egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-> ⟨Iodyne⟩ Does anyone know what might cause a celestial body to not leave a history trail? I've added several planet packs in the past that work (OPM, MPE, GEP, Extrasolar) but some others like Kcalbeloh just don't show the orbits. Does anyone know what conflict this might be caused by?
<queqiao-> ⟨rsparkyc⟩ ⟪lpg⟫ but how do you pronounce principia ⮪ we should update the readme with a pronunciation guide
<raptop> Careful, you *know* that egg would make sure to list it using the IPA
<paculino> Acceptable: How egg and sichelgaita pronounce it, how Newton pronounced it, and how the Romans pronounced it.
<paculino> What other way is acceptable besides IPA?
<raptop> hm
<paculino> Is it rap top, rapt op, or ra ptop?
<raptop> rap top
<raptop> we've revised the (umbral)raptor format for increased portability
<paculino> What will you do if/when you need irc on a third machine?
<paculino> penumbralraptop?
<raptop> heh
<raptop> Really just stop being lazy and setup a bouncer
<paculino> I have one. Apparently clients don't like it when you already have a 40 ms ping and then use a bouncer hosted somewhere that's nearly antipodal to the room you're connecting to.
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<queqiao-> ⟨Bella Rose⟩ Just a sanity check, principia wouldn't affect a rocket's ability to reach altitude following the rp1 first rocket guide?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ no, it wouldn't
<queqiao-> ⟨EMPERORINTERNET⟩ what's the cheapest transfer to the moon you ever managed? managed to get one for just about 3090m/s and 80 days transfer time
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ it depends on parking orbit altitude, so could be anything
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ but 80 days transfer time... why?
<queqiao-> ⟨EMPERORINTERNET⟩ just trying out principia
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ but 80 days transfer time... why? ⮪ low energy transfer I guess
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ yes, i mean, why do it
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ yes, i mean, why do it ⮪ because it's cool
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ I did one via ESL1 that used about 3200dv
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ it ends with a ballistic capture, no braking?
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ single ejection burn and then ballistic capture
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ it ends with a ballistic capture, no […] ⮪ yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨EMPERORINTERNET⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ yes, i mean, why do it ⮪ because someone spent a lot of time modeling n body physics in a 10 year old space game
<queqiao-> ⟨EMPERORINTERNET⟩ or in other words: because i can
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ send a probe to the moon via boring old hohmann transfer, or doing a completely pointless n-body trickshot
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ i wonder what kind of orbit it enters after the ballistic capture
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ 3200m/s total sounds nice; "~18% less dv" sounds pretty uninteresting
<queqiao-> ⟨EMPERORINTERNET⟩ you can always slap on more boosters or add another 100tons in game, but why have n body physics if you're not gonna use them
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ to make accurate flight planning possible (can't be done with patched conics)?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ found this, they claim that 10-day transfers with ballistic capture are possible, I obviously don't understand anything there
<queqiao-> Fast Earth–Moon transfers with ballistic capture
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ it's not low energy though, it needs 3.7 km/s dV
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ but if this is what i think it would be useful (one departure burn for 3.7km/s that somehow doesn't leave the "SOI" of Earth and the probe ends up in a lunar orbit?)
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ +is, that
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ No, it's not, there are two burns so it's not useful either.
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ i wonder what kind of orbit it enters […] ⮪ a pretty chaotic one that in patched conic terms keeps dipping in and out of the moon SOI
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ So not a useful one
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ and it will need a rather large maneuver to make it useful
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ depends on the definition of useful. If you look at the planned mission of Pioneer 0/1 that was meant to capture into a chaotic orbit too
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ albeit with a burn
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ So these orbits don't fulfill RP1 contracts, are not good for comms relays, are probably not good for science probes either, are maybe somewhat useful (after large corrections) if you just need to bring cargo to moon orbit
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ I define it not useful
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ it being chaotic, through randomness it'll eventually do what you want (pass over a place or get a low enough Pe to be worth a capture burn) providing it doesn't eject or slam into the moon first
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ if your objective is low or high moon science, or a flyby or whatever it'll probably meet those conditions at some point in the orbit
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ but yeah if you have the ability to do a controlled capture then a chaotic orbit is a bit useless
<queqiao-> ⟨Damien2⟩ these low energy transfers are purely a Dv saving exercise at the cost of time
<queqiao-> ⟨Iodyne⟩ Does anyone know what might cause a […] ⮪ Noone?
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<queqiao-> ⟨Proton | Mod.ROTanks Protester⟩ How can I essentially lower the Venus periapsis effectively? I'm at a LAN of 8°, and coasting at a 155km LEO. I'm at the earliest launch window, yet I am still struggling to get my periapsis below 10Gm.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ the usual check: is your LAN and inclination the same as shown by TWP?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ (the launch date should also be the same but this is kind of obvious)
<queqiao-> ⟨Proton | Mod.ROTanks Protester⟩ "Ejection LAN" is it?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Yes
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ And ejection inclination
<queqiao-> ⟨Proton | Mod.ROTanks Protester⟩ I always just selected Venus and put "Launch to Plane of Target" which got me about 8° LAN, thanks!
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ no, this doesn't work
<queqiao-> ⟨Proton | Mod.ROTanks Protester⟩ Actually, now that I think about it, it's quite a miracle I got first Venus Flyby with this method.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ this is what it should look like
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ same LAN and inclination as shown by TWP
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Venus flyby is just luck, Venus has low relative inclination with Earth and you happened to be in the same plane
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ while correct LAN and inclination gives you this
<queqiao-> ⟨Proton | Mod.ROTanks Protester⟩ Wait.. I am in the same LAN and target orbit TWP specified I should be in, including the date.. yet I am now way farther away? (40GM) What did I do wrong for this one?
<queqiao-> ⟨Marsh⟩ Change the departure location in your orbit and adjust prograde slightly. If you launched to the lan and inclination TWP gave you it should be pretty close but never perfect
<queqiao-> ⟨Proton | Mod.ROTanks Protester⟩ ⟪Marsh⟫ Change the departure location in your […] ⮪ departur?e location
<queqiao-> ⟨Proton | Mod.ROTanks Protester⟩ * departure location?
<queqiao-> ⟨Marsh⟩ The time you depart
<queqiao-> ⟨Gratak-⟩ Adjust the maneuver
<queqiao-> ⟨Gratak-⟩ Moving the time and changing the prograde amount
<queqiao-> ⟨Gratak-⟩ It's never perfectly correct. Often off by 50-100dV
<queqiao-> ⟨Gratak-⟩ And if you can't get any closer by changing one, the other needs changing. You just never need to touch and of the other directions if you launched correctly
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