egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ does anyone else notice that setting the plan length to 0 using the "0" button just doesnt work at all?
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ also, is there any way to get the coordinates of an impact?
<queqiao->
⟨night_beast⟩ Is there any way to see a specific spot on an orbit? Like I want to see that my predicted orbit around the KSC is in the ballpark of 40KM so I know I'll be breaking hard at that point
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ If only there was a way to add important things to an easily accessible list. To pin them somewhere to make them easy to find.
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ I don't think the technology has been invented though
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<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ There is no crash in these three files, because there is no "FATAL" file. If you have a crash folder (in "%USERPROFILE%\AppData\...", please attach it to the bug. Also please include the "KSP.log" file located in your KSP install.
<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ Could you be more precise? What do you mean by "to get"? To display? To obtain programmatically? (The answer to the latter is: nope.) Also, what do you mean by "coordinates"? In what frame?
<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ It would help if, instead a requesting a random feature that may be hard/impossible to implement, you explained what you are trying to do.
<queqiao->
⟨siimav⟩ Surprised you ask for ksp.log instead of player.log in case of crashes.
<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ Somehow I thought that it was in the crash directory. We should update these instructions, I guess.
<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ There is no crash in these three files, because there is no "FATAL" file. If you have a crash folder (in "%USERPROFILE%\AppData\...", please attach it to the bug. Also please include the "KSP.log" file located in your KSP install and the "%USERPROFILE%\AppData\LocalLow\Squad\Kerbal Space Program\Player.log" file.
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ jeez man, im just asking a question
<queqiao->
is there any way to see the coordinates of an impact in a surface frame?
<queqiao->
⟨drveyl⟩ They're at 0,0,0. Done.
<queqiao->
Ability to discover the frame centered at the point of impact: TBD.
<queqiao->
⟨drveyl⟩ Perhaps in your response to the dev specifically asking for your use case instead of the piece of data you think you need that they consider insufficiently defined... you'll try it their way and answer their question.
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ Knowing the lat/long is one thing when talking about earth. A completely different question when talking about other bodies
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ how?
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ Consider how we determine lat/long on earth. We use the equator and Greenwich meridian to reference from
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ What system do we use on phobos
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ What coordinate system would the game use for consistency on all bodies
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ i think latitude would be easier to get right? the equator isnt just a made up a line
<queqiao->
⟨drveyl⟩ Where is it on a non rotating body?
<queqiao->
⟨prdxcl⟩ This is not true when when speaking of bodies nonspherical bodies
<queqiao->
Even the Earth has some issues with this which is why IRL you have to use the WGS84 reference ellipsoid when converting latitude and longitude to and from ECEF coordinates
<queqiao->
⟨prdxcl⟩ -bodies
<queqiao->
⟨prdxcl⟩ +(which bulges at the equator, making latitude conversions annoying)
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ got it, thanks
<queqiao->
is there perhaps a way to see the angle between the impact point and the trajectory?
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ What are you trying to to that this would help with?
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ unguided lunar lander, trying to make it so the prograde vector is going perfectly straight down to the terrain
<queqiao->
⟨lpg4999⟩ this conversation sounds like just pedantry. _in ksp_, "what are my longitude and lattitude on phobos" isn't a trick question, it's something you just ask mechjeb and get an answer
<queqiao->
⟨lpg4999⟩ if principia were to that answer is wrong and it's impossible to give the real answer, principia would just be wrong
<queqiao->
⟨lpg4999⟩ +decide
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ If you decelerate before touchdown I'm sure gravity will handle that
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ well i have an unguided stage that does most of the work for the landing burn, and then a guided stage with a very limited amount of delta-v and also how fast it can turn, so i want it to be close to vertical
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ Right, so you want to make sure your attitude is vertical
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ Because your decent angle will be vertical regardless of attitude if you cancel your horizontal velocity
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ But you may not be oriented vertically
<queqiao->
⟨clayel⟩ i should note that the unguided stage is burning retrograde, not up, since i could find an easy way to point up relative to the moon when staging from earth
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ TIL that MJ can give you lat/long for an impact point on a body you haven't landed on yet
<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ I am still unsure why "you are going to impact Phobos at latitude 72° N, longitude 37° E" is a useful piece of information. (There is actually a reference meridian on Phobos, defined by the IAU.)
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ It's not. We've established that the question really is "how can I plan a trajectory such that a craft with no attitude control will be pointing the right way for a deceleration burn"
<queqiao->
⟨tdk747⟩ theres an easy workaround for this though, in the mechjeb landing info tab you can select a landing site and it displays coordinates and biome info
<queqiao->
⟨tdk747⟩ and principia displays where the impact will be
<queqiao->
⟨tdk747⟩ so you can just eyeball it which is accurate enough for ksp
<queqiao->
⟨lpg4999⟩ coordinates on phobos are never going to be especially useful, but not because being in a precise point on phobos isn't useful. it's not especially useful because if you land on the wrong spot on phobos, it's trivial to fix it. On the other hand, if you've been asked to land your rover at spot X,Y on the moon, knowing that your landing point is going to be X, Y is obviously useful
<queqiao->
⟨lpg4999⟩ it _would_ be a very principia thing to do to allow selecting _different_ reference frames, such as "this target vessel is at 0, 0"
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ True but practically, the surface fixed frame trajectory line and a waypoint marker does the job for that. His issue was attitude for a landing burn
<queqiao->
⟨lpg4999⟩ it does a piss-poor job
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ Eyeball all the things
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ Everyone knows all you need to to is burn to the horizon when the mun rises on it
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ * do
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ Ezpz ksp completed
<queqiao->
⟨lpg4999⟩ "ksp: it does a piss-poor job" probably wouldn't have made it past marketing
<queqiao->
⟨Damien⟩ That was the tagline for KSP2
<raptop>
stock KSP: your margins are such that you can just use rough heuristics and eyeball lots of things