raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] YuanZ1949 starred Principia - https://git.io/fj8e0
<egg> UmbralRaptop: another approach to solar observation: https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/explorer_epe.htm
<galois> title: Explorer: EPE A, B, C, D (S 3)
<egg> eggscentric orbits!
* UmbralRaptop is reminded of Artemis and RBSP
<egg> UmbralRaptop: why does TRACE have a more detailed wikipedia article in french https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRACE
<galois> title: TRACE — Wikipédia
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] TRACE | "TRACE (Transition Region And Coronal Explorer) est un télescope spatial développé par le Centre de vol spatial Goddard, établissement de la NASA, avec pour objectif de réaliser des photos de la couronne et de Région de transition du Soleil avec une résolution angulaire et temporelle élevée. Le télescope..."
* UmbralRaptop doesn't know
<galois> title: Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph — Wikipédia
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph | "L'Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph ou IRIS est un télescope spatial de l'agence spatiale américaine de la NASA qui doit observer les émissions du Soleil en ultraviolet proche et lointain. Le satellite a été placé en orbite le 28 juin 2013 par un lanceur Pegasus pour une mission de deux ans. Ce petit..."
<egg> !acr -add:IRIS Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph
<galois> Definition added!
* egg meows at UmbralRaptop
<UmbralRaptop> !acr -add:RBSP Radiation Belt Storm Probes
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:ACE Advanced Composition Explorer
<galois> Definition added!
<galois> title: Satellite Contracts · SirMortimer/Kerbalism Wiki · GitHub
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<UmbralRaptop> TIL that I've been mispronouncing hinode
<UmbralRaptop> egg: I think so. I feel like we should have a 'planetary science' part, though?
<UmbralRaptop> That is, missions to a particular body.
<egg|cell|egg> Yeah but there stock+scansat kind of works as a first approximation
<egg|cell|egg> The goal here is to avoid missions that are just "put thing in given orbit"
<egg|cell|egg> But "perform experiments low above the great red spot" is a thing in stock already afaict
<UmbralRaptop> hrm
<UmbralRaptop> Huh, I have no idea if WISE, IRAS, etc are in crepescular orbits
* UmbralRaptop blames egg for my addition to the wiki
<UmbralRaptop> The most important thing in infrared astronomy is that you make coldness your god
<SnoopJeDi> WHAT ⌬ IS A SYMBOL?!
<SnoopJeDi> A unicode symbol
<SnoopJeDi> I am delighted
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<egg|cell|egg> UmbralRaptor: yeah the survey satellites are crepuscular
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<egg|cell|egg> UmbralRaptor: that way you get stable temperatures, and away from earth is never into the sun
<egg|cell|egg> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://wise.ssl.berkeley.edu/documents/WISESPIE_SanDiego05.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiw9OeEtaLiAhWGEVAKHZ0aBcUQFjAPegQIBBAF&usg=AOvVaw0lHmei2CM6zHa13ggwOA0z&cshid=1558091020005
<egg|cell|egg> Um
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<egg|work|egg> where is the raptor
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* egg|work|egg meows at UmbralRaptop
* UmbralRaptop pets egg
<egg|work|egg> UmbralRaptop: there were plans for refillable coolant on Spitzer?!
<UmbralRaptop> egg|work|egg: back when it was Shuttle InfraRed Telescope Facility
<UmbralRaptop> I mean, it would have been brought up/down by the shuttle…
<UmbralRaptop> Possibly also refillable when it was to be shuttle deployed but freeflying
<UmbralRaptop> Anyway, there's a NASA book (making the invisible visible) that has lots of details
<egg|work|egg> nice
<egg|work|egg> 500km; 97.3° inclination; sun synchronous 6am/6pm
<egg|work|egg> UmbralRaptop: I wonder how to model the constraints of a survey in KSP
<egg|work|egg> the annoying thing is that orientation isn't a thing so you can't just eventually point at everything
<egg|work|egg> the set of places where you can't point should eventually cover the entire sky? but that will happen pretty quickly no matter what you do
<UmbralRaptop> I think so.
<egg|work|egg> then again maybe if you combine that with e.g. the IR constraints it becomes interesting
<UmbralRaptop> But, surveys are often limited in area (Kepler, WFIRST, even TESS to some degree)
<UmbralRaptop> Something something cadence something duration
<egg|work|egg> UmbralRaptop: cadence duration?
* egg|work|egg not actually familiar with observatories
<egg|work|egg> UmbralRaptop: also are you on the ro discord?
<UmbralRaptop> I am not
<UmbralRaptop> Cadence is a big deal for eggsoplanet and astroseismology surveys
<egg|work|egg> what is it
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<UmbralRaptor> cadence as in how frequently you observe the same things, duration as in multiple obs over how long
<egg|work|egg> ah
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<UmbralRaptor> Of course, lots of surveys have been single epoch, so…
<egg|work|egg> UmbralRaptor: IRAS did all-sky surveys though, WISE too
<UmbralRaptor> yeah
<egg|work|egg> PAndAS?
<egg|work|egg> !acr -add:PAndAS Pan-Andromeda Archaeological Survey
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|work|egg> PANDA?
<galois> PANDA: Position And Navigation Data Analyst
<egg|work|egg> 🐼🔭🐼🛰
<UmbralRaptor> 🐼💻
<UmbralRaptor> or, 🐼🐍
<egg|work|egg> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn ferram4
* galois gives ferram4 a parabolic spork with a trapezoid attachment
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn ferram4
* galois gives ferram4 a oxygen line with a saber attachment
<mofh> !wpn egg|work|egg
* galois gives egg|work|egg a yellow life
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<galois> title: PeiCheck on Twitter: "I.M. dead"
<egg> grumpy cat too
<SnoopJeDi> yike
<SnoopJeDi> Tard seemed like a good kat, she'll be missed.
<egg> UmbralRaptop: btw i beefed up the solar observation section a bit, does it still make sense https://github.com/SirMortimer/Kerbalism/wiki/Satellite-Contracts#solar-observation
<galois> title: Satellite Contracts · SirMortimer/Kerbalism Wiki · GitHub
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<egg> UmbralRaptop: today in ATM machine: "CME ejection"
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<UmbralRaptop> aaaaa
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<Raptop> egg: seems to make sense?
<galois> title: Waldorf Sixpence on Twitter: "tfw you have personally sunk three warships… "
<Raptop> *yandre
<galois> title: Waldorf Sixpence on Twitter: "tfw you have personally sunk three warships… "
<galois> title: Gabriel N. U. on Twitter: "I was not going to show you my full recon of the paravian dinosaur Anchiornis huxleyi until it appears in my in-prep book. However, I licensed it and it will be published soon in a magazine article (along with others recons), so here it is #paleoart #sciart #FossilFriday… https://t.co/heNb3qinOP"
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<egg|zzz|egg> Raptop: if you have some input on eggsoplanetology missions I think they would be useful at https://discord.gg/aSYcRu
<galois> title: KSP-RO
<Raptop> Your account must be at least 5 minutes old to send messages to this server
<egg|zzz|egg> Raptop: hm
<egg|zzz|egg> Raptop: hopefully the server didn't forget the first digit of the julian date
<Raptop> hah
<Raptop> hrm, I should change my avatar
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<egg> Raptop: galaxy!
* egg pets Raptop
* Raptop was sort of hoping for a birb (say, Utsuho Reiuji), but didn't have anything that would work well nearby
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<egg> !wpn Raptop
* galois gives Raptop a fluorine bayonette with a woomera attachment
<Raptop> uh
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<UmbralRaptor> Why is discord's night mode a mid gray instead of a proper black?
<B787_300> because they want to be different
<SnoopJeDi> mofh, why is this Genesis remix so good wtf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhcUBfb-4Qk
<egg|zzz|egg> IRAS?
<galois> IRAS: InfraRed Astronomical Satellite
<egg|zzz|egg> WISE?
<galois> WISE: Widefield Infrared Survey Explorer
<egg|zzz|egg> IRIS?
<galois> IRIS: Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: also InfraRed Imaging Surveyor
<egg|zzz|egg> note: IRIS is in a crepuscular orbit
<UmbralRaptor> aaaaah
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph | InfraRed Imaging Surveyor
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -remove:Interface
<galois> Invalid command. Valid forms: !acr -add:LMAO Lagrange Made Awesome Orbits, !acr -redef:ROFL Rare Occultations for Life, !acr -del:IEEE
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -del:Interface
<galois> Definition deleted!
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -redef:IRIS Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph | InfraRed Imaging Surveyor
<galois> Definition added!
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: is WFIRST supposed to do an all-sky survey as well?
<UmbralRaptor> egg|zzz|egg: no, only something like 10-20%
<egg|zzz|egg> huh
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: otoh TESS is an all-sky survey, rigth
<egg|zzz|egg> TESS?
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:TESS Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite
<galois> Definition added!
<UmbralRaptor> oops, apparently smoler than I thought. 2000 deg²
<egg|zzz|egg> and TESS is *not* on a heliosynch orbit (high eggscentric instead), so it's not a fatality for most-sky surveys to be heliosynch
<galois> title: Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite - Wikipedia
<UmbralRaptor> TESS isn't *quite* all sky, but most of that is not bothering with the eggliptic
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite#/media/File:TESS science sector suddivision.jpg | "The Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) is a space telescope for NASA's Explorers program, designed to search for exoplanets using the transit method in an area 400 times larger than that covered by the Kepler mission. It was launched on April 18, 2018 atop a Falcon 9 rocket. During its 2-year..."
<UmbralRaptor> IIRC, TESS's orbit has some advantage in terms of imaging a seggtor for a month at a time.
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah, high eggscentricity means long eggsposures
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor#1855 why can't JWST observe opposite the sun? something something cooling reasons?
<UmbralRaptor> Yeah. Not sure about exactly how pointing is handled, but yes.
<whitequark> eggcentric orbit
<UmbralRaptor> barycentric vs eggcentric
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: oh right i keep saying eggscentring but it's spelled ecc in english, not exc
<egg|zzz|egg> in french it's excentrique
<egg|zzz|egg> ex- and centre, makes sense
<UmbralRaptor> heh
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: so if not pointing zenithally, an IR telescope during its cool phase would eggpsend more coolant?
<egg|zzz|egg> MIPS?
<galois> MIPS: Multiband Imaging Photometer for Spitzer
<UmbralRaptor> typical sunshield layout makes it preferable to point ~perpendicular to the sun, O think?
<UmbralRaptor> *I
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: I mean for LEO sats, not L2 sats
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: hm, WIRE was another infrared all-sky survey from sun-synch orbit
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: how do all these IR all-sky-surveys differ from each other
<UmbralRaptor> Briefly
<egg|zzz|egg> > Briefly
<egg|zzz|egg> ah right
<egg|zzz|egg> but was planned to be
<UmbralRaptor> IRAS was first, COBE was primarily CMB
<egg|zzz|egg> after all we're looking at mission design here, success is irrelevant,
<egg|zzz|egg> and WISE and Akari?
<UmbralRaptor> WISE is the replacement to WIRE
<UmbralRaptor> I don't know enough about JAXA to comment on あかり.
<UmbralRaptor> None of them do shorter wavelengths because *waves vaguely at 2MASS*
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: right but how is WI[SR]E wrt IRAS
<egg|zzz|egg> COBE is a different animal in terms of wavelength
<UmbralRaptor> I think better detector tech in part?
<egg|zzz|egg> ah
<UmbralRaptor> Ah, also different wavelengths
<egg|zzz|egg> huh, COBE is also in a heliosynch orbit?!
<UmbralRaptor> Yeah
<egg|zzz|egg> oh it also needs to be cooled
<egg|zzz|egg> so it's basically the same
<UmbralRaptor> WISE W1 and W2 are bluer than IRAS, W3 and W4 sort of line up
<egg|zzz|egg> theres actually zero difference between IR & microwave.
<UmbralRaptor> ALMA is basically very far IR >_>
<UmbralRaptor> I know that WISE hit diffraction limits, dunno about IRAS
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Infrared Space Observatory#Optical telescope | "The Infrared Space Observatory (ISO) was a space telescope for infrared light designed and operated by the European Space Agency (ESA), in cooperation with ISAS (part of JAXA as of 2003) and NASA. The ISO was designed to study infrared light at wavelengths of 2.5 to 240 micrometres and operated from..."
<galois> title: Infrared Space Observatory - Wikipedia
<egg|zzz|egg> ISO always pointed between 60 and 120 degrees away from the Sun and it never pointed closer than 77 degrees to Earth, 24 degrees to the Moon or closer than 7 degrees to Jupiter.
<egg|zzz|egg> > between 60 and 120 degrees away from the Sun
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: so it seems there's a consistent pattern that "directly away from the sun is bad"? see also JWST
<UmbralRaptor> oh, wow. IRAS had abysmal resolution
<galois> title: IRAS - Wikipedia
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] IRAS#/media/File:IRAS all-sky infrared survey.jpg | "The Infrared Astronomical Satellite (IRAS) was the first-ever space telescope to perform a survey of the entire night sky at infrared wavelengths.Launched on 25 January 1983, its mission lasted ten months. The telescope was a joint project of the United States (NASA), the Netherlands (NIVR), and the..."
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: also what's the difference between, e.g., IRAS, ISO, Herschel, that ceased observations when they ran out of coolant, and Spitzer or WISE that went Spitzer Warm or NEOWISE
<UmbralRaptor> egg|zzz|egg: I'd say wavelengths, but I'd eggspect ISO to be in that range
<egg|zzz|egg> Infrared Camera (ISOCAM) – A high-resolution camera covering 2.5 to 17 micrometre wavelength
<UmbralRaptor> Spitzer and WISE use ~3.4 μm and ~4.5 μm only these days
<egg|zzz|egg> the rest of the ISO instruments is a photopolarimeter and spectrometers
<egg|zzz|egg> s/ec/egg/
<galois> egg|zzz|egg meant to say: the rest of the ISO instruments is a photopolarimeter and speggtrometers
<UmbralRaptor> hrm. 2.5-5 μm channel with a bunch of filters
<UmbralRaptor> (also, 32x32 array? ow)
<UmbralRaptor> I don't know. Is ESA against the sort of greatly eggstended missions that happen at NASA?
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: *points at XMM*
<UmbralRaptor> hrm
<egg|zzz|egg> Planned: 10 years[1] Elapsed: 19 years, 5 months, 6 days
* UmbralRaptor wonders what the fuel situation was like
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: also is XMM a slightly more eggscentric CXO in a trenchcoat
<UmbralRaptor> wolter trenchcoat
<egg|zzz|egg> phased [1; -1; 2] instead of [0;+23; 61] too
<egg|zzz|egg> INTEGRAL is [0; +1; 3]
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: does ESA like supersynchronous high eggscentric orbits for some reason
<egg|zzz|egg> INTEGRAL?
<galois> INTEGRAL: INTErnational Gamma-Ray Astrophysics Laboratory
<egg|zzz|egg> wait did INTEGRAL change phasing since Capderou published his book
<egg|zzz|egg> the book gives [0; +1; 3], but iximeow gives [0; +3; 8] with the latest NORAD daata
<iximeow> [0; +3; 8]
<iximeow> ^ expected expression
<UmbralRaptor> (Iximeow 2019)
<egg|zzz|egg> iximeow: phasing triplet
<egg|zzz|egg> iximeow: number of satellite revolutions / number of earth revolutions = 0+3/8
<iximeow> ooh
<egg|zzz|egg> e.g. a synchronous orbit is denoted [1; 0; 1]