<Iskierka>
found a semi-consistent argument that solar stats would be fuzzy due to all the DIY work, but even in types where that isn't possible it's not super-safe
<Iskierka>
at least I *hope* there aren't enough people doing solar thermal in their back yard that this council had to account for it
<UmbralRaptor>
Wind is almost *coal* scale? @_@
* UmbralRaptor
has heard of solar thermal setting birds on fire.
<Iskierka>
on the next graph it is 1.5 more orders of magnitude materials and construction as versus coal and they're considering whole lifetime
<Iskierka>
it does seem excessive but other sources do find wind dangerous, even if not quite so comparable with coal
<Iskierka>
(although it's possible here "whole lifetime" doesn't include climate change)
<Iskierka>
table 1 is a nice one
<Iskierka>
"For each component of risk, the highest value from the group of scientific sources was used This procedure, not followed for any other energy system, was chosen as a way of removing suspicion of pro-nuclear bias which often clouds energy debate"
<UmbralRaptor>
Hrm. Volume 21.
<Iskierka>
literally worst reasonably possible value of nuclear danger, too
<UmbralRaptor>
Volume 58 is from March 2017, so I'm guessing it's from 1980?
<Iskierka>
... sssh (still applies given that the assumptions appear to hold in not-USSR, cite three mile island)
<UmbralRaptor>
Point.
<Iskierka>
but yes, I'll look for further sources still
<Iskierka>
(It's still at least useful for not-nuclear danger, anyway, so can use comparitive numbers there to show solar isn't safe, then more modern numbers for nuclear)
<Iskierka>
... Huh. Interesting number to run across while going around: apparently DoE reckons $2bn per GWh of pumped hydro. from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_County_Pumped_Storage_Station I was figuring it at $1.6bn(1980) per 40 GWh
<Iskierka>
guess that cost estimate should be turned waaaaay up
<UmbralRaptor>
!wa 80/1.6
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: 80/1.6 = 50
<UmbralRaptor>
!wa USD inflation 1980 to 2017
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: United States | inflation rate | 1980 to 2017: 214.3% (January 1980 to December 2017)
<Iskierka>
80?
<UmbralRaptor>
2/(1.6/40) = 2*40/1.6 = 80/1.6
<Iskierka>
... I guess
<UmbralRaptor>
Huh, so overall inflation has only been 2x, so the inflation-adjusted cost of hydro went up 25x?
<Iskierka>
either that or this bath county station was REALLY fuckin cheap
<UmbralRaptor>
;c 30/3.143
<kmath_>
UmbralRaptor: 9.545020680878142
<Iskierka>
(may help that it has 400m of head pressure whereas 100m may be more typical)
<UmbralRaptor>
er, I apparently can't type or math.
<UmbralRaptor>
Huh, maybe.
<UmbralRaptor>
;c 50/3.143
<kmath_>
UmbralRaptor: 15.908367801463571
<Iskierka>
doesn't fully explain it but would be helpful that the particular terrain was favourable
icefire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<UmbralRaptor>
"Conservatives like Bret Stephens have correctly diagnosed that liberals aren’t taking climate change seriously. The proof of that is not Al Gore’s large house, though—it’s that their newspapers keep hiring people like Bret Stephens and their businesses keep giving money to his political allies."