UmbralRaptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fano. We currently target 1.3.1, 1.4.x, 1.5.1, and 1.6.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: one contour for 30 deg and one for 65 deg
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: but then in addition to the contour for median elevation, contours at 1st and 3rd quartile elevations
<egg|zzz|egg> is that too many conturs
<egg|zzz|egg> s/turs/tours/
<UmbralRaptop> maybe.
<UmbralRaptop> I was confused because going by the bar, the contours break the sun angle into 3rds, not 4ths. Also, why 3 of each?
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: yeah they break the *sun angle* into 3rds
<egg|zzz|egg> but then the sun angle varies over the year at constant latitude and mean solar time, so the shading and central contour is just the median of that
<UmbralRaptop> quartile, thirds, is this some music theory stuff?
<egg|zzz|egg> but bringing in those quartiles probably just confuses stuff
<UmbralRaptop> should probably have separate charts for eg: equinox, solstices, some sort of median day…
<egg|zzz|egg> hm, that's a lot of charts
<discord-> 王​小谦同学. — MODIS is a more modern instrument than AVHRR, AVHRR was created in the 80s, which they have less number of channels, and lower resolution, AVHRR only has 1 channel for vis, and rest a re all IR channels, for MODIS, there's so many channels that you can directly get 500m true colour, and 250 RGB
<discord-> e​gg. — even MODIS is dated now, the new shiny thing is VIIRS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_Infrared_Imaging_Radiometer_Suite
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: https://i.imgur.com/ftsGbUt.png is this more readable? (still median elevation rather than elevation for a specific day)
<discord-> n​eph. — VIIRS has a massive pixel size though
<discord-> n​eph. — I really want to get my hands on the Gaofen data though
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<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: here's what it looks like for the solstices & equinoxes https://i.imgur.com/O8ARwXE.png
<discord-> e​gg. — I'm consistently surprised by the quality of French Wikipedia when it comes to Earth observation satellites, https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaofen exists only in French and Chinese
<discord-> 王​小谦同学. — 'yes
<discord-> 王​小谦同学. — The VIIRS has something called vis day night band, which is using moonlight at night to see the clouds
<discord-> 王​小谦同学. — VIIRS focus a lot on vis bands, and comparing ti MODIS, it doesn't have that many IR bands, VIIRS doesn't have a channel for water vapor images, which is 6.20
<discord-> I​thirahad Ivrar'kiim. — >VIIRS
<discord-> I​thirahad Ivrar'kiim. —
<discord-> I​thirahad Ivrar'kiim. — Goodness
<discord-> I​thirahad Ivrar'kiim. — that is very shiny lol
* discord- I​thirahad Ivrar'kiim. — so much data_
<discord-> I​thirahad Ivrar'kiim. — modern sensing tech is amazing
<UmbralRaptop> egg: yeah, that looks clearer. I think we only need one equinox, though
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: what about the median elevation (but single-contour) one?
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<discord-> 𒀯​ 𒄷 𒄈𒀭𒁇. — I think it makes sense? Though if we want to aggressively avoid glint, we should probably have a max elevation also >_>
<discord-> 王​小谦同学. — I would say, still, I use MODIS more than VIIRS
<discord-> 王​小谦同学. — The reason is very simple: MODIS has WV channel, and better IR channels
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<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — just out of curiosity, would it be hard to add some minor oblateness to the stock Kerbin in principia?
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — just enough to allow sun synchronous orbits
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<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer yeah it's easy; you need Kopernicus, and the following two config files:
<discord-> e​gg. — 1. https://gist.githubusercontent.com/eggrobin/31f6d0c246ecbe50423488f867fe7051/raw/55b814cd14b3c9fdd63119cee96dacb847e2e9ea/retrobop.cfg which does the retrobop patching (we only perform the retrobop patching on an unmodified stock system, so if you add J2, you must perform that yourself)
<discord-> e​gg. — 2. ```
<discord-> e​gg. — principia_gravity_model {
<discord-> e​gg. — body {
<discord-> e​gg. — name = Kerbin
<discord-> e​gg. — j2 = 0.002
<discord-> e​gg. — }
<discord-> e​gg. — }
<discord-> e​gg. — ```
<discord-> K​urgut. — why didn't you include it in stock principia, because of the need of Kopernicus?
<discord-> e​gg. — no the need for Kopernicus is just because we only patch an unmodified system, those who modify their systems choose how they fix it
<discord-> e​gg. — we didn't include it in stock Principia because we just did the minimum to make the Jool system not collapse
<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer The sun-synchronous inclinations are: 94°,75 for the 70 km alt. circular orbit, 95°,5393 for the 100 km one, 97°,0591 for the 150 km one
<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer if you want to add tilt, you just need to add a an `axis_declination` next to that `j2`; the `axis_declination` is 90° - obliquity, see https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Principia-configuration-files#semantics-of-the-quantities-used-for-body-rotation
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Ok. I’ll look into this, but it will be a couple of days. Will be out of the country next week
<discord-> D​amien. — ```Kerbalism 3.0: Now includes n-body physics. You're fucking welcome```
<discord-> K​urgut. — haha
<discord-> D​amien. — can you imagine the forum salt
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — it's weird to see how unstable a high mun orbit really is
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — when you're used to the stock orbits and happily go into a highly eccentric polar orbit to let the background science do it's work
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — and then you notice that your probe is going to be dust and rubble within 3 orbits if you don't do anything because kerbin is pulling on it
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — well
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<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — i guess I won't have that much trouble to deorbit debris in the future 😉
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<discord-> D​amien. — a stable moon (not mun) orbit is really hard
<discord-> D​amien. — because of mascons
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — yeah i read something about that, apparently there are just 2-3 quite narrow orbits that really are stable long term
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah
<discord-> D​amien. — the frozen orbits
<discord-> D​amien. — principia really is the best mod
<discord-> D​amien. — completely changes the game in an interesting way
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — I still have to get to terms with it. Like maneuvers, i will have to look for that checkbox egg told me about. because otherwise i'll be totally lost, not knowing the thrust vector I need to apply
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah it takes some getting used to
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — also, working with frames... djeez. the hardest step seems to be the first one: pick the right frame
<discord-> D​amien. — yup
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — good thing is transit windows should be more or less the same, right? like a transit to duna
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah pretty much
<discord-> D​amien. — I took a picture of that mun unstableness btw https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/490923202567208981/569817036834996235/screenshot118.png
<discord-> D​amien. — from a pretty circular orbit to a suicide trajectory
<discord-> D​amien. — no mascons there, that's just general unstableness
<discord-> D​amien. — the earth and minmus probably
<discord-> D​amien. — kerbin and minmus probably (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — it was a lagrange point satellite that I got bored of stationkeeping so I stuck it around the mun
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — well. no point going to collect debris 😃
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — btw, rendezvous? how?
<discord-> K​urgut. — you've a frame for this
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah
<discord-> K​urgut. — LVLH
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ah, the pillow frame from yesterday night
<discord-> K​urgut. — you can select as the other, when you target a vessel
<discord-> K​urgut. — yes^
<discord-> D​amien. — target it, match inclination using the an/dn and then adjust your orbit in TVLH or whatever it's called
<discord-> K​urgut. — you can select as the others, when you target a vessel (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — each loop is one orbit
<discord-> D​amien. — push the intercept market of a loop onto your target
<discord-> D​amien. — you'll meet in that many orbits
<discord-> D​amien. — push the intercept marker of a loop onto your target (edited)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ok. i'll cross that bridge when i get there 😃
<discord-> D​amien. — it's a bit much the first time you do it but it's actualyl easier than stock
<discord-> D​amien. — it's a bit much the first time you do it but it's actually easier than stock (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — @Sir Mortimer stick a satellite in a polar orbit of duna or eve
<discord-> D​amien. — it's super messy once the moon's start getting involved
<discord-> D​amien. — it's super messy once the moons start getting involved (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — I had a satellite doing new kerbalism science around duna, and I was losing connection to kerbin
<discord-> D​amien. — I had to grab what I could, then boost into an orbit that was stable enough to survive until I got comms again
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — yeah. ike is a problem.
<discord-> D​amien. — by the time I got control again the trajectory was insane
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — btw what antenna do you use at duna?
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — DSN level 3 i guess
<discord-> K​urgut. — it's your vid? ^^
<discord-> D​amien. — I think I used a pair or DTS-M1s
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah l3
<discord-> K​urgut. — (about duna)
<discord-> D​amien. — it was actually l2 but I lost comms en route so I upgraded
<discord-> D​amien. — @Kurgut I didn't film it I don't think, but i did take a pic
<discord-> D​amien. — not sure where I posted it though
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @Damien do you get comms at max kerbin-duna distance at all?
<discord-> D​amien. — no
<discord-> D​amien. — but I only did the one mission
<discord-> D​amien. — maybe with more antenna power
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — do you guys know of any good kOS script I can use? Or a collection of scripts? I'm tired of my own buggy stuff
<discord-> D​amien. — I knew I had a pic somewhere
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<discord-> D​amien. — standard elliptical polar orbit that got really fucky because of ike
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<discord-> D​amien. — and a square orbit
<discord-> D​amien. — just so you know what you're getting yourself into
<discord-> K​urgut. — I like how how "square" looks in KCI
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah
<discord-> K​urgut. — chilling with L2/L1
<discord-> D​amien. — I've got loads of pics of me doing it but they're at home
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah Ike is massive
<discord-> e​gg. — so much so in fact that its L4 and L5 points are unstable
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<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer yeah i read something about that, apparently there are just 2-3 quite narrow orbits that really are stable long term
<discord-> e​gg. — there are actually whole families of those, see https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/1083545992899846144 and other works by Lara
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @Damien wow that's wobbly
<discord-> D​amien. — yep
<discord-> D​amien. — plan your missions well because principia has no time for your fantasies about stable orbits
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @egg that's one smart cat.
<discord-> D​amien. — that's actually egg
<discord-> D​amien. — he is the cat
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — lol
<discord-> e​gg. — @𒀯 𒄷 𒄈𒀭𒁇 both the threshold for glint and that for minimal sun elevation are very fuzzy, so min/max contours aren't necessarily useful
<UmbralRaptop> egg does meow a lot
<UmbralRaptop> also, blarg with that glint
<UmbralRaptop> why do waves have to eggsist?
<egg|work|egg> UmbralRaptop: the problem is that considering glint to be simply a function of solar elevation (as I was doing with this graph) is very pessimistic: with MODIS you have 55 deg half-aperture, so you'd estimate a risk of glint as soon as the sun is above 43 deg or so, and definitely above 55 deg; but really you're only scanning cross-track, so if the
<egg|work|egg> sun is 55 deg to the south you're fine
<UmbralRaptop> ah
<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer this might point to glint modeling requiring something fancier than a lower limit on the sun-earth-satellite angle
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] interruptinuse starred Principia - https://git.io/fjBZ6
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<discord-> K​obymaru. — I sure can't 😉
<discord-> K​obymaru. — Can you see what's going on around the periapsis?
<discord-> K​obymaru. — I sure can't
<discord-> K​obymaru. — That's why I like to turn history off 😉
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I'm trying to reproduce cassini but warping to 1997 is difficult enough on its own
<discord-> S​tandecco. — wait, how is the calendar holding?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — wait, how is the calendar? (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — @Standecco what do you mean
<discord-> S​tandecco. — is the date right?
<discord-> e​gg. — if you are using RSSTimeFormatter, yes
<discord-> S​tandecco. — but like, leap years and stuff
<discord-> e​gg. — RSSTimeFormatter uses the Gregorian calendar
<discord-> e​gg. — it even has an option to use whichever date format you prefer
<discord-> S​tandecco. — so no problem then, nice
<discord-> e​gg. — so if you want you can change a config file so it writes the date as 1997年10月15日
<discord-> e​gg. — @Standecco you can also do some config file stuff to change the date at which the game starts
<discord-> S​tandecco. — no need for chinese, but thanks
<discord-> S​tandecco. — how do I change the date?
<discord-> e​gg. — so you need to do two things
<discord-> e​gg. — change the calendar so that it starts later, and tell Principia that things start later
<discord-> e​gg. — @Standecco something like `@principia_initial_state { @game_epoch = 1997-10-15T08:43:00 }` for Principia, and `RSSTimeFormatter { epoch = 1997-10-15T08:43:00 }` for RSSTimeFormatter
<discord-> e​gg. — starting a new game will take a little while (because Principia needs to integrate the system from 1951 to 1997), but at least the game is not in the way (and there are no vessels) so it's significantly faster
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I'll definitely do that for future missions
* UmbralRaptop imagines setting the date to 2450000日
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<discord-> e​gg. — This IRC bridge seems to be weird when it comes to encoding, it works some of the time but not always O_o
<egg> Ꙩ_ꙩ
<discord-> D​amien. — Nice. I didn't know starting at a different date was an option
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* UmbralRaptop ꙮ_ꙮ
<discord-> K​urgut. — oh, me too, nice👌
<egg> UmbralRaptop: hm, discord took your _ as an italicization so the eyes look very weird
<egg> discord is weird
<UmbralRaptop> o_O
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Goddamnit I’ve got a cold.
<egg|zzz|egg> ow
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I live in a constant cold at this point
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<egg|zzz|egg> > "In reality, because there are waves on surfaces, a lot of ocean remote sensing stays pretty far away from the specular vector - something like more than 20 or 30 degrees"
<egg|zzz|egg> 30 degrees?!
<egg|zzz|egg> that's a lot
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<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: mofh: to be fair considering the imaging where there's *any* glint at all across the swath as bad is probably a bad idea, there's quite a large swath
<egg|zzz|egg> mofh: UmbralRaptop: glint bone https://i.imgur.com/AEIkNE8.png