13:06 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Having an issue with my save which stopped responding at some point. Subbed in bad save folder with ok backup save, and game fails at roughly same point

13:06 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Some people are suggesting that maybe Principia is overloaded?

13:07 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Let's say I have 150 items in orbit (sats, relays, debris, all combined), would that be considered large? Too large and problematic? Just fine??

13:08 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — Principia tracks every vessel and keeps the history, this should as far as I know only slow down scene change times

13:09 <discord-> e​gg. — large saves (not in terms of number of vessels, but in terms of physical save file size) may lead to long load times

13:09 <discord-> e​gg. — further, being far from 1950 may lead to long load times

13:09 <discord-> s​iimav. — Has anyone even gotten to 600MB of Principia plugin adapter data?

13:09 <discord-> e​gg. — yeah that is not unusual

13:10 <discord-> e​gg. — a bit on the heavy side, but I can definitely see it happening

13:11 <discord-> e​gg. — @siimav see https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/2400 and ctrl+F MB for an overview of the orders of magnitude involved

13:12 <discord-> s​iimav. — I'm not seeing larger than 300MB there

13:13 <discord-> e​gg. — sure, but have double the vessels and you will have double the data

13:13 <discord-> e​gg. — or double the age of the vessels

13:13 <discord-> s​iimav. — We all know that the KSP confignode parser isn't the most efficient code out there so what if it just throws it's hands up after some size?

13:14 <discord-> e​gg. — oh I do not think that is happening anywhere near 600 MB

13:14 <discord-> e​gg. — I have worked with saves in the gigabytes in the past when trying out some save compaction techniques in the past

13:15 <discord-> e​gg. — it took a quarter of an hour to load the save, but it loaded fine

13:17 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — So I supose then, that as a general rule of thumb, I should be deleting every piece of debris as I go along?

13:17 <discord-> e​gg. — that would help with save file size (and thus scene load times, since the KSP confignode parser is stupidly slow)

13:18 <discord-> D​amien. — > So I supose then, that as a general rule of thumb, I should be deleting every piece of debris as I go along?

13:18 <discord-> D​amien. — set max debris to a small number

13:18 <discord-> D​amien. — also disable potatoroids if you don't use them as they're considered vessels

13:18 <discord-> e​gg. — @Calvin_Maclure you are using the latest version of Principia, right?

13:19 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — I'm using *checks GameData folder*...

13:19 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Either gateaux or gallois

13:19 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Think Gallois

13:19 <discord-> e​gg. — you won’t see that easily in your GameData folder, you can see it in the UI

13:19 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — 99% sure

13:19 <discord-> D​amien. — schrodingers principia version

13:19 <discord-> e​gg. — @Calvin_Maclure you are more than a month late!

13:20 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — ... dayum!

13:20 <discord-> e​gg. — and you are missing an update that deals with a bug that could lead to large save files

13:20 <discord-> e​gg. — https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Change-Log#gateaux

13:20 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — hmm..

13:20 <discord-> e​gg. — 🥚 🌩️

13:21 <discord-> D​amien. — https://tenor.com/view/eggs-omelet-gif-6138068

13:21 <discord-> e​gg. — (mind you, 2400 will still bite you if you have lots of old debris, but if you don’t stay up to date you can also be talking about bugs that no longer eggsist)

13:22 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Where... do I download Gauss? I always get a bit confused with Git...

13:22 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Releases...

13:22 <discord-> D​amien. — links are in the readme

13:23 <discord-> e​gg. — if you go to the list of tags you are going to download the source code, be confused, and waste my time

13:23 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > _palms face_

13:23 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @egg please don't laugh at me...

13:23 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — lol

13:23 <discord-> e​gg. — read the readme https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia#principia

13:23 <discord-> e​gg. — it tells you to read it

13:23 <discord-> e​gg. — therefore you should read it

13:25 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Yeah I remember this about Principia now...

13:25 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — I knew this, forgot...

13:26 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Could Principia be behind the save issues I've had??

13:27 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > (mind you, 2400 will still bite you if you have lots of old debris, but if you don’t stay up to date you can also be talking about bugs that no longer eggsist)

13:27 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @egg I'll update and see if this fixes things

13:32 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Appreciate the help

13:55 <discord-> S​tandecco. — @egg do you know _why_ KSP's config parser is so slow? And is there ever hope to fix it?

13:55 <discord-> e​gg. — I do not know, I do not want to know, and I have no hope

14:00 <discord-> S​tandecco. — would've been a worthy 2400 successor

14:01 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — My guess is that Egg would want to do something *fun* after 2400

14:01 <discord-> S​tandecco. — nah, who needs that?

14:01 <discord-> D​amien. — > do something fun

14:01 <discord-> D​amien. — the guy that finds modding ksp more fun than actually playing it?

14:02 <discord-> D​amien. — clearly egg wants to do the most fun thing in ksp

14:02 <discord-> D​amien. — *answering badly thought out bug reports and demanding forum posts*

14:03 <discord-> l​pg. — egg doesn't mod ksp. egg makes principia, for which ksp _is_ a mod

14:03 <discord-> D​amien. — that and spoonfeeding people who refuse to read

14:03 <discord-> D​amien. — > egg doesn't mod ksp. egg makes principia, for which ksp is a mod

14:03 <discord-> D​amien. — true

14:12 <discord-> s​martdummies. — Egg completed KSP with Principia. It is an integral part of KSP.

14:13 <discord-> S​tandecco. — > integral

14:13 <discord-> S​tandecco. — checks out

17:12 <discord-> e​xperimentalshells. — You mean that KSP is an integral part of Principia?

17:18 <umbralraptop> not exactly, in that Principia handels the integrals itself

18:53 <discord-> B​utcher. — Ksp is just a gui for Principia.

18:59 <egg> developped to the finest gamedev standards

19:01 <umbralraptop> speaking of gamedev https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.02942

20:16 <discord-> B​utcher. — Hey gamedev standards are second to some.

22:55 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Is... there a specific setting with Principia regarding max persisting debris?

22:56 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — The issue with my ''corrupt'' save (after a lot of troubleshooting) seems to be too many things in orbit. Is this possible?? (updating to latest Principia changed nothing to fix the ''broken'' save)

22:57 <discord-> l​pg. — as few as possible

22:58 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — It does affect frames and performance some. Did notice that.

22:58 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — But could it/would it cause the game to crash to desktop? That's what I experienced...

23:09 <discord-> D​amien. — @Calvin_Maclure max debris is a ksp setting. Principia can cause crashes but usually only in the case of a serious error. It's more than likely something else.

23:10 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Hmm... interesting.

23:10 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — So, other than frames and performance, having... 500 objects in orbit should not be causing issues?

23:11 <discord-> l​pg. — it's going to result in the gigantic save file I think you've said you have

23:12 <discord-> e​gg. — if you are getting Principia crashes (as opposed to poor performance) you should report them according to the instructions in the FAQ

23:12 <discord-> e​gg. — do you have files that have the word FATAL in their name in glog\Principia?

23:12 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > if you are getting Principia crashes (as opposed to poor performance) you should report them according to the instructions in the FAQ

23:12 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @egg agreed. BUT, I don't know what is causing the crashes...

23:13 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — no not from what I could see

23:13 <discord-> e​gg. — OK, then it’s not our fault

23:14 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — I don't think it is, no. This is more to see if it COULD have been. Reason is that by removing all active flight items, there were no issues. So I wasn't sure if there was such an upper limit. Appears not to be.

23:14 <discord-> D​amien. — Try ksp.log and see what happens just before a crash

23:14 <discord-> D​amien. — Or the crash log it generates sometimes

23:15 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > Or the crash log it generates sometimes

23:15 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @Damien yeah... didn't really get any crash logs...

23:15 <discord-> e​gg. — did it actually crash, as in, did the application terminate on its own, or did it freeze and did windows tell you it went unresponsive

23:16 <discord-> D​amien. — Ksp.log is a bit laggy in notepad if it's big. Use something like notepad++

23:16 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — As I tried to launch something (so during the loading to the pad), imagine hitting Alt+F4. That's what it does.

23:17 <discord-> D​amien. — Nothing in the crash folder in the ksp folder (I think that's where they live)

23:17 <discord-> D​amien. — Nothing in the crash folder in the ksp folder? (I think that's where they live) (edited)

23:18 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — That's where there's the player.something file?

23:18 <discord-> D​amien. — I'm not at my pc but crash logs are in a designated folder

23:18 <discord-> D​amien. — Ksp.log is just a running commentary of what ksp is doing

23:19 <discord-> D​amien. — Between the two you should have info to diagnose a crash

23:19 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — that's this one, correct? (Forgive my bad memory and ignorance)

23:19 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768252050026004500/unknown.png

23:20 <discord-> e​gg. — most likely (looks like you have file extensions hidden), though remember you need to look at it immediately after a crash (it gets overwritten every time you start KSP)

23:21 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Right, ok. Noted. Thanks. Will try and generate that. I've got a "broken" save I can just fire up

23:25 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Loading, will be a few minutes before crash and all.

23:38 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Ok, as requrested, KSP.log from a just crashed game: https://drive.google.com/file/d/175ko8mEBh5Zv7ldc39bclAXhHeMdXonj/view?usp=sharing

23:39 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Thanks for looking into this and helping figure this thing out, appreciated.

23:41 <discord-> D​amien. — I'm on mobile so I've not a chance of opening a 28mb text file lol. Someone on a PC with a decent text editor will have to have a look

23:43 <discord-> D​amien. — Plus it's bedtime... o/

23:46 <discord-> e​gg. — there appears to be nothing useful there.

23:46 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Hmm... nothing useful as in nothing with ''fatal''?

23:47 <discord-> e​gg. — nothing useful as in it just cuts off abruptly with no mention of the actual crash.

23:48 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — huh... um... So this particular save fails to load even to KSC" I have another where it DOES load to KSC, but crashes if I try to launch something. Would that be better?

23:51 <discord-> e​gg. — To be honest I am not sure why we are wasting time on trying to understand why your thing crashes. Even if it failed to crash, with those file sizes your loading times would take minutes, making the thing rather annoying to play. The fact that this unplayable save hits some bug somewhere that we cannot do anything about (is it in KSP? in Unity? who knows) is not particularly interesting.

23:52 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Im just trying to pinpoint the issue. Game plays just fine, to honest. Just wasn't sure if Principia was to blame or not. Doesn't seem like it is. But I'm not a Principia expert

23:53 <discord-> e​gg. — I am, and I don’t care :-p

23:54 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — hence my asking for your help! 😉

23:55 <discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — if, IF it had been or was a Pr issue, you would have been in a much better position to tell then me.

23:56 <discord-> e​gg. — well I just followed the steps laid out in the FAQ, so you could have done that yourself

23:56 <discord-> e​gg. — it has no FATAL, it has no crash logs, it’s not my problem