<Unknown601>
VITAS, what did you think of the G20 summit?
<VITAS>
"Please dont stone my servers"
<VITAS>
if you want politics: i know people on both sides (black block and police) and both told different storys.
<Unknown601>
did you see any of the protestds
<Unknown601>
*protesters
<VITAS>
i tendto belive the black block because one person actualy was in the second front row when it escalated and my police friends wherent that close to the place of escalation
<VITAS>
i was at home
<VITAS>
all i could see was thick black smoke engolfing the redison hotel
<VITAS>
so it looked like it was on fire and somehow 911ish
<VITAS>
i would have gone to a demonstration but i knew it would escalate so i didnt go near the area
<Unknown601>
wow, so it went down not far from you then
<Unknown601>
good idea
<VITAS>
no i would say 2-5km away
<VITAS>
and ive a postcard skyline view of hamburg
<Unknown601>
nice
<VITAS>
but it was the street where i usualy go out to eat or visit pubs
<Unknown601>
i always thought you lives right in the city for some reason
<Unknown601>
lived*
<VITAS>
and the base of operations for the left wing was the building the ccc is in
<VITAS>
its sort of right in the city
<VITAS>
but hamburg has 2 million
<VITAS>
so its large enough to be its own county
<Unknown601>
that is big considering all of aust is around 20mil
<Unknown601>
and its huge!
<VITAS>
if you want detail take a map of hamburg: im in "farmsen" northeast
* Unknown601
googles
<VITAS>
and the protests wher between the exibitopn area and "sternschanze" in "st. pauli"
<VITAS>
thats center west
<VITAS>
in general: its a very bad ida to do something like g20 in a alternative left wing neiberhood
<Unknown601>
looks nice around here
<VITAS>
a lot of trees
<VITAS>
:D
<Unknown601>
street view
<Unknown601>
first car seen VW :D
<VITAS>
yes but streetview in germany is outdated
<VITAS>
to many people sued google
<Unknown601>
wow your right 08
<VITAS>
german cars are common in germany :D
<VITAS>
btw: hamburg has a big harbur with container terminals
<VITAS>
simply because: we use specalists for stuff we dont know about all the time
<VITAS>
so politicians are just another kind of professionals
<VITAS>
problem beeing that not everyone can get what he wants
<Unknown601>
the people have no understanding what they are voting for
<VITAS>
(its not as individual as choosing a car mechanic because youre sharing the thing you want a professional for)
<VITAS>
isnt that the fault of the politicians?
<Unknown601>
most people could not even find Syria on a map, yet they vote in someone who is waging a war there
<VITAS>
its their job to clearly state what they stand for and what not
<VITAS>
but they want to stand for everyone
<VITAS>
even thos whos opinion they secretly dont like
<Unknown601>
well 51%
<Unknown601>
anyway..
<Unknown601>
its a flawed system
<Unknown601>
lets stop there :)
<VITAS>
i think trump might be a fitting reflection of many of the us american people
<VITAS>
even if soem might find it sad
<VITAS>
but its the same with other countries
<VITAS>
where people can freely* elect their leaders
<Unknown601>
i think you might be right
<VITAS>
the problem is what people think is ok
<VITAS>
not the system
<Unknown601>
:/ Russia is the the only sane diplomatic country left
<VITAS>
i feel like people get more and more egocentric
<Unknown601>
yes
<VITAS>
and they forget what i was told is ethical or good behavior over it
<Unknown601>
people just don't care for anyone else anymore
<VITAS>
so isnt it fitting that they vote for egomaniacs?
<Unknown601>
yeah
<VITAS>
and isnt patriotism and nationalism another word for egocentric on a country/ethnic level?
<Unknown601>
"Because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off."
<VITAS>
i dont think its lawless
<VITAS>
people feel insignificant
<VITAS>
and lost
<Unknown601>
and all they care about is themselves
<VITAS>
its politicans that make terrorists and tell you that they can help you with that problem
<VITAS>
if you get told at work youre not enough because the boss wants more productivness and workhours out of you
<Unknown601>
yeah, things are spiraling out of control
<VITAS>
and if youre in your freetime told by all the social crap your on that you dont have enough friends
<VITAS>
and are insignificant because youre no member
<VITAS>
and didnt buy x
<VITAS>
and if your firends arent your real friends and dont invite you to x because you missed their messenger group
<Unknown601>
pair-pressure
<VITAS>
what would you think of yourself
<VITAS>
if that lasts for years 24h a day?
<VITAS>
you would give in
<VITAS>
and work more than is healthy only to burn out
<Unknown601>
yeah
<Unknown601>
i would not but most people do
<VITAS>
buy the new x all the time to get soem thumbs up on some website from people who are told to you by that site are your friends
<VITAS>
and you would vote someone who would make youre live easier
<Unknown601>
BRB
<VITAS>
and give you room to breathe
<VITAS>
because all that shopping has drained your bank account and you wont get that raise because youre a willing working drione and theres no reason to pay you more for the same work
<VITAS>
and all that demand will put so much presure on you that you want others to do stuff for you
<VITAS>
so you ask $big corp to find restaurants, friends, media, the route,... for you because they offer it for free and lighten your lode
<VITAS>
loade
<VITAS>
and there you have it: average joe
<Unknown601>
sorry back was called away
<VITAS>
empty bank account, in fear of losing his job, slave to google/facebook/apple/microsoft
* Unknown601
reads the back log
<VITAS>
and in fear of terrorist attacks and everything
<Unknown601>
i agree with what you are saying
<VITAS>
and btw the media isnt the problem
<VITAS>
nor is fakenews
<VITAS>
in terms of propaganda
<Unknown601>
So where do you think its all going? WW3? NWO?
<VITAS>
its 1. how critical the consumer is
<VITAS>
and 2. if they let others select their news(sources)
<VITAS>
giving others the ability to control what you see is giving them control over you
<Unknown601>
why do you think they called it the Teli-Vision
<Unknown601>
Tele-Vision
<VITAS>
they called it "fernsehen" because it was invented in germany :D
<VITAS>
tele-vision because of tele-fon
<Unknown601>
ah
<Unknown601>
still it was and is still used to tell people there vision
<VITAS>
might be but so was the radio
<VITAS>
:D
<Unknown601>
for sure!
<VITAS>
TV,radio,.... arent the problem
<Unknown601>
news papers radio tv internet media
<VITAS>
they are a channel
<Unknown601>
yes
<VITAS>
it always contains what people want to hear and see
<Unknown601>
the technology is not inherently bad
<VITAS>
facebook is a big corp because people want it to be
<VITAS>
but that doesnt make the internet bad or the reason for something
<Unknown601>
no not at all, there just ways to get access to the people
<VITAS>
people are the reason why people do stuff that influences willing people in a certain way
<VITAS>
so: propagandists are still people who where influenced to do the kind of propaganda they do
<Unknown601>
mostly by the top 1%
<Unknown601>
i would expect
<VITAS>
no
<VITAS>
EVERYONE is influenced to do what they do
<Unknown601>
by who?
<VITAS>
parents
<VITAS>
friends
<VITAS>
siblings
<VITAS>
people they meet
<Unknown601>
but why influenced those people
<Unknown601>
there is a overarching agenda
<VITAS>
influence isnt always done willingly
<VITAS>
you could e.g. argue athat:
<Unknown601>
of cause not, a lot of it is unconscious
<VITAS>
because of anti authoritarian parents
<VITAS>
who where educated in the 60s
<Unknown601>
people are made to "feel" a certain way about something
<VITAS>
and wanted to be authoreterian because of their stiff conservertive parents
<VITAS>
their children became egocentric princes and presses
<VITAS>
(because noone gave them limits)
<VITAS>
and those kids grew up to be helicopter parents and generall assholes of today
<Unknown601>
yep
<VITAS>
who overcontroll their children in aparanoidic way (because they think its their right to know and control everything)
<Unknown601>
the human race is slowly falling apart
<VITAS>
some of those people became influencal politicans, media moguls and so on
<VITAS>
and they in turn spread their idea oif what and how the world should be
<Unknown601>
this makes me think of a movie trailer
<VITAS>
so you see that even those people where influenced
<VITAS>
and their agenda is caused by other humans
<VITAS>
i dont think that its falling apart
<VITAS>
you have the children of the 20s
<VITAS>
going through ww2
<VITAS>
and learnign to not show emotions
<VITAS>
having children who (in order to rebel) do the exact oposite
<VITAS>
(free love, drugs, and no boundrys)
<VITAS>
and they in turn spawn a generation of egocentric conservative hipsters
<VITAS>
so its pingpong
<VITAS>
only problem: the current generation of children of those helicopter parents still think everything is free
<VITAS>
because theyre used to beeing offered free stuff everywhere and dont know hardship
<Unknown601>
this is interesting I have not had anyone lay it out like this before, but your missing the fact people like edward bernays created these "rebellions"
<Unknown601>
and shaped each generation to there will
<Unknown601>
VITAS, if I understand you correctly, you think that the changes from generation to generation are organic based on the world environment of the previous generation affecting the upbringing of the next.
<VITAS>
yes
<VITAS>
its evolution
<Unknown601>
ok
<VITAS>
organisems try to mutate in reaction to thair surounding
<VITAS>
-a +e
<Unknown601>
so the only thing we differ on is that, I think there are people controlling this
<Unknown601>
Propaganda explored the psychology behind manipulating masses and the ability to use symbolic action and propaganda to influence politics, effect social change, and lobby for gender and racial equality.
* Unknown601
Propaganda, an influential book written by Edward L. Bernays in 1928,
<VITAS>
someone who is that different from all other humans in that he/she isnt influenced by his/her life
<VITAS>
cant exist
<VITAS>
because they wouldnt be able to learn
<VITAS>
or react
<Unknown601>
so i would expect that is true
<Unknown601>
sure*
<VITAS>
e.g. they would do the same mistakes over and over in a loop
<Unknown601>
did i say i was unaffected?
<VITAS>
noone is
<VITAS>
but some think they are
<Unknown601>
ok, but what i say above stills stand true
<Unknown601>
its the hidden hand
<VITAS>
because it would break them to accept that they arent as unique and in control as they want to be
<Unknown601>
the people don't know there been lead
<Unknown601>
they think there rebelling\
<VITAS>
but there isnt some mastermind doing it
<VITAS>
its everyone all the time
<VITAS>
and everything everywhere
<VITAS>
im influencing you right now
<VITAS>
and you me
<Unknown601>
:) there has been many leaders and masterminds
<VITAS>
the only discussion that isnt finished in phsycology is: what parts are genetic and what parts are trained
<VITAS>
i say: everything is genetic
<VITAS>
because you wouldnt be able to learn or accept it the way you are if you wouldnt have the brain to do it
<VITAS>
all that makes a humans room to break the mold smaller
<VITAS>
its no problem for me because i want to be happy
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AWAY
<Unknown601>
i don't see how genetics have much to do with it, its about controling the mind of the masses
<VITAS>
(and i know my body drives me to be that)
<VITAS>
so i accept that reality isn an illusion and time too
<VITAS>
and im not master of my desires and so on
<Unknown601>
could you clarify your meaning for "body"
<VITAS>
my body gives me drugs when im happy
<VITAS>
so i want to be happy
<VITAS>
and it defines what happy is
<VITAS>
:)
<VITAS>
e.g. you fall in love
<VITAS>
or you are liked by others
<Unknown601>
happy can be many things and different things from person to person, its what your mind believes is "Happy" then your mind sends the signal to your body to produce the cemicals
<VITAS>
yes
<VITAS>
aka drugs
<Unknown601>
a murder gets happiness from killing, because of the way his brain is wired from his life experiences
<VITAS>
drug: something addicting that makes you feel good
<VITAS>
if you adress mor ecomplex actions it isnt that simply
<VITAS>
because a complex chain of events connected happyness to certen situations
<VITAS>
so murdering wasnt always something that made that poerson happy
<Unknown601>
i think you just agreed with me
<VITAS>
i might have
<Unknown601>
:)
<VITAS>
im not always disagreeing with you
<VITAS>
we have areas where we dont
<Unknown601>
ok your turn to sum up where at :)
<Unknown601>
I was not implying you disagree all the time
<VITAS>
i know
<VITAS>
but you seemd excited that we did
<Unknown601>
sometimes you can read to much into IRC i think
<Unknown601>
if i use a face then i am excited :D
<VITAS>
its about the bandwidth of the communications channel
<Unknown601>
yeah
<VITAS>
thats why you should always talk abnout important stuff in person
<VITAS>
and if not possible call them
<Unknown601>
yeah
<VITAS>
trivia: dogs are the only other species apart from humans who can read human facial expressions
<Unknown601>
never really thought about it but i would call someone if possible over a email
<VITAS>
bandwidth also includes delay
<VITAS>
email is worse than chat
<Unknown601>
yeah by far
<VITAS>
only advantage: you can think before you write
<Unknown601>
hmm this is interesting
<VITAS>
because the pressure isnt that high to produce answersy
<VITAS>
-y
<Unknown601>
yeah, but if its not business then i like the realtime chating
<VITAS>
i like calling becaus ei type all day
<VITAS>
unless its people who like to beat arround the bush
<Unknown601>
yeah
<VITAS>
my boss does that
<VITAS>
in fact both of them do
<Unknown601>
i wonder if its possible to increase the bandwidth of IRC
<VITAS>
smilys did that
<Unknown601>
i mean more
<VITAS>
and * bla*
<VITAS>
does
<Unknown601>
like using caps selectively
<Unknown601>
and colors and bolding
<VITAS>
i do that
<Unknown601>
to me caps are loud or angry
<Unknown601>
what are they to you?
<VITAS>
loud
<VITAS>
and loud can be angry
<VITAS>
i always imagine a room without windows and white walls/ceeling/floor to be the channel
<VITAS>
and the people fill it
<VITAS>
sometimes its like a cafè
<VITAS>
with round tables and chairs
<Unknown601>
:P never thought about it that way
<VITAS>
where groups of people sit and talk
<Unknown601>
i like that
<VITAS>
sometimes its more like a living room
<VITAS>
where couches are arranged ina big circle
<Unknown601>
thought because i have seen your computer setup I imagine that
<VITAS>
so if i write i always have a sound in my head
<Unknown601>
oh and i added a big window to the side witha that view you spoke of :D
<VITAS>
and the same if someon else does
<Unknown601>
same
<VITAS>
problem: its all imaghination
<VITAS>
and that can differ
<Unknown601>
do you give different people different voices?\
<VITAS>
so the only way you can increase on that is by adding real info
<VITAS>
sometimes
<VITAS>
but its more like reading
<VITAS>
like fiction books
<VITAS>
and i know how some people sound
<Unknown601>
yeah, i would say its the "book voice" for me to
<Unknown601>
the narrator in my head as it where
<VITAS>
so all you could do is add real *i do* things instead imiganinary ones
<Unknown601>
yes
<VITAS>
because you usualy do *hands a cup of tea* and arent doing that
<Unknown601>
yes
<VITAS>
but still
<VITAS>
its your perception of reality
<VITAS>
and not mine or someone elses
<VITAS>
so all you can do is give a more outside look on your expressions and voice
<VITAS>
and thats when chat isnt enough
<Unknown601>
yeah. i think i should pay more mind to grammer and spelling for that reason
<VITAS>
i try to be very precise with my words
<VITAS>
with english not beeing my mother language beeing a bit more problematic
<VITAS>
but ive learned 2 things
<Unknown601>
you do a fine job :)
<VITAS>
1. people think your e arrogant or you want to show off by using exotic words
<VITAS>
and 2. people arent as precise in parsing what youve said
<VITAS>
thx
<Unknown601>
never thought about point 1
<Unknown601>
good point :P
<VITAS>
so even if i transmitt a lot of metadata people wont/cant use it
<VITAS>
"1." is part of the communication model
<VITAS>
with active and passiv vocabulary
<VITAS>
and the set both use and can understand
<Unknown601>
who's communication model?
<VITAS>
so its like: (personAPasivVocabulary - personAActiveVocabulary) - (personBPasivVocabulary - personBActiveVocabulary) = words used in a conversation
<VITAS>
so its basicly is: active vocabulary=words used by a person
<VITAS>
passive= words understood
<Unknown601>
yeah
<VITAS>
active is a sub amount of passive
<VITAS>
so if two people write
<VITAS>
both can only use words that are in their active vocabulary and in the passive one of the reciver
<VITAS>
meaning: even if your active one is large you can only be as precise as the pool of the reciver allowes you
<Unknown601>
sometimes I find my self worrying if I look up at the chat and see I have produced 80%+ of the text, gives me the feeling the other party might not be interested
<VITAS>
and he can only give you precise enough feedback as his active one allowes him
<Unknown601>
yeah
<VITAS>
and that applies not only to words but facial expressions, smell, and all other ways of communication
<Unknown601>
ah
<VITAS>
and to add to that: for both a word must have the same meaning
<VITAS>
and futher more theres noise
<VITAS>
so if i produce a lot of typos or have packet drops
<VITAS>
you wont have the context as i do
<Unknown601>
yeah
<VITAS>
and thats the communication model
<VITAS>
and its problems with bringing your point across
<Unknown601>
How would you categorize my text communication?
<Unknown601>
don't hold back.
<VITAS>
you mean rate it?
<Unknown601>
sure
<Unknown601>
based on the communication model
<VITAS>
you do soemthing very well: positive enforcement trough positive feedback
<VITAS>
stuff like "<Unknown601> good point" "<Unknown601> yeah"...
<VITAS>
you appear to be willing to listen and learn
<Unknown601>
I'm glade you picked up on that :)
<VITAS>
and people like to be a teacher and leader
<VITAS>
so its soemthing often used in social engineering :)
<Unknown601>
so i don't over do the "<Unknown601> good point" "<Unknown601> yeah"...
<VITAS>
(disclaimer: that doesnt mean that you do it)
<VITAS>
no and you dont interrupt the monologue
<VITAS>
i dont knowi if that works in chat
<VITAS>
but in vocial conversations its an additional trick to repeat phrases as quastions
<VITAS>
like: "so youre saying that...."
<Unknown601>
used that about a hour ago
<VITAS>
the question is: what is your goal in a conversion?
<Unknown601>
i find its a good way to get all the small pieces that buildup and bring then together then move forward again with a clear understanding
<VITAS>
want to be liked? want to convince? want to have smalltalk?
<VITAS>
if you want to be liked and employ social engineering tachtics to achive that
<VITAS>
youve to lie about your true opnion on things
<VITAS>
and that hampers your ability to bring your point across
<Unknown601>
you should have a look at Neuro-linguistic programming
<VITAS>
e.g. if you want to get a women to like you you could employ social engineering aka sweet talk to get her to like you
<VITAS>
i know that you can guide people in directions and so on
<Unknown601>
yes, i practice that in a way at work(dealing with clients)
<VITAS>
ive learned that as a kid with my mum and sister
<VITAS>
they are very strong willed
<VITAS>
so i made them belive that it was their idea
<VITAS>
i find that whole social engineering thing quite interresting and handy but
<Unknown601>
yeah i understand how it works
<VITAS>
i find it more interresting to not always be as understanding and easy to like
<VITAS>
also people realy do like some dominance
<VITAS>
but its more about beeing me and not always sacreficing my opinion to the agenda of social engineering
* VITAS
goes now to do some sundy lazyness stuff
<Unknown601>
yeah, as you know i don't really hold back on here
<Unknown601>
social engineered friends are not real friends
<Unknown601>
VITAS, ok have a great sunday o/
<VITAS>
l8er
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