01:53 <discord-> m​urdock999wot. — yay

01:53 <discord-> m​urdock999wot. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768653159391428618/unknown.png

02:44 <discord-> m​urdock999wot. — egg: thanks for the help. documentation is good. it took so long due to visual studio issues... anyway, having finally managed to compile Principia on a visual studio 2019 latest edition system, since this was done by a new-to-project person & system, I think feedback could be useful. if interested, let me know and happy to share my observations and two workarounds.

07:56 <discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Hmmm, First Jupiter encounter trajectory seems to be useful

07:56 <discord-> P​rofiremu23. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768744577494286356/screenshot538.png

07:57 <discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Just corrections to attempt flybys with the Galliei moons

08:29 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — So, apparently the crafts are still there, but Mun and Minmus have switched place, which is pretty cool.

08:29 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768752945063788554/screenshot30.png

08:49 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — @FabioKevin Is this your test with adding Principia to JNSQ?

08:52 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Yes, I'm testing principia on JNSQ

08:52 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — And it didn't do anything bad to my probes

08:53 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — Well, one that was previously in orbit around something is now heading to nothin, right?

08:53 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Yeah, that was my flyby probe to the Mun

08:59 <discord-> D​amien. — yeah minmus is moved in jnsq when using principia to maintain stability

09:01 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Yeah, I already knew that, and it makes it so darn cool

09:04 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — so minmus is further out whre it belongs?

09:05 <discord-> S​tandecco. — no, minmus is closer and mun is further

09:05 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — with or without principia in jnsq?

09:06 <discord-> S​tandecco. — with

09:07 <discord-> H​aukifile. — I'm getting really bad performance issues when I'm "orbiting" Phobos. It runs normally until Principia predicts impact, which is when framerate drops to < 1fps. Interestingly didn't encounter similar issues with Deimos, with a copy of the same vessel

13:13 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Damn, Principia is kind of hard, which is pretty darn cool

13:13 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768824234360963113/screenshot34.png

13:13 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Also, could anybody link me the travel to the Mun tutorial?

13:16 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — And I apparently used the wrong reference frame

13:18 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, I successfully plotted it

13:18 <discord-> H​aukifile. — 1. Launch into orbit in the plane of Mun

13:18 <discord-> H​aukifile. — 2. Set reference frame to Mun inertial

13:18 <discord-> H​aukifile. — 3. Do a flight plan that brings your periapsis close to Mun

13:19 <discord-> H​aukifile. — I don't think Principia is necessarily hard, I actually think it makes a lot of things a lot easier

13:19 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Ok, anyways, how do I put the manuever node for circularization?

13:19 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Yeah, it isn't hard, just forgot to set up the barycenter thing

13:20 <discord-> H​aukifile. — You need to make a flight plan, use inertial frame of reference as your plotting frame

13:23 <discord-> D​amien. — @FabioKevin <https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/A-guide-to-going-to-the-Mun-with-Principia>

13:24 <discord-> D​amien. — use mun centered earth aligned for making the transfer, then once you get it close switch to mun centered inertial to fine tune the flyby/capture

13:24 <discord-> D​amien. — or MCSF if it's an impactor

13:27 <discord-> H​aukifile. — huh, I've never even realized that's where to use the barycentric rotating frame

13:29 <discord-> e​gg. — no, the barycentric frame is useless, you always want to use the secondary-centred primary-aligned frame

13:29 <discord-> e​gg. — which should just be called the secondary primary-orbit frame

13:30 <discord-> e​gg. — and I should get rid of the barycentric frame, it leads to confusion

13:32 <discord-> S​umguy. — What would you use for brachistochrone trajectories?

13:34 <discord-> l​pg. — is there any way to see a Target vessel's predicted and/or past trajectory while landed?

13:35 <discord-> e​gg. — no, but this might be an interesting feature request

13:43 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — So, I think I got it?

13:43 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768832002785935390/screenshot38.png

13:47 <discord-> H​aukifile. — That takes you there, yes

13:48 <discord-> H​aukifile. — You can plan further maneuvers as well

13:48 <discord-> H​aukifile. — if you wan't to circularize etc

13:48 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — I want to circularize, how do I do it?

13:49 <discord-> H​aukifile. — you want to plan another maneuver near your Minmus periapsis and plot a retroburn to circularize

13:50 <discord-> H​aukifile. — since you want to orbit minmus, you'll want to plot the burn with the minmus centred inertial frame

13:51 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Which one of these is the Minmus centred inertial one?

13:51 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768833811533922354/screenshot39.png

13:51 <discord-> H​aukifile. — that's it

13:59 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — @Haukifile Should I already plot the circularization burn as the second manuever in my current flight plan or is that a bad idea?

14:01 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — There is a handy button labeled 'rebase' that you can press after performing a manuever if you plot more than one manouver at a time

14:07 <discord-> H​aukifile. — I usually plan them ahead to make sure I have enough dv etc

14:08 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, this is interesting, and probably unstable

14:08 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768838228886159401/screenshot41.png

14:08 <discord-> H​aukifile. — But you need to rebase and correct the plan after the first burn

14:09 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — I am pretty much trying to plan ahead

14:14 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, this is weird

14:14 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768839652370415626/screenshot42.png

14:16 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Is it normal that principia does this?

14:40 <discord-> e​gg. — no, but then I see "simulation active" and we tend to interact poorly with KRASH

14:43 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Oh

14:43 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, guess I won't be able to simulate a thing for testing

14:44 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — Did you start a sim in orbit around a body?

14:44 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — I started the sim at the surface

14:44 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — It only got the problem after a bunch of rebasing

14:44 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — And now this happened

14:45 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768847375284305950/screenshot43.png

14:45 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — hm, never encountered any problems there, but I have noticed that starting a sim in orbit around a body other than the homeworld causes issues

14:45 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — The fix is to change the orbit in the cheat menu

14:46 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — all orbits except a few are unstable with principia.

14:46 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — depends on your definition of "stable" really

14:46 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, I was trying to get a circular orbit

14:46 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — if "stable" = "won't crash" you can get away with a lot 😛

14:47 <discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer that is not a very useful definition of stable

14:47 <discord-> e​gg. — the one according to which "all orbits except a few are unstable with principia"

14:47 <discord-> e​gg. — orbits can precess, but that is not instability

14:47 <discord-> e​gg. — not anymore than you would call the motion of a satellite along its orbit instability

14:48 <discord-> e​gg. — (most lunar orbits are genuinely unstable though)

14:48 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — what use does the word stability have then in the context of orbits, since they pretty much all precess all the time?

14:50 <discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer basically, if inclination and the shape and size of the ellipse remains roughly the same forever (a, e, i stay within tight bounds) and Ω and ω drift regularly, you have a textbook stable orbit

14:51 <discord-> e​gg. — (then for some mission-specific purposes you may want to choose the drift rate of ω or Ω)

14:51 <discord-> e​gg. — e.g. a молния orbit has ω′=0

14:51 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — How do I get a stable circular orbit around Minmus? Also, if I can't use KRASH to simulate such thing as the delta-v requirements for it, then what should I do?

14:52 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Also, is launching into LAN gonna help in this sort of situation?

14:52 <discord-> e​gg. — and a heliosynchronous orbit has 2π / Ω′ = 1 year

14:52 <discord-> e​gg. — @FabioKevin if you want to understand what orbit you are on, you can use the orbit analyser https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Orbit-analysis

14:53 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ω′ being the value of ω at the next orbit, I presume

14:53 <discord-> e​gg. — as for the practical gameplay questions, I don’t know, I don’t play the game

14:53 <discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer no, being the derivative of ω with respect to time

14:53 <discord-> e​gg. — the apsidal precession

14:53 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @FabioKevin general advice: if you want to keep your satellites alive, put them into high orbits.

14:53 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. —

14:53 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — conditions apply.

14:54 <discord-> e​gg. — well, that is true if you have geopotential issues (or selenopotential issues)

14:54 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — I guess this is also caused by Krash, right?

14:54 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768849730012708884/screenshot44.png

14:54 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ever tried to orbit duna? ike kan be a real pain.

14:54 <discord-> e​gg. — @FabioKevin no, it is caused by not reading the error message

14:54 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ever tried to orbit duna? ike can be a real pain. (edited)

14:55 <discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer yes but then your issue is third-body effects, so you want low orbits

14:55 <discord-> e​gg. — where the third bodies don’t bother you too much

14:55 <discord-> e​gg. — (well, if even low orbit are iffy then go high to avoid the ground I guess)

14:55 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — that would be pretty damned very low for duna. ike is really close and really big

14:55 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Why is it not reading the error message, also, is there a FAQ for this?

14:55 <discord-> e​gg. — > Why is it not reading the error message

14:55 <discord-> e​gg. — Not it, you

14:56 <discord-> e​gg. — the orange thing is an error message for you

14:56 <discord-> e​gg. — which is actionable by you

14:56 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Oh, I feel stupid now

14:56 <discord-> e​gg. — it is trying to look at the orbit of your vessel around minmus

14:56 <discord-> e​gg. — you are not in orbit around minmus

14:56 <discord-> e​gg. — so it is not seeing an orbit

14:56 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — shoot i gotta play taxi driver, bbl

14:57 <discord-> e​gg. — \o

15:03 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Hey, I got a good one this time, just didn't have to make two manuever nodes at once

15:03 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768852125018357800/screenshot46.png

15:12 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — Nice

15:12 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/768854302072373297/screenshot47.png

15:13 <discord-> F​abioKevin. — And I just noticed KSP crashed

15:41 <discord-> l​pg. — dammit. I was just thinking "I haven't seen an instance of the #2640 crash in a while", so of course it happens the one time I don't quicksave before starting flight planning

15:52 <discord-> e​gg. — oh we should look at that journal at some point