raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<egg|laptop|egg_> > just airdrop them
* egg|laptop|egg_ slaps mofh with the ∆𝑣 between the INTEGRAL orbit and a reentering trajectory
<egg|laptop|egg_> (admittedly it's highly eggscentric so maybe at apogee it's OK?
<egg|laptop|egg_> iximeow: how do you focus with a CCD
<egg|laptop|egg_> my jupiter is stupidly blurry,
<iximeow> egg: i've never been able to focus very well with planets, i'm not sure how people do particularly good images
<iximeow> i think one of the things is just taking lots of short exposure images and hoping there's some where atmosphere plays nice
<egg|laptop|egg_> alternatively, did venus acquire moons
<iximeow> um
<egg|laptop|egg_> iximeow: the bayer filter is very obvious on planet raws :-p
<iximeow> oof
<iximeow> egg: there was a 61.2mp full frame sensor announced recently and i'm more excited than i should be
<iximeow> i'm gonna get the mono one and stop worrying about bayering :3
<egg|laptop|egg_> yeah not even a trace of bands on those jupiter images
<iximeow> ouch
<iximeow> maybe seeing issues?
<egg|laptop|egg_> iximeow: yeah the focus seems to be meh but not catastrophic, the moons are 10-20 pixels across and probably as good as they'll get with the atmosphere
<iximeow> pixel size?
<egg|laptop|egg_> (pixels counted in the raw image and also i can't count)
<egg|laptop|egg_> iximeow: https://i.imgur.com/khv6WzS.jpg
<egg|laptop|egg_> colour balance intentionally fucked so that the moons are visible
<iximeow> colimnation a bit off?
<egg|laptop|egg_> dunno
<iximeow> red and blue are a bit more offset than i'd expect
<egg|laptop|egg_> no idea how to do focus properly so that's probably the primary issue beyond atmosphere
<iximeow> :D
<egg|laptop|egg_> fairly low on the horizon so atmosphere is a thing
<iximeow> yeah that doesn't help
<iximeow> lets see...
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<egg|laptop|egg_> polar alignment is fucked but at 50 ms who cares
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<iximeow> fyi https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5QgkPmVUAEOJ_D.jpg:large was at about 30deg alt and that was pretty obviously affected by atmosphere
<egg|laptop|egg_> yeah but you have bands
<iximeow> yeah
<egg|laptop|egg_> blurriness seems similar?
<egg|laptop|egg_> but bands, instead of venus-with-moons
<iximeow> oh! that's how all yours look?
<iximeow> drop exposure a bit
<egg|laptop|egg_> hm
<iximeow> if i have enough exposure to see moons its also venus
<iximeow> or very close
<egg|laptop|egg_> iximeow: I don't think I'm saturating
<mofh> win 20
<iximeow> win xp
<egg|laptop|egg_> iximeow: and if I do the colour balance at pixel range, I get venus-without-moons
<egg|laptop|egg_> very venus-coloured, beige
<egg|laptop|egg_> except there are jovian moons if I balance the venus to saturation
<iximeow> egg: how do you have gain/iso set?
<egg|laptop|egg_> highest dynamic range, so that's lowest gain
<iximeow> drat
<egg|laptop|egg_> maybe jupiter isn't wearing belts today
<iximeow> if seeing is poor and it's low on the horizon, try bringing up gain and exposure at ~10ms?
<egg|laptop|egg_> or maybe the sky is just shit
<egg|laptop|egg_> iximeow: I can try shorter eggsposures (not sure I even need to bring up the gain, it's really bright)
<egg|laptop|egg_> will do so tomorrow
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<kmath> <spacermase> Chemistry Twitter: is there a simple way to convert Berman-Brown Gibbs free energy values into standard Gibbs free… https://t.co/FsNg54GvMc
<UmbralRaptor> (in case anyone here knows)
<mofh> UmbralRaptor: I mean what the heck is "standard" Gibbs free energy?
<mofh> anyhow I used to actually know how to convert between conventions off the top of my head but it's been many, many years
<mofh> also I swear I've only ever seen Berman-Brown used in geochemistry for w/e reason.
<UmbralRaptor> hrm
<UmbralRaptor> Uh, she's doing stuff related to geochemistry
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2151: Use Ephemeris::Guard to protect the computation of the prognostication - https://git.io/fjnzH
<uovo> wait what, i thought i had labeled this pull request yesterday night
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: um, my images are completely inconsistent with my darks
<egg|laptop|egg> i think i might have fucked up the camera settings
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2151: Use Ephemeris::Guard to protect the computation of the prognostication - https://git.io/fjnzH
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3582/
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: tfw no dark https://i.imgur.com/v7Ha7rY.jpg
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptor: ^
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3582/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2151: Use Ephemeris::Guard to protect the computation of the prognostication - https://git.io/fjnob
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3583/
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3583/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2151: Use Ephemeris::Guard to protect the computation of the prognostication - https://git.io/fjnKz
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3584/
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3584/
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2151: Use Ephemeris::Guard to protect the computation of the prognostication - https://git.io/fjn6q
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3585/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3585/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2151: Use Ephemeris::Guard to protect the computation of the prognostication - https://git.io/fjnzH
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3586/
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<iximeow> egg: you also have what appears to want to be a cluster of some sort
<iximeow> (what sensor do you have? i'm very curious about the horizontal banding)
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2152: Speed up debug tests - https://git.io/fjnPv
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3586/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3587/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2090: Remove Ephemeris::ForgetBefore - https://git.io/fhhyl
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2151: Use Ephemeris::Guard to protect the computation of the prognostication - https://git.io/fjnzH
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±27] https://git.io/fjnPq
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy a09adf9 - Use the guards and remove check in the Ephemeris.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy 24a8aca - Merge branch '2090' into 2090b
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy 57d0601 - Merge.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] ... and 3 more commits.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2152: Speed up debug tests - https://git.io/fjnPv
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3587/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2152: Speed up debug tests - https://git.io/fjnPv
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] https://git.io/fjnP7
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy b043505 - Speed up debug tests.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy 80be4b3 - Merge pull request #2152 from pleroy/BaseTests Speed up debug tests
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: meow
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: the cluster is M107
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: the instrument is a ZWO ASI178MC-cool
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: banding isn't an issue when I don't screw up camera settings so that I don't have appropriate darks
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #1841: Show ☊ and ☋ with respect to the equator in body-centred inertial frames - https://git.io/fjnXW
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin edited a comment on issue #1841: Show ☊ and ☋ with respect to the equator in body-centred inertial frames - https://git.io/fjnXW
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2153: A better reference plane for the the ECI etc. frames. - https://git.io/fjnDE
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin edited pull request #2153: A better reference plane for the the ECI etc. frames. - https://git.io/fjnDE
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3588/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2153: A better reference plane for the the ECI etc. frames. - https://git.io/fjnDE
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3588/
<egg|laptop|egg> !u ♈︎;
<galois> ♈: U+2648 ARIES
<galois> ︎: U+fe0e VARIATION SELECTOR-15
<galois> ;: U+003b SEMICOLON
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3589/
<UmbralRaptop> … Does Principia have variables that use variation selectors?
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<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn answer
<galois> Added wpn 'answer'
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn word
<galois> Added wpn 'word'
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn question
<galois> Added wpn 'question'
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn comment
<galois> Added wpn 'comment'
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn cormorant
<galois> Added wpn 'cormorant'
<SnoopJeDi> !wpn -add:wpn certificate
<galois> Added wpn 'certificate'
<SnoopJeDi> !wpn -add:adj expired
<galois> Added adj 'expired'
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:adj vulpine
<galois> Added adj 'vulpine'
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:adj fire
<galois> Added adj 'fire'
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn fox
<galois> Entry already exists!
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: the declination dial says Nice degrees
<SnoopJeDi> !wpn -add:wpn hotfix
<galois> Added wpn 'hotfix'
<egg|laptop|egg> problem: I'm pointing to something which is 19 degrees in apparent declination
<SnoopJeDi> I am so grumpy about every aspect of this bug >:(
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: now there can be right angles from the dovetails etc., but how does Nice become equivalent to 19
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: also the VS is in a comment, not an identifier
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: how does M3 sound
<UmbralRaptop> Seems reasonable
<UmbralRaptop> uh, 19 degrees altitude?
* UmbralRaptop only knows of declination on the celestial sphere
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<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: declination in the usual sense not altitude
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: imaging m3 atm
<iximeow> !
<egg|laptop|egg> first 60 s eggsposure has everything double, not sure if vibrations of egg or atmosphere
<egg|laptop|egg> 2nd and 3rd eggsposures semidecent
<iximeow> double is probably vibration
<egg|laptop|egg> maybe the eggsposure is too long
<egg|laptop|egg> hm yeah the stars trail a bit at times
<egg|laptop|egg> !choose 10|30|keep going at 60
<galois> egg|laptop|egg: Your options: 10, 30, keep going at 60. My choice: 10
<iximeow> how long are eggsposures?
<egg|laptop|egg> ;choose 10|30|keep going at 60
<iximeow> oh
<kmath> egg|laptop|egg: 30
<egg|laptop|egg> for maximum indecision iximeow should recommend 60
<egg|laptop|egg> 5th eggsposure is good
<egg|laptop|egg> polar alignment is decent enough for this, trailing happens but is nondeterministic so probably atmosphere/vibrations fucking things up
<egg|laptop|egg> (this time i bothered to take the scope outside and used the polar scope)
<iximeow> it could be periodic error on the mount too
<iximeow> that's what i'd suspect tbh
<iximeow> (i have some images from last night with fun obvious periodic error effects :( )
<egg|laptop|egg> ah yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> I should read up about that PEC functionality someday
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: iximeow: how good/tricky of a target is M51
<iximeow> great target, farily bright
<iximeow> highly recommend
<UmbralRaptop> light pollution is the only real concern
<iximeow> it's one of my 'do i have things set up right' tests this time of year
<UmbralRaptop> (though less than for M101?)
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: it's high so should be OK
<egg|laptop|egg> only the horizons are fucked (until fog comes)
<iximeow> (ixi secretly <3 m51 because it's the galaxy used in a lot of homeworld art)
* egg|laptop|egg schedules 10 more 60 s eggsposures of M3
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: should i go down to 30 s to limit losses or is that not useful
<iximeow> losses?
<iximeow> oh lost frames
<egg|laptop|egg> yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> then again i have a buch at 60 already so that would make calibration etc. a pain
<iximeow> yeah
<egg|laptop|egg> I already need to take new darks because mine are all at 10...
<egg|laptop|egg> (they're old too, not sure how much that matters)
<iximeow> a long series of shorter exposures works well at 12/14 bpp for me
<iximeow> but at 8bpp it's no good
<egg|laptop|egg> what's bbpppp
<iximeow> (that's due to noise properties of my sensor mainly)
<iximeow> bits per pixel
<egg|laptop|egg> ah
<egg|laptop|egg> I'm at maximum gain here (lowest read noise), multiple settings would mean MOAR DARKS which I'm not sure I want :-p
<egg|laptop|egg> hey another double frame
<egg|laptop|egg> and another one
<egg|laptop|egg> hm, maybe it's the wind
<egg|laptop|egg> very light breeze
<egg|laptop|egg> doesn't seem to correlate with my movement or lack thereof all that much
<egg|laptop|egg> even though this laptop is at the end of the USB cable that goes into the instrument
<egg|laptop|egg> oh hey a good frame
<iximeow> \o/
<egg|laptop|egg> it does track nicely when I bother to do the polar alignment
<egg|laptop|egg> these long eggsposures are much cleaner than short ones, hopefully the alignment algorithm actually has a chance of seeing stars this time
<egg|laptop|egg> pointing th estars by hand is tedious
<iximeow> what are you using for processing?
<egg|laptop|egg> hey satellite naked eye visible at the zenith
<iximeow> !
<iximeow> sunrise soon
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: what? it's midnight
<iximeow> so it is
<egg|laptop|egg> !choose more M 3 eggsposures | navigate to M 51
<galois> egg|laptop|egg: Your options: more M 3 eggsposures , navigate to M 51. My choice: more M 3 eggsposures
* iximeow time is very miscalibrated from having not really slept in ~32hr
<egg|laptop|egg> ;choose more M 3 eggsposures | navigate to M 51
<kmath> egg|laptop|egg: more M 3 eggsposures
* egg|laptop|egg 10 more M 3 eggsposures
<egg|laptop|egg> it's cold
<egg|laptop|egg> maybe i should put on another pair of trousers
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: okay it has drifted to the side quite a bit
<egg|laptop|egg> the bulk of the cluster is still distinctly in frame though
<egg|laptop|egg> okay i should probably adjust
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: iximeow; i forget, do i need the instrument to be in the telescope for darks or is that just flats
<egg|laptop|egg> (pretty sure i'll give up on flats&biases)
<UmbralRaptop> Probably safer to do darks while still attached to the scope
<egg|laptop|egg> blarg
<egg|laptop|egg> uovo: can i do flats on horizon skyglow
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop not uovo
<egg|laptop|egg> also if i do flats at the same duration as my eggsposures and darks can i get away without bias
<egg|laptop|egg> (i.e. darks = bias)
<iximeow> egg: imo darks can be done anywhere as long as you've got the sensor nice and dark
<iximeow> also, yes, that's a fun trick
<egg|laptop|egg> anyway enough M3
<egg|laptop|egg> going to put on additional trousers and sglovse and then m51
<egg|laptop|egg> coooooold
<UmbralRaptop> They're the wrong trousers, Grommit! And they've gone wrong!
* UmbralRaptop isn't sure how fast skyglow falls off
<UmbralRaptop> !choose Nick Park | Nick Land
<galois> UmbralRaptop: Your options: Nick Park , Nick Land. My choice: Nick Land
<UmbralRaptop> (very cursed thought)
<egg|laptop|egg> oh wow M51 is at 87 deg alt
<egg|laptop|egg> this is going to be painful
<iximeow> painful? 87 sounds nice
<egg|laptop|egg> yes but finding it
<egg|laptop|egg> there i anay to put a iagonral on the finder but it involes cha9cge itr tole iusal back not doing that in the dark wich all instruments set up
<egg|laptop|egg> therefor ow
<iximeow> yay
<iximeow> egg: jupiter wore belts last night
<UmbralRaptop> bleah
* UmbralRaptop feels burned out on relativity
<UmbralRaptop> Like this class has been at least 2/3 symbol pushing. With most of the fun physics seemingly as hidden as possible >_<
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: having trouble finding it
<egg|laptop|egg> i am close from finder star hopping but can't see shit with test eggsposures
<egg|laptop|egg> you had a site to figure out what's in a picture iirc?
<iximeow> specifically http://nova.astrometry.net/upload
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: okay http://nova.astrometry.net/user_images/2821726#original was a bit too ambitious
<iximeow> :D
<iximeow> wow smol field
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: haha long focal
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: ohno i got lost again
<iximeow> ctrl+f m51
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: do they have a star map
<egg|laptop|egg> stellarium doesn't have rearly enough stars to hop with this smol field
<iximeow> not a very useful one, but https://telescopius.com/ works well ime
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: that works
<egg|laptop|egg> thansk
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: also lol i'm navigating with 30 s exposures halp
<iximeow> can you get your stuff to do any binning? i used to bin as aggressively as possible and navigate by bright stars
<egg|laptop|egg> crap the frame is now empty
<egg|laptop|egg> oh.
<egg|laptop|egg> clouds.
<egg|laptop|egg> welp.
<iximeow> boo
<egg|laptop|egg> the forecast was cloudless til sunrise
<egg|laptop|egg> therefore these clouds don't exist
<egg|laptop|egg> but they look like they're going to not exist on the whole sky so going to stop bothering with M51
<egg|laptop|egg> maybe a few jupiter images
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: belts flickering on and off at 5 ms
<egg|laptop|egg> very wobbly with this atmosphere
<iximeow> \o/
<egg|laptop|egg> okay i should try taking some flats
<egg|laptop|egg> iximeow: UmbralRaptop wait if i take my flats on light pollution, given the bayaer filter, they won't workr nicely right?
<UmbralRaptop> hrm
<UmbralRaptop> Depends on the nature of the pollution
<egg|laptop|egg> distant
<egg|laptop|egg> so that might help
<iximeow> also, if you greyscale the image, i think that should be fine?
<UmbralRaptop> Sodium vapor will work very poorly, mercury vapor also poorly. Incandescent or Ellied should be fine
<UmbralRaptop> (sorry, couldn't resist the pun)
<egg|laptop|egg> there's probably a lot of sodium vapour
<egg|laptop|egg> UmbralRaptop: is it better if it bounces off nearby clouds or if it scatters over a longer amount of ~air