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<Pinkbeast>
Oh, that's where you went
<Pinkbeast>
Christ, whoever wrote this Class 47 scenario is a sadist. "Go via XYZ", and every time, 2 metres after XYZ there's a set of points that sends you in the wrong direction.
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<Iskierka>
I am confused that I do seem to get different performace from different locos, even though they do have the same sim model as far as I can tell
<Iskierka>
but I do note that like MSFS the simulation works just by power-vs-speed csv files and such, not running an actual simulation
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<Iskierka>
actually no there's a different simulation for skirts vs no skirts. that might be the difference
<Glaug-Eldare>
how about sundresses
<Glaug-Eldare>
oh my god I want to see aliens in sundresses
<Glaug-Eldare>
cute aliens with eye stalks and everything
<Pinkbeast>
Iskierka: Also I think a scenario can override vehicle properties
<Iskierka>
that seems silly but I'm running the same carriages in quick drive
<Iskierka>
... while there are two different engine simulations I'm not sure there are differences between them, actually. So why can Gresley only hit 132 and struggle there while Bittern is happy to hold 142
<Pinkbeast>
Both in quick drive?
<Iskierka>
yep. don't have any scenarios as apparently those only come with another £17 route
<Pinkbeast>
At a wild guess, some variation in how you got there has resulted in a different firebox temperature - one thing the game doesn't make visible. (I've asked the author of this new tool if it can report it)
<Iskierka>
You'd think the same firebox level would equalise quite quickly with that much airflow
<Pinkbeast>
On the other hand if you are whacking along at those speeds I'd - yes, that
<Pinkbeast>
It can't be dampers because the new tool exposes damper settings
<Pinkbeast>
IIRC the real Gresley has two live steam injectors because of the operational demands of railtours; I wonder if your train pack knows that and implements it somewhere hidden
<Iskierka>
As opposed to a live an an exhaust?
<Pinkbeast>
... if you were even running the injectors at the time. Yes.
<Iskierka>
I've not noticed another engine simulation but if there's a difference like that it *could* be doing it somewhere?
<Pinkbeast>
Except presumably in a push for absolute maximum speed you'd have the injectors off so how could it make a difference?
<Iskierka>
In diff comparing the main engine models I've found a detail that there's some slight variances in sanders and cylinder leaks between at least two models. As they're numbers in a matrix I don't know what they mean
<Iskierka>
I was going through water so fast I had exhaust (but only exhaust) on in both
<Pinkbeast>
Hmm. If I were you I'd try a final push with them both off and see if that makes a difference
<Pinkbeast>
Also Bittern runs railtours too so for all I know it has two live injectors too
<Pinkbeast>
(Also, from the latter days of steam there are sophisticated injectors that use exhaust steam if available, otherwise live - but I dunno who's got them and if TS models them)
<Pinkbeast>
I think the Brittannias _might_ have them
<Glaug-Eldare>
wait what
<Pinkbeast>
*Britannias
<Pinkbeast>
Glaug-Eldare: Which bit?
<Glaug-Eldare>
oh, trains?
<Pinkbeast>
Yes, trains
<Glaug-Eldare>
you mentioned exhaust steam and I thought of motorship economizers
<Pinkbeast>
Glaug-Eldare: Ah. No. An injector gets water into the boiler on a locomotive (or a steamship, I imagine) by _magic_, and some of them work on exhaust steam which is economical and extra magic
<Glaug-Eldare>
magic is pretty cool
<Glaug-Eldare>
I never did get a magician's endorsement
<Iskierka>
I can't find any other indications of a different engine simulation, so bittern and gresley *should* be identical, bar some small number changes in the matrixes for sanders, cylinder leaks, and cylinder cocks
<Iskierka>
which I suppose it's not impossible might be having an effect
<Pinkbeast>
At these borderline-impossible speeds a small leakiness could have a big effect
<Pinkbeast>
Also, different tenders, maybe?
<Pinkbeast>
If one has a corridor tender that's a significantly lower coal mass
<Iskierka>
they do have different tenders but if they've not differentiated the loco why would they differentiate the tender?
<Iskierka>
I don't think one was corridor and the other not but I'll check
<Iskierka>
the leak numbers aren't different between bittern and gresley and looking closer I think it's a position for a particle effect
<Pinkbeast>
Corridor> or different types in some other way
<Iskierka>
Definitely both full-height streamlined
<Iskierka>
and both labelled as corridor
<Iskierka>
so by elimination presumably is the way it's being driven, but I was aiming to drive the same way and should've had the same fire heat
<Pinkbeast>
Could try driving _exactly_ the same way - full regulator, 20% cutoff, take off brake at same time, do you top out at same speed?
<Iskierka>
that would probably be the thing to do
<Iskierka>
confusing thing: tractive effort vs cutoff graph drops to 0 below 20%. Possibly why I was observing boost to not going below 20%?
<Iskierka>
very strange feature to have
<Iskierka>
doing that test now, and I am somewhat surprised it sets off reliably with 20% cutoff
<Pinkbeast>
This is a janky model, 20% cutoff is _loads_
<Iskierka>
that would seem jank - especially so as it's a very immediate cutoff but I set the bittern speed on 18%
<Pinkbeast>
I'm not sure that csv does what one naively might think it does, to be fair
<Pinkbeast>
Also that may be 20% of 75%, ie 15% cutoff. But I've got down to 5% cutoff sometimes and gained speed by doing it.
<Iskierka>
aaand I really don't understand that result as gresley lost steam and peaked at 90 there
<Pinkbeast>
No, mine also goes down to 20% but I guess it's linear from 20% to 0%
<Pinkbeast>
Since it goes up to 100% I guess this is implicitly "of the maximum available cutoff"
<Pinkbeast>
I couldn't get the Princess Coronation above 97.5 mph which was a bit disappointing; heavy train tho'
<Iskierka>
.. bittern might actually have two live injectors. draining from tender at a standstill. Didn't note for gresley
<Pinkbeast>
Draining from tender will always happen, the question is if it refills the boiler. :-)
<Iskierka>
it appeared to
<Pinkbeast>
Were you running the blower? That'll give some exhaust steam.
<Iskierka>
ah, yeah, sim defaults to 10% blower
<Pinkbeast>
I dunno if TS really models having some exhaust steam but not enough to inject the full water flow :-/
<Iskierka>
I'm not entirely convinced it simulates anything
<Pinkbeast>
_Tornado_ has a nice bright electric light to illuminate the injectors below the footplate which must be a boon
<Iskierka>
getting injection with blower off. it either doesn't care about injector or is simulating a live injector
<Iskierka>
Okay, must be a difference in the driving. Getting to the same kind of speed before they run out of steam left to their own devices
<Iskierka>
Mallard gets injection too though so it doesn't care about exhaust. Silly "sim"
<Iskierka>
Might not be taking boiler pressure though
<Pinkbeast>
Silly> or it may be clever combined injectors, I guess, I really have no idea how widely they were/are deployed
<Iskierka>
Noooo comparing with the drain on the live I'mma say it's just assuming exhaust is available regardless
<Iskierka>
137 with mallard coming out of york so I can go straight into speed ... close enough to 142 into york?
<Iskierka>
although I was losing steam and then it suddenly stopped. yay for silly sim
<Iskierka>
apparently speeding through the destination at 125 is good enough for the quick drive scenario ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<UmbralRaptor>
Wait, does that mean (dis)embarking at 125 mph?
<Iskierka>
apparently the scenario thinks that happened?
<Iskierka>
people must've really been ready to jump though because we didn't stop until at least a mile and a half later. probably two.