raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Gateaux. We currently target 1.8.1, 1.9.1, and 1.10.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — do you think error in line #4 in the screenshot below would cause CTD or is it just a minor one?
<discord-> e​gg. — that is a crash
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — Log file created at: 2020/10/21 03:17:07
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — Running on machine: BRAINIAC2
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — Log line format: [IWEF]mmdd hh:mm:ss.uuuuuu threadid file:line] msg
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — @ 00007FFE02B16360 google::LogMessageFatal::~LogMessageFatal [0x00007FFE02B1635F+47]
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — @ 00007FFDC01BF85E (No symbol) [0x00007FFDC01BF85D]
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — @ 00007FFDC01A94A2 (No symbol) [0x00007FFDC01A94A1]
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — @ 00007FFE15F714C2 configthreadlocale [0x00007FFE15F714C1+145]
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — @ 00007FFE18347034 BaseThreadInitThunk [0x00007FFE18347033+19]
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — @ 00007FFE186BCEC1 RtlUserThreadStart [0x00007FFE186BCEC0+32]
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — F1021 03:17:07.698393 16076 push_deserializer_body.hpp:119] Check failed: message_->ParseFromCodedStream(&decoder)
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — hmm found this, in "FATAL.20201021-031707.13756.log"
<discord-> e​gg. — not sure why you are dumping a stack into the chat though
<discord-> e​gg. — but yes, this is a crash
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — ok thanks. I'll let Calvin know to log a support request then.
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — Log file created at: 2020/10/21 03:17:07
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — <snip>
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — F1021 03:17:07.698393 16076 push_deserializer_body.hpp:119] Check failed: message_->ParseFromCodedStream(&decoder) (edited)
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — ok thanks. I'll let Calvin know to log a support request then. and edited out most of the log from the msg above (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — there should be a corresponding FATAL file, right?
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — yes. that content (11 lines long) is the from the FATAL file (also named above). since we have established this is a fatal Principia error, probably need to learn about the proper bug reporting process and follow it
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — thank you
<discord-> e​gg. — in principle, we want the INFO
<discord-> e​gg. — here in this particular case it is quite clear what is happening (the proto is too big and hitting a limit somewhere)
<discord-> e​gg. — but to be honest we are setting it to 2^29 already here, and you are hitting that limit; it does not go much higher. https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/3f87ee41aa53ec722fb7fd3ed3ee4a4e1fcfaa1c/base/push_deserializer_body.hpp#L118
<discord-> e​gg. — So I suspect the answer to that bug would be « won’t fix », the save is just too big
<discord-> e​gg. — (and the reason why the save is too big is 2400 combined with not removing old debris)
<discord-> e​gg. — @murdock999wot @Calvin_Maclure in conclusion, we now know why there was a crash (and there *was* a FATAL after all), and we are not going to do anything about it, but you have a workaround already
<discord-> e​gg. — (and eventually we will deal with 2400, any century now)
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > but to be honest we are setting it to 2^29 already here, and you are hitting that limit; it does not go much higher. https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/3f87ee41aa53ec722fb7fd3ed3ee4a4e1fcfaa1c/base/push_deserializer_body.hpp#L118
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @egg 2^29??! That's... that's a big number!
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — 536870912 bytes
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<discord-> e​gg. — historical background https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/981
<discord-> e​gg. — (we might be able to probably bump it to 1 GiB or two but at that point the game is likely to be unplayably slow anyway)
<discord-> e​gg. — (we might be able to bump it to 1 GiB or two but at that point the game is likely to be unplayably slow anyway) (edited)
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Mmm... right. I just wish it was possible and playable to have a very... busy LEO env. It looks and feels... authentic.
<discord-> e​gg. — once 2400 is resolved
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Out of curiosity, what's the timeline for that? If any...
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Not that it's a game breaker...
<discord-> b​adgermasher. — > any century now
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Lol... yeah... saw that
<discord-> l​pg. — I'm amazed your game was playable at all, even aside from the save size
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Is it really that bad??
<discord-> e​gg. — well, it will always hurt max timewarp
<discord-> e​gg. — but if you don’t do much timewarping I guess that’s not a problem
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — I've had saves with much more junk in orbit. BUT... wasn't using Principia
<discord-> e​gg. — yes but nothing is the same with Principia
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > well, it will always hurt max timewarp
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @egg yes, this is very true. Can confirm
<discord-> e​gg. — the more junk you have, the more junk motion needs to be simulated
<discord-> e​gg. — so at the very least you have this computational cost, which limits how fast you can warp
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Yep, that makes perfect sense. I get that.
<discord-> l​pg. — at least principia doesn't try to compute the gravitational effects of vessels on other vessels 😛
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Hahaha... I mean... it's beyond insignificant. So in a way... it does... but not doing it
<discord-> e​gg. — as for your question: as you can see from looking at #2400 itself, we have been aware of the problem since the end of 2019. We did something (ZFP) that slightly improved matters in March. We have been working on the current line of research since June. It is not yet clear that the current approach will work, but it is promising.
<discord-> e​gg. —
<discord-> e​gg. — Timelines are not a thing in KSP modding.
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — And thanks for all your efforts! Principia is awesome. Glad I'm using itm
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — And thanks for all your efforts! Principia is awesome. Glad I'm using it. (edited)
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — How many... satellites, so not debris items, should one, then, in light of all of this, keep?
<discord-> l​pg. — if you weren't aware of any critical performance impact, as many as you want, so long as the save size is kept under control, I guess. note that _age_ of vessels is also a major factor
<discord-> l​pg. — personally I keep it trimmed to zero debris and only satellites that still serve a purpose, but that's pretty aggressive
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<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — It is, but I get the logic.
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Does age have a greater impact because it carries a greater trajectory history?
<discord-> l​pg. — exactly
<discord-> l​pg. — oh yeah, that's another option, trimming the history. but I don't think there's any way to do that other to, one vessel at a time, load the vessel and turn Hack Gravity on and off
<discord-> l​pg. — oh yeah, that's another option, trimming the history. but I don't think there's any way to do that other than to, one vessel at a time, load the vessel and turn Hack Gravity on and off (edited)
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Toggling hack gravity??
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<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] void4 starred Principia - https://git.io/JTEWW
<discord-> D​amien. — Yes that's the workaround
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<discord-> K​erbinator. — hack gravity???
<discord-> K​erbinator. — bruh
<discord-> K​erbinator. — How does this work
<discord-> D​amien. — principia doesn't knowing anything with jacked gravity exists so it removes the history. when you unhack gravity it appears again and principia then thinks it's a new craft
<discord-> D​amien. — principia doesn't know anything with jacked gravity exists so it removes the history. when you unhack gravity it appears again and principia then thinks it's a new craft (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — principia doesn't know anything with hacked gravity exists so it removes the history. when you unhack gravity it appears again and principia then thinks it's a new craft (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — it's a ksp cheat menu srtting
<discord-> D​amien. — it's a ksp cheat menu setting (edited)
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<discord-> D​amien. — it's like it dimension shifts back into the patched conics world
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<discord-> F​abioKevin. — Hey, is it possible to use mechjeb to do rendzvous in principia?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Why would you? It's very easy to eyeball it with the tools that Principia provide
<discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, I don't know why I would, honestly, I have never used Principia, and I haven't really seen many people on youtube doing principia rendzvous tutorials
<discord-> D​amien. — @FabioKevin rendezvous in principia is so much better than in stock
<discord-> e​gg. — if someone with eggsperience with actually playing wants to improve the guide they are welcome to do so
<discord-> F​abioKevin. — Would be nice having pictures of a tutorial rendezvous instead of just letters
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — You get nice noodles. like the one in DM2
<discord-> F​abioKevin. — Also, does using principia in an already existing savefile damage it?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — IIRC the main problem is that the position of celestials change, If you have no vessels in flight it *should* be ok to add principia, but take a backup!
<discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, I do have already existing vessels in flights, but its just some probes with science that was already done in orbit of the Mun and Kerbin, but yeah, I'll take a backup
<discord-> D​amien. — @FabioKevin I did try to make a tutorial series (just video, no commentary) on stock ksp with principia if it helps https://youtu.be/cJFqNxonOBo
<discord-> D​amien. — feel free to mute it to not have to listen to the music I had playing
<discord-> F​abioKevin. — Wait, does mechjeb autolanding work with Principia?
<discord-> D​amien. — not sure
<discord-> D​amien. — I only use MJ for ascent to orbit
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — The larger problem is that the autoland doesn't work with RO
<discord-> F​abioKevin. — Well, I'm using JNSQ with no mods which adds ignitions.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — It might work then
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<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — just a small feedback if it's welcome here: on the page (blob/master/documentation/Setup.md), under the "Instructions for building Principia on Windows" section, under dependencies sub-section, there are a bunch of 3rd party libs with links to your forks of each. the link for LLNL zfp lib appears to be pointing at blob/master/documentation. I already found it via mockingbirdnest all repos bu
<discord-> e​gg. — ah, yes, that appears to be a typo
<discord-> e​gg. — note that `rebuild_all_solutions` will do the right thing anyway, you do not need to download or find these repos by hand
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JTEA3
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin 4428e8c - Missing link to ZFP.
<discord-> e​gg. — fixed.
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<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — ah yes there's a loop there, cool
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — well, I started reading from top to bottom. with hindsight, might have been a good idea to read it all first rather than read a bit & action a bit approach
<discord-> e​gg. — yes, much like a maths textbook it starts making sense once you have read the whole thing
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<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — 🎼 🎶 🎵
* raptop blinks at the emoji presentation
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — i really should have a piano at the office.
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<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — "WARNING: Could not find Visual Studio version 16.7.2; falling back to VisualStudio/16.7.6+30611.23 from:"
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — is the 16.7.2 a hard requirement or just because it was the version when it was written?
<discord-> e​gg. — it is the version with which we are working at the moment
<discord-> e​gg. — there is nothing special about it other than "we have not upgraded in a little while"
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — I looked at "adding 16.7.2" to my computer but looks like I have to uninstall VS .6 and then re install .2 which is a bit of a hassle
<discord-> e​gg. — I don’t think you would have to uninstall .6.
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — compile failed. I'm trying to understand if it's failing due to this or something else
<discord-> e​gg. — there are some compiler bugs worked around with ifdefs that check for the exact version number so that we can notice and remove them when they go away
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<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — thank you egg. as you said, no need to reinstall (although a microsoft forum post, by a guy with MSFT tag in the name clearly said so). simply getting the 1.3MB exe for matching version lets one dowload & install any/all components for an older vs2019 edition from this link https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2019/history#release-dates-and-build-numbers
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — even though vs2019 v16.4.2 is installed, since I haven't removed the latest vs2019, it's not the primary in the major version and it appears vswhere.exe lists the major version only
<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — due to the above when .\Principia\rebuild_all_solutions.ps1 calls find_msbuild.ps1 which in turn calls vswhere.exe and comes back with "req'd vs2019 v.16.4.2 not found - falling back to vs2019 v.16.7.6" state. wrong compiler version gets used and build fails. hmm annoying
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<discord-> m​urdock999wot. — what is the version of "C++/cli support for v142 build tools" that you use? or does it not matter? I used latest version that's available in vs2019 build-tools-installer version 16.4.2 and that is 14.24. alternative available options in this build-tools-installer are 14.16, 14.20, 14.21, 14.22, 14.23. I got a C2953 error and guessing I'm using wrong compiler version
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