UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<egg|zzz|egg>
!u うお
<Qboid>
U+3046 HIRAGANA LETTER U (う)
<Qboid>
U+304A HIRAGANA LETTER O (お)
<whitequark>
egg|zzz|egg: did you see our thread with alt_kia by chance
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: indeed
<whitequark>
egg|zzz|egg: better be prepared for the avalanche of lewd if you follow her
<kmath>
<whitequark> so you all hate on C++. all right. all right. tell me. does your favorite language have a concept of friendship, then? eh? thought so.
<egg|zzz|egg>
I think the first reply confused UmbralRaptor just a couple of days ago
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: btw, someone answered "ADA" to your tweet, so 1. they got the capitalization wrong, Ada isn't FORTRAN, 2. they're wrong, there's no friendship there
<whitequark>
ye
<egg|zzz|egg>
everybody can see every member within the same private part (or inside the body), but outside the package there are no friends
<bofh>
egg|zzz|egg: LOL
<whitequark>
oh so that's basically what rust does
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: Ada is outdated and clunky at times and doesn't have ownership semantics etc., but it *is* quite well thought out for its time :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: what are you LOLing at specifically
<egg|zzz|egg>
ambiguous call to LOL
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: rust doesn't do the weird asymmetric type-contains-functions thing, right?
<whitequark>
bwuh?
<egg|zzz|egg>
ah, sort of with impl
<egg|zzz|egg>
but it's not written in the middle of the actual type
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: whatever you want to call it, the thing where in C++, C#, Java, and related languages, you have member functions that you write within the type
<egg|zzz|egg>
as opposed to a record separate from the functions that operate on it
<bofh>
egg|zzz|egg: the reference to Fortran 2
<egg|zzz|egg>
C AH YES FORTRAN II
<egg|zzz|egg>
C MOCKING FORTRAN IS A RECURRING THEME HERE
<bofh>
so like, it would be fantastic if C decided to steal Fortran's aliasing rules
<egg|zzz|egg>
there's restrict?
<bofh>
now.
<bofh>
as in it finally got here like 10 years ago the earliest
<egg|zzz|egg>
yeah
<bofh>
what I'm saying is restrict should be the DEFAULT and you should have to specify if pointers MAY alias, not the other way around
<egg|zzz|egg>
yeah
<egg|zzz|egg>
I think in Ada it's erroneous to alias the arguments (and the implementation may choose to copy or reference as it wishes)
<egg|zzz|egg>
in Ada you have to explicitly declare things whose address can be taken as aliased though so that helps
* egg|zzz|egg
should probably go to sleep before he bores bofh and whitequark to death with rambling about dead languages
<bofh>
nah, carry on
<bofh>
also like I have way too many source files that are Fortran machine translated from ALGOL '68
<bofh>
(EISPACK and all that)
<egg|zzz|egg>
I've heard about ALGOL 68 several times, but never really looked closely into it
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: is there some law that given two languages from the same time the shittiest must be the one that survives?
<bofh>
you are claiming ALGOL '68 is BETTER than Fortran '66?
<bofh>
*boggle*
<whitequark>
ALGOL is pretty good isn't it?
<egg|zzz|egg>
as far as I understand, 68 in particular has a lot of good ideas to it?
<egg|zzz|egg>
I've never written a line of the thing mind you
<egg|zzz|egg>
FORTRAN NEITHER FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH
<bofh>
wait, you're an academic that does programming and never wrote a line of Fortran? dang.
<egg|zzz|egg>
I'm an academic; I do programming; the two are completely orthogonal
* UmbralRaptor
has sucessfully evaded FORTRAN. So far.
<UmbralRaptor>
(Actually, that's not a big deal. Successfully evading IDL is more important.
<UmbralRaptor>
)
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: I picked mathematics in part because I could learn about CS myself, there'd be little point in doing that; and I'm more of a pure mathematics person, so I didn't touch computers much for academia-related reasons
<bofh>
there's none of it in quantum chem/condensed matter
<bofh>
first time I saw it was in Voyager 1/2 data visualization code.
<UmbralRaptor>
hrm
<UmbralRaptor>
Legacy astro code is full of it, for...reasons.
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: but, like, ALGOL 68 has types? it even has variant records/sum types/strongly-typed unions/whatever you want to call that? a sort of consistent design philosophy with the whole expression oriented thing? you don't need to write it so it fits on a punchcard? you can't change the value of literals? it's not really hard to be better than FORTRAN 66, and algol does have a lot of nice aspects for its time
<bofh>
okay, true, I'd consider ALGOL 68 better than K&R C in a lot of ways now that I've thought about it.
<bofh>
and F66 was shite, it's only around F90 tht it became acceptable
<whitequark>
yeah variant ytpes in ALGOL singlehandedly would make it better than C
<egg|zzz|egg>
C FORTRAN IS FUN
<egg|zzz|egg>
2 = 0
<egg|zzz|egg>
aka please wrap your literals in parentheses before passing them to a subroutine
<egg|zzz|egg>
:-p
* egg|zzz|egg
should actually zzzz....
<UmbralRaptor>
;kmath Is sleep real?
<kmath>
UmbralRaptor: You may rely on it
* UmbralRaptor
was not expecting that.
<whitequark>
;kmath Am I real?
<kmath>
whitequark: Yeah
<whitequark>
... alright
<soundnfury>
;kmath Is i real?
<kmath>
soundnfury: Reply hazy try again
<soundnfury>
:p
icefire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<GreeningGalaxy>
;kmath Is alcohol?
<kmath>
GreeningGalaxy: Without a doubt
<whitequark>
Is(opropyl) alcohol
Tortoise767 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<GreeningGalaxy>
whitequark: I just did the booze for the first time. Half a bottle of hard cider. I'm... not so into it.
<GreeningGalaxy>
I'm all jittery and twitchy and I have a headache. Feels like really bad overcaffeination.
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: as a person who did a lot of different drugs: alcohol is hands down one of the worst
<whitequark>
don't worry about it, it's not you, it's just crap
<GreeningGalaxy>
I'll believe it
<GreeningGalaxy>
but I also wonder if this could be worsened by interaction with my SSRIs which sometimes (but not always, for some reason) come with a label vaguely cautioning me against having alcohol while taking them.
<GreeningGalaxy>
I'm not really even feeling like I have my inhibitions lowered either, if anything, they're higher than normal. It literally feels exactly like a caffeine overdose, just without any beneficial effects whatsoever.
<GreeningGalaxy>
although I guess raised inhibitions isn't a bad thing
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: re SSRIs and alcohol: which SSRI specifically?
<whitequark>
if I remember correctly it's basically two things:
<whitequark>
1) you're taking an antidepressant and a depressant together, good job
<GreeningGalaxy>
Escitalopram
<whitequark>
2) let me check drugbank...
<whitequark>
ah yes, escitalopram is a nonspecific CYP450 inhibitor, and alcohol is a CYP2E1 substrate
<whitequark>
soooo in this case they potentiate each other
<whitequark>
(I think)
<GreeningGalaxy>
great, good job Ellie
<whitequark>
in general, (2) is just the fact that SSRIs and alcohol are both metabolized by liver, and they compete for the same resources
<whitequark>
with variously amusing effects
<GreeningGalaxy>
swatiget for being so ignorant of biochemistry
<whitequark>
this shit is Hard and why we have doctors study a decade
<GreeningGalaxy>
what's the interaction of caffeine and Esc like? I haven't exactly had a wonderful time with caffeine lately either.
<whitequark>
mh
<GreeningGalaxy>
though tbh I had that relationship with caffeine to some extent long before I started Esc.
<whitequark>
I'm not sure if there's a noticeable interaction
<whitequark>
regarding inhibitions
<whitequark>
the "lowering of inhibitions" thing is cultural. alcohol is only considered to do so in the west
<GreeningGalaxy>
gotcha, I wondered
<whitequark>
I haven't really found it any harder to control impulses, and I deliberately got really drunk to see what's the experience like
<whitequark>
honestly I'm not really sure what drinking alcohol is good for, except maybe for preparing yourself for social events that mandate drinking alcohol
<GreeningGalaxy>
My plan of action for those events is just "I don't even care what you think of me for it; If you want me to drink, you'll have to hold me down and put a tube down my esophagus."
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: also, just in case you want to do some other drug while on SSRIs: please first ask. I can't tell you if it's safe, but I can tell you if it'll definitely kill you
<whitequark>
hah.
<GreeningGalaxy>
Will do, but it's taken me this long to even be willing to try taking more than a tiny quantity of alcohol (I've been 21 for over 2 months, and drinking before reaching the legal age is very heavily normalized around here).
<GreeningGalaxy>
what I'm saying is I have no desire to even experiment with all or most drugs so I find it highly unlikely that I will anytime soon. But yeah I'll definitely take note.
<whitequark>
eh, some of them are alright
<whitequark>
did your state legalize weed yet?
<GreeningGalaxy>
no, but I smell it everywhere and the slightest whiff makes me irrationally angry. I think it runs in the family.
<whitequark>
ha, I can't smoke it, my lungs pretend I have asthma (or at least that's how I feel, for whatever inexplicable reason)
<whitequark>
(I don't actually have asthma)
<whitequark>
but if you do a Soxhlet extraction with dry EtOH
<whitequark>
then you don't have to smoke it!
<GreeningGalaxy>
heh
<whitequark>
also, you get a totally different effect if you consume, say, about 300mg of THC at once
<whitequark>
(do note that SSRIs strongly attenuate the effects of THC, so you're unlikely to feel much if anything at all)
<GreeningGalaxy>
I'm really not excited about it if it's gonna make me angry at nothing, because that's a really hard feeling to get rid of and it isn't fun at all
<GreeningGalaxy>
that might just be the smoke and not the stuff itself, but eh, I don't really care enough to find out
<whitequark>
that seems like an unlikely effect of THC, but it's plausibly somewhere within the range of variability
<whitequark>
the smoke is kinda just disgusting though imo
<whitequark>
I get pissed off if someone in the room smokes without my consent too
<GreeningGalaxy>
yeah it smells like ass and stupidity
<whitequark>
last time I had to grab a respirator to tolerate being there
<whitequark>
(shameless plug, 3M 6000 series respirators, ABEK cartridges, use them)
<whitequark>
(maybe I should buy a 7000 series CPAP respirator, mod it so that it vaporizes the weed on inhalation and then filters it on *ex*halation, and give it as a gift to that guy)
<GreeningGalaxy>
hahaha
<GreeningGalaxy>
what's an ABEK cartridge exactly?
Majiir is now known as Snoozee
<whitequark>
acid gases, basic gases, organic vapors and particulates
<GreeningGalaxy>
so the most general-purpose ones, or what?
<whitequark>
yup
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy and whitequark
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy and whitequark a 古在 checker
<egg|zzz|egg>
did UmbralRaptor write that?
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a revolving contingent power supply
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn e_14159
* Qboid
gives e_14159 a starboard theorem
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn ferram4
* Qboid
gives ferram4 a Bussard galaxy
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn Iskierka
* Qboid
gives Iskierka a snakehead which vaguely resembles a terminal
<UmbralRaptor>
egg: I think it's correct for a test mass falling into a schwartzchild black hole?
<egg>
UmbralRaptor: in its proper time, the observer falling into the black hole takes finite time to reach the singularity though
<egg>
UmbralRaptor: sure in the time of the outside observer that takes infinite time, but then it means that in those coordinates the computer would say youu suuuuck booooooobyyyyyyyyyyyyy... until the end of time, but only a finite number of times
<UmbralRaptor>
So whether it works or not depends on if you define "time/times" in terms of multiplication or temporal features.