterministic.
<bofh> amazing there are clear-channel reggaeton-themed FM stations here, the music is about as bad as you'd expect from that description
<whitequark> bofh: Ellied: try SNRI withdrawal, venlafaxine specifically
<whitequark> google it
<whitequark> virtually everyone describes it as one of the worst experiences in their life, and people who tried heroin, yes, say heroin compares favorably
<whitequark> (not that heroin withdrawal is such a disastrous experience per se, but it's not exactly pleasant)
<UmbralRaptor> …why are nightmares one of the withdrawal symptoms? o_O
<whitequark> it's a serotonergic
<whitequark> like all classical hallucinogens
<whitequark> you see nightmares as side effects or withdrawal symptoms with all serotonergics, one way or another
<whitequark> e.g. anti-migraine pills based on ergot derivatives
<whitequark> 5HT-2A mediated usually, as far as I know
* UmbralRaptor meeps
<bofh> Yep, I think it's always 5HT-2A as well.
<whitequark> it's a combination antiretroviral / classical halluincogen!
<bofh> that one's amazing
<whitequark> also dat structure
<whitequark> it has uh... a lactone, a lactam, an alkyne and a cyclopropane in a single molecule
<whitequark> depending on how you look at it
<whitequark> "Efavirenz appears to have neurotoxicity, possibly by interfering with mitochondrial function" oh good
<whitequark> "but also possibly by disrupting mitochondrial membranes or by interfering with nitric oxide signalling" nice
<whitequark> "or through activity at the 5-HT2A receptor, but efavirenz interacts with many CNS receptors, so this is not clear" great
<whitequark> what an amazing drug
<bofh> oh wow I hadn't even known about that.
<bofh> I wonder what other CNS receptors it interacts with
<bofh> whitequark: it's also an MAOI and an M1 antagonist
<bofh> and another paper suggests possibly cannabinoid effects too? this is such an amazing drug