raptop changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
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<raptop>
;choose stab spin|something else
<kmath>
raptop: stab spin
* raptop
stabs
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<egg>
UmbralRaptop: which spin
<egg>
Stern–Gerlach knife
<UmbralRaptop>
spin of electrons in a magnetic field, and evolution of that over time. (Also some details of the energy)
<kmath>
<ProfAbelMendez> Everyone was calculating the equilibrium temperature of planets in elliptical orbits incorrectly, including us. Fr… https://t.co/3n8WQRnf54
<UmbralRaptop>
Oh, hey, the solution to this involves magic^W trig identities
<kmath>
<whitequark> @kevinriggle @russss oh of course they are. AlO or TiN coating would be ideal I think? not sure though, materials science is not my domain
<whitequark>
why five bofhs
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<egg>
whitequark: because bofh is too far away for me to poke him with a flyswatter, so I'm trying to get his attention in some other way :-p
<egg>
bofh: UmbralRaptop: wait, re. proper elements, is there any reason why the mean of the osculating period should be the actual period as defined e.g. as the mean time between nodes or something?
<kmath>
<✔Defense_gouv> 📌CP : @florence_parly, @CCastaner, et @NunezLaurent font part de leur immense émotion à la suite du décès de 2 mili… https://t.co/JwdjJDN8y5
<bofh>
gas explosion on rue de Trévise today?
<egg>
yeah apparently
<egg>
bofh: afaict fire brigade was called because it smelled like gas, then it blew up, killing two of them
<bofh>
yikes yikes yikes yikes yikes
<egg>
bofh: (note: for meaningful hysterical raisins, the fire brigade in paris is part of the army)
<kmath>
<bofh453> @DrMLHarris I'm annoyed very few things seem to correctly render ̂🌵(x), i.e. combining circumflex above + cactus emoji (cc: @FakeUnicode).
<egg>
bofh: yes but only the fire brigade of paris
<egg>
bofh: well, marseille too
<egg>
bofh: except in marseille it's the navy
<egg>
and they're a batallion rather than a brigade
<bofh>
I mean, Marseille is on the coast so
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<egg>
bofh: hm "Mean Orbital Elements Estimation for Autonomous Satellite Guidance and Orbit Control"
<egg>
Weichao Zhong and Pini Gurfil
<egg>
I wonder how Weichao Zhong is written
<egg>
(cc rqou)
<egg>
bofh: welp, I can't find their name written in CJKV ideographs, but I can find their email address
<egg>
rqou: is google translate's "Robust H2/H∞ control for intercepting satellite orbits with limited control input" accurate for the title of the above?
<egg>
控制输入受限的拦截卫星轨道鲁棒H2/H∞控制
<egg>
oh wait, there's the english title right below, derp
<egg>
Robust H-two/H-infinity orbit control for intercepting spacecraft with control input constraint
<APlayer>
A menu with prices listed as "<something> A €" and "<something else> + B €" would definitely be illegal in Germany, and I'd assume so it would be in France
<APlayer>
Can't expect your customers to sit in front of the menu with calculators
<egg>
the relevant bit is "(5) Die in den Preisverzeichnissen aufgeführten Preise müssen das Bedienungsgeld und sonstige Zuschläge einschließen.", which clearly means you can't do the US thing of not including taxes or the italian thing of not including taxes, but interpreting it as "you can't offer a sauce separately optionally" is weird, and also not how it's interpreted considering german restaurants do that
<egg>
s/the italian thing of not including taxes/the italian thing of not including service/
<APlayer>
A sauce separately optionally sounds legitimate enough, but a beverage for 3 € + 1 € if you take this one is... grey zone, at least.
<APlayer>
(As in the beers in Big Ferdinand's menu)
<egg>
fernand
<egg>
it's a bit odd, but it's hard to argue that it's misleading
<APlayer>
Fernand, yes (Whoops). I never saw such a thing in a menu, though, so I'd say that it is more than "a bit odd".
<egg>
it's fairly common where they have a lot of dishes at the same cost
<egg>
or when they have dishes that can be part of a set formula, but with a supplement
<APlayer>
Only given the big difference in "base price" and "supplementary price", and my basic understanding of French, I am able to see that 3,50 € is not the actual price of the dish
<egg>
yes, what this means is that it's a supplement
<egg>
that is, the foie gras is more expensive than the other entrées
<egg>
in particular, this applies to the menu
<egg>
you can get entrées + plat + dessert for 40 EUR
<egg>
(that's what "menu" means in french, picking and choosing from the whole thing is "carte")
<egg>
but if you pick the foie gras as the entrée, you get a supplement to the cost of the menu
<APlayer>
This is in my opinion quite misleading. If, say, it was a salad with "base price" of 3,50 €, but the extra-meaty sort of salad was "sup. 3,50 €" and I did not speak French or English, I wouldn't have understood that "sup." means something along the lines of "supplement" and wouldn't have caught that it is actually 7 €
<APlayer>
And in general that menu contains some highly confusing calculations, if it works as you said it. Frankly, I don't think I have actually ever ordered a menu of this sort at a restaurant, but I don't think I ever encountered such a pricing system either.
<egg>
if you speak sufficiently little of the language, you are going to run into the issue that you don't know whether you're ordering a main course or an appetizer anyway, since entrée means main course in the US
<egg>
but anyway, it's a thing in FR
<APlayer>
Re: "entrée means main course in the US" - O.O good to know
<egg>
APlayer: perhaps an explanation is that menus (in the french sense) are more of a thing
<APlayer>
I guess
<egg>
i.e.the expectation is that you take a set appetizer+main course+dessert, which sets your base price (in bold at the top), and then if you pick expensive choices you have a supplement on that
<APlayer>
I've been to restaurants in pretty much all of central and western Europe (oh, that service fee thing in Italy :/), including France, but rarely. And probably in less fancy ones too (I don't think I ever paid 40 € (!) for a meal), so I likely missed things
<APlayer>
I think I've seen things like "+ 2 € cover". It may not have been in France but in Italy or somewhere else entirely, though
<egg>
that's italy
<egg>
that's probably not legal in france
<egg>
it's effectively the service charge
<egg>
but it's a different thing, it's a mandatory + 2, not a "if you take that one it's + 2"
<egg>
and it does fall squarely under the thing described in (5) of the thing you cited
<APlayer>
Mandatory cover fees are somewhat sad, anyway. It defeats the cultural significance of covers.
<egg>
(Bedienungsgeld)
<APlayer>
Yeah, it's definitely not been in Germany :P
<egg>
"pane e coperto" is the generic term for that italian service charge
<egg>
"bread and cutlery"
<egg>
APlayer: looking through menus (english sense) of random restaurants in munich, they all seem to have different prices for all dishes, and no offer equivalent to a menu (french sense), so I guess that explains why the prices are structured differently
<egg>
APlayer: the Fernand thing has the same property actually
<egg>
APlayer: see, there are "formules"
<egg>
which are some price for a burger + fries or salad + drink
<egg>
which means that if you take an expensive drink, it comes as a supplement to the formule
<egg>
so you *have to* express the price like that in the drinks list
<egg>
if you said a beer is 4 and a water is 3, and then you say "burger + fries + drink" is 15, it would be 15 for a beer too, whereas if you say "a beer is a +1 supplement", the "burger + fries + drink" gets a supplement if the drink is a beer
<APlayer>
Yes, the German and Austrian thing is, "we offer this (A €), this (B €) and that (C €)", you take whatever you choose, no combinations, no menus, no additions. Occasionally you may see something like a table with small and large portions, rarely if ever a "Knödelsuppe (5 €), (mit 2 Knödeln: 7 €)", and once (once!) I saw "Kinder- und Seniorenportion: - 2 €"
<egg>
well, there is an addition in that you take several things :-p
<APlayer>
It's been ages since I was in Switzerland, so I don't quite remember how it works there
<egg>
(and sauces or extras do come as optionals as we saw)
<egg>
but indeed, menus (french sense) seem to be less of a thing
<APlayer>
egg: You don't sell every grain of rice for 0.472 * 10^(-5) € in a rice dish :P
<egg>
you don't, but this is a bit of a strawman, if not a rice man
<APlayer>
I mean, if counting grains of rice was practical in a day-to-day environment, it would be a theoretical possibility to portion the dish precisely based on the count of rice grains (assuming a grain of rice is standardized). And that would be an addition of sorts, "in that you take several [grains of rice]". But a totally impractical addition at that. As opposed to summing the prices of the dishes you order,
<APlayer>
which is the least-practical number of additions, with simple rules
<egg>
this is turning into a silly discussion
<egg>
the confusion here was around prices being expressed as supplements from a base price, and the reason for that is menus/formules
<egg>
those are a thing by which you pay less by taking some set of kinds of dishes (e.g. your choice of burger + fries + your choice of drink), but it means the variation in the price of the choices ends up being expressed as a supplement, so that it may apply to the thing itself or to the price of the menu wherein it is included
<APlayer>
I guess that's a difference of cultural habits. I am not used to the formule system at all, so I am having a hard time working with it.
<egg>
it does appear on some of the german menus I linked above, but it's less prominent, and the whole thing isn't structured around it, so it's probably less of a thing in DE indeed
<egg>
e.g. Burger mit Beilage nach Wahl, Durstlöscher / alkoholfreies Getränk / kleines Bier & Heißgeträn: Burgerpreis +5,00 €
<egg>
s/Heißgeträn/Heißgetränk/ of course
<egg>
and then below that you have "Mit Süßkartoffel-Fritten Menüpreis +1,00"
<egg>
but the carte is fully separate with individual prices for everything, not structured around being used in a menu
* egg
meows at bofh
* egg
pokes bofh with mean elements
* egg
pokes bofh with UmbralRaptop
* UmbralRaptop
does not charge bofh per rice grain.
<UmbralRaptop>
Also, the moon is very confusing
* egg
moos at the moon and UmbralRaptop
<UmbralRaptop>
Apparently it's snowing
<egg>
yay
* UmbralRaptop
guesses that Virginia can in fact have actual winter weather
* bofh
meows at egg
<egg>
bofh: have you seen this Big Fernand thing? apparently they're everywhere now