raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<mofh> 23:41:18 <@egg|z|egg> how do i describe satellite orbits in the presence of weird perturbations that i potentially can't model without being eaten by a singularity when e is smol
<mofh> i feel like you're now getting into "reimplementing NASA HORIZONS" levels of compleggsity
<egg|z|egg> what? no, HORIZONS doesn't do anything interesting
<egg|z|egg> its elements are all osculating and boring
<B787_300> Mofh more like getting close to GMAT
<egg|z|egg> mofh: and its ephemeris hodgepodge not really nicely documented/choosable like the ИПА РАН orIMCCE ones
<egg|z|egg> honestly at this point if you need anything from HORIZONS that relates to the planets and their natural satellites I would recommend running away from JPL and towards either of the other two
<egg|z|egg> IMCCE recently redesigned their ephemeris formular
<mofh> I mean I mostly use HORIZONS for spacecraft ephemerides
<mofh> But yeah, agreed, I've switched to IMCCE for most everything else.
<galois> title: IMCCE - News - Ouverture des formulaires de calcul d'éphémérides de l'IMCCE
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<B787_300> egg|z|egg: what is the Russian one?
<galois> title: Онлайн-служба эфемерид · ИПА РАН
<galois> title: Online Ephemeris Service · IAA RAS
<egg|z|egg> french one: https://ssp.imcce.fr/ephemeris
<galois> title: Éphémérides - Formulaires | IMCCE
* egg|z|egg bites galois
<B787_300> Yeah you have linked the French one before
<egg|z|egg> yeah but this new interface is from the third of may
<egg|z|egg> it used to be very shitty
<egg|z|egg> I think I still prefer the Russian one, it makes you explicitly choose satellite ephemerides
<egg|z|egg> whereas IMCCE only gives you the choice of planetary ephemeris (two DEs, an INPOP, and whatever SLP is)
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<SnoopJeDi> mofh, ...I think I may have a new favorite genre? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7R9xjcw8Hc
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] fictionles commented on issue #2184: Delete entire flight plan - https://git.io/fj0Ep
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] 2314491271 starred Principia - https://git.io/fj0zA
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] 2314491271 starred Principia - https://git.io/fj0zA
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #2184: Delete entire flight plan - https://git.io/fj0av
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2184: Delete entire flight plan - https://git.io/fj0Ve
<egg|z|egg> !u ♈︎
<galois> ♈: U+2648 ARIES
<galois> ︎: U+fe0e VARIATION SELECTOR-15
<egg|z|egg> WHY ARE YOU IGNORING MY VS-15 GITHUB gaaaaaaaaah
<egg|z|egg> mofh: UmbralRaptor: B787_300: are you perhaps able to haz pdf https://search.informit.com.au/documentSummary;dn=326157233720119;res=IELENG
<galois> title: AIAC18: 18th Australian International Aerospace Congress (2019): HUMS - 11th Defence Science and Technology (DST) International Conference on Health and Usage Monitoring (HUMS 2019): ISSFD - 27th International Symposium on Space Flight Dynamics (ISSFD) - Accurate osculating/mean orbital elements conversions for spaceborne formation flying (Engineering Collection) - Informit
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2186: Next release is Fermat - https://git.io/fj0wi
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3632/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2186: Next release is Fermat - https://git.io/fj0wi
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3632/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/fj0rG
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy 96d0939 - Next release is Fermat.
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy ee42d9e - Merge pull request #2186 from pleroy/Fermat Next release is Fermat
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2186: Next release is Fermat - https://git.io/fj0wi
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy created tag 2019060310-Fatou - https://git.io/fpDwq
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy tagged ee42d9e as 2019060310-Fatou https://git.io/fj0r0
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2185: Make Warp to Maneuver Node lead time tunable - https://git.io/fj0qg
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #2184: Delete entire flight plan - https://git.io/fj0oP
<egg|z|egg> mofh: got a discord DM by a chinese user with the discord name Eastwind
<egg|z|egg> mofh: are my users ballistic missiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_(missile)
<galois> title: Dongfeng (missile) - Wikipedia
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Dongfeng (missile) | "The Dongfeng (simplified Chinese: 东风; traditional Chinese: 東風; literally: 'East Wind') series, typically abbreviated as "DF missiles", are a family of short, medium, intermediate-range and intercontinental ballistic missiles operated by the Chinese People's Liberation Army Rocket Force (formerly the..."
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<UmbralRaptor> Is this how the missile knows where it is?
<egg|z|egg> !u -f
<galois> -: U+002d HYPHEN-MINUS
<galois> f: U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F
<egg|z|egg> UmbralRaptor: where it isn't, too
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<egg> !u e-d
<galois> e: U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E
<galois> : U+feff ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE
<galois> -: U+002d HYPHEN-MINUS
<galois> d: U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D
<egg> ....
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<galois> title: Jason Spyromilio; Ιάσων Σπυρομίλιος on Twitter: "Rashid Sunyaev presenting @eROSITA_SRG at the #giacconisymposium @theNASciences Riccardo would’ve loved it.… "
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2187: Use the new flight plan API in the C# code - https://git.io/fj0P0
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3633/
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2187: Use the new flight plan API in the C# code - https://git.io/fj0P0
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<UmbralRaptop> egg: afraid that GMU doesn't have institutional access
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3633/
<egg|cell|egg> Ow
<egg|cell|egg> Mofh?
<UmbralRaptop> Their institutional login is oddly provincial. (I swear, every one is Australian)
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<galois> title: Eric Mamajek on Twitter: "Astro PhD student opportunity: IPAC Visiting Graduate Fellowshiphttps://t.co/6DnfXElM1C"six-month positions to graduate students who want to conduct PhD-level astronomical research in close association with @caltechipac scientists." #exoplanets #NASA #astronomy #AAS #STEM"
<SnoopJeDi> IPAC?
<SnoopJeDi> !acr -add:IPAC International Particle Accelerator Conference
<galois> Definition added!
<SnoopJeDi> !acr -add:NAPAC North American Particle Accelerator Conference
<galois> Definition added!
<SnoopJeDi> IUPAC?
<SnoopJeDi> !acr -add:IUPAC International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry
<galois> Definition added!
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<egg> SnoopJeDi: are you able to haz pdf on that australian paper?
<galois> title: AIAC18: 18th Australian International Aerospace Congress (2019): HUMS - 11th Defence Science and Technology (DST) International Conference on Health and Usage Monitoring (HUMS 2019): ISSFD - 27th International Symposium on Space Flight Dynamics (ISSFD) - Accurate osculating/mean orbital elements conversions for spaceborne formation flying (Engineering Collection) - Informit
<SnoopJeDi> hmm it doesn't automagically retrieve it but let me check
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<SnoopJeDi> egg, nope, I'd recommend emailing G. Gaias directly and asking her for a copy. I do have access to some papers that look related, but I assume you know that what you need is only in that paper
<egg> I have no idea what I need
<SnoopJeDi> egg, hmm, what drew you to that paper?
<SnoopJeDi> (I didn't check scrollback)
<egg> things wot cite the GSOC/DLR paper mentioned further up
<egg> that develops a mean element theory for GSOC while complaining that the existing modern ones are hidden in JPL internal documents
<egg> Precise mean orbital elements determination for LEO monitoring and maintenance
<egg> tbh that one probably has anything I actually need
<SnoopJeDi> sounds like the AIAC18 paper is a solid bet, then
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<SnoopJeDi> gabriella.gaias@polimi.it looks like a good email at which to reach her
<SnoopJeDi> Although C. Colombo is the PI for the lab and also active on Twitter https://twitter.com/camilla_colombo
<galois> title: Camilla Colombo (@camilla_colombo) | Twitter
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<egg|cell|egg> Snoopjedi: unlikely to be worth the hassle, Precise mean orbital elements determination for LEO monitoring and maintenance probably is more relevant to what I want to poke at
<egg|cell|egg> And that one is easy to get
<SnoopJeDi> Fair enough
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<egg|cell|egg> (worst case 8 AUD is cheap if I'm reading that price rise right)
<SnoopJeDi> yea that's decently fair, although at that point an email is worth hassle unless it's a fire that needs immediate putting out :P
<SnoopJeDi> and also presumably DLR people can point the way to whatever you do need if the paper is not quite it
<egg|cell|egg> You seem to think I know what I need
<SnoopJeDi> I usually make that assumption, but I think it's not unreasonable to ask to pick someone's brain, either.
<SnoopJeDi> but also it's not unreasonable to continue surveying the literature until you can form a question you're comfortable with
<SnoopJeDi> And I have full faith you know how to navigate that space to your own satisfaction, just wanted to toss out the reminder that human beings write papers and they're _usually_ nice, it's too easy to forget :)
<egg|cell|egg> My questions are generally weird, ill defined, and open at this point
<SnoopJeDi> Breakfast of champions in academia :D
<SnoopJeDi> but yea, I know that feel. I sometimes wonder if I'll ever have a well-formed idea.
<egg> KSP is good at inducing weird questions, usually when doing mission design you know what the planet is
<egg> or ferram4's problems, usually aerodynamicists don't have to deal with recomputing models in real time as bits of the plane fall off
<egg> also they deal with planes that look like planes
<SnoopJeDi> I remember ending up in some ascent profile white papers when trying to get my head around the Trajectories mod including aerodynamic effects
<SnoopJeDi> Not particularly deep though. You're right though, it's a good generator of lines of inquiry. Such is exploration?
<egg> eggsploration
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<SnoopJeDi> right you are
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<egg> UmbralRaptop: mofh: B787_300: I'm wondering what useful properties I can compute and give about a perturbed Keplerian orbit without modeling the perturbations
<UmbralRaptop> anger/sadness?
* egg googles "angry orbits"
<galois> title: Gemini IX Crew Found 'Angry Alligator' in Earth Orbit | NASA
<B787_300> No idea
<SnoopJeDi> what a title
<egg> B787_300: if the orbit is the tiniest bit inclined (and if it isn't perturbations will probably make sure it is), mean node-to-node times (nodal period) should be well behaved, and then you can talk about phasing and stationkeeping of the longitude of equatorial crossing
<egg> computing ω, ω', and the anomalistic period as mean periapsis-to-periapsis time otoh fails completely for low-eccentricity orbits (the 4-apsis orbits)
<egg> the sidereal period (mean time between crossings of a plane perpendicular to the equator) should be well behaved inconditionally, but isn't very useful
<egg> all the cycle wrt the sun / sun-synchronicity stuff is tied to the nodal precession so that might work too
<B787_300> UmbralRaptop: is nasa really killing Spitzer
<UmbralRaptop> Yes
<egg> aaaaaaaaa
<UmbralRaptop> I think there was some swapping around funding with NSF?
<B787_300> At least jwst made it out of tvac okay
<egg> tvac?
<UmbralRaptop> Thermal vacuum chamber/testing
<B787_300> Thermal vacuum
<egg> mofh: B787_300: UmbralRaptop: another way to approach the question: which quantities are you *directly* interested in when describing an orbit
<B787_300> Egg the 6 classical. Plus their movement terms.
<egg> by *directly* I mean e.g. probably not the eccentricity, because here it's likely the apsis altitudes that are of interest rather than the description of their ratio
<UmbralRaptop> hrm
<egg> and Ω is almost certainly of no direct interest
<egg> (because Ω' is nonzero, so interesting alignment of the ascending node would more likely be on the ground track, with a terrestrial longitude, or with a mean solar time for sun-synch orbits)