UmbralRaptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fano. We currently target 1.3.1, 1.4.x, 1.5.1, and 1.6.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<discord->
王小谦同学. — @egg Thanks, the reason why I created this is because that Principia was just introduced to Chinese KSP players, and there aren't really any guides, which makes a lot of people having a difficult time with Principia, for some weird reasons, I decided to do something like this.
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc>
[Principia] fictionles commented on issue #2184: Delete entire flight plan - https://git.io/fj0Ep
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco nice, what's the Δv?
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco nice, what's the ∆𝑣? (edited)
<discord->
Damien. — @Standecco nice. I reckon if you'd have started your burn a bit later (moving your ap closer to the mun or in front of it) you'd have captured on the 3rd loop
<discord->
Standecco. — @egg ~830
<discord->
Standecco. — @Damien you sure?
<discord->
Standecco. — I of course failed to execute it so now I'm back from start
<discord->
Standecco. — I like how specific he was
<discord->
Standecco. — I like how specific he is (edited)
<UmbralRaptor>
a few eggstra furlongs per fortnight
<discord->
Damien. — then play with the burn point to get a good capture
<discord->
Damien. — you should be able to eyeball it and have a bit of wiggle room
<UmbralRaptor>
spoils only require a few slugs of propellant
<discord->
Standecco. — oh, I never understood one thing: why are there 2 different frame of reference selectors for trajectory and flight planner?
<discord->
egg. — ah
<discord->
egg. — there's one selector per manoeuvre
<discord->
Standecco. — and why does the trajectory frame influence the flight plan frame?
<UmbralRaptor>
s/spoils/should
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco so, you give your ∆𝑣 as a vector in the Frenet frame of your trajectory
<discord->
egg. — a component tangent, a component normal, a component binormal
<discord->
Damien. — while we're on the subject of fucky reference frames, when aligning my molniya orbit I had to view it in ECEF but do my burns by using ECI pro/retro
<discord->
egg. — where e.g. tangent means "along the trajectory"
<discord->
Damien. — (inb4 egg tells me off for using pro/retro)
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco but which way is "along the trajectory"?
<discord->
egg. — it depends which frame you draw the trajectory in (see also @Damien's example)
<discord->
egg. — so the manoeuvre frame determines which way is forward for the purposes of the burn
<discord->
egg. — but you can *look* at the flight plan in another frame
<discord->
egg. — that's the plotting frame
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco does that make some sense
<discord->
Standecco. — it makes perfect sense
<discord->
Standecco. — in stock the frame of reference is absolute, right?
<discord->
Damien. — @Standecco in my example I needed to view my trajectory relative to earth's surface, but the burns I needed to do to tweak it were in earth centered inertial
<discord->
Damien. — if I'd used the navball markers in ECEF mode I'd have fucked it up
<discord->
Standecco. — it was much easier this time
<discord->
Damien. — 🔥 💯
<discord->
Damien. — @Standecco now do you see the AN at the top left of your pic?
<discord->
Damien. — make a maneuver there and play with it
<discord->
Damien. — can't remember the direction but that's where squares are born
<discord->
Standecco. — top left left or top top left?
<discord->
Standecco. — top left left or top left top? (edited)
<discord->
egg. — > @Standecco in stock the frame of reference is absolute, right?
<discord->
egg. — Not sure what absolute means. In stock the reference frame is always <something> centred inertial
<discord->
egg. — then depending on the chosen patched conic mode, it's either all in the same <something>, or each in the <something> of the body for that conic
<discord->
Damien. — @Standecco 9 o'clock on your chaotic mun orbit
<discord->
Damien. — in front of it
<discord->
Standecco. — well, if the <something> is the same for all bodies, that's absolute
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco I don't think you need to make up the word absolute here, it confuses things. for the example trajectory in that forum post: mode 3 is all KCI, mode 0 is KCI for one arc, then MCI, then back to ECI, mode 1 (default) and 2 are a bit odd, mode 4 is insane.
<discord->
egg. — mind you that's a 7-year-old forum post, maybe the default has changed or something
<discord->
Standecco. — might mode 4 be the one where the reference is the same for everything?
<discord->
egg. — no
<discord->
egg. — that's mode 0
<discord->
egg. — mode 4 is just insanity
<discord->
Kurgut. — @Standecco for square, Pe is about 2400 km the moon. one of the predicted revolution pass at the right place btw in your pic
<discord->
Damien. — I've no idea what you're talking about with modes
<discord->
egg. — that's mode 3 (edited)
<discord->
Kurgut. — @Standecco for square, Pe is about 2400 km behind the moon. one of the predicted revolution pass at the right place btw in your pic (edited)
<discord->
Kurgut. — @Standecco for square, Pe is about 2400 km behind the mun. one of the predicted revolution pass at the right place btw in your pic (edited)
<discord->
Damien. — oh conics
<discord->
Damien. — I skipped that part of the convo
<discord->
Kurgut. — @Standecco for square, Pe is about 2400 km behind the mun. one of the predicted revolution passes at the right place btw in your pic (edited)
<discord->
Standecco. — but mode 4 must be relative to something
<discord->
Standecco. — I still have to circularize after this capture though, right? I can't get it stable enough
<discord->
Damien. — yeah you do
<discord->
Damien. — but you can pick the point that works best for you
<discord->
Standecco. — I also get an extremely flickering trajectory if I go over 1.64e4 steps, even with min tolerance
<discord->
Damien. — welcome to principia
<discord->
Damien. — where the frames make no sense and floating point errors turn it into a disco
<discord->
Kurgut. — maybe one your future pass jiggles with WTB and can't decide to escape or capture you
<discord->
Damien. — apart from the north-south drift but can't help that
<discord->
Damien. — the moon is a dick
<discord->
DRVeyl. — "Well I had some at 3000km (not LEO but still low). They were evenly spaced out and now they're all on one side" -- and their periods were matched? They can still drift relative to one another, but I don't think drifting into a clump is a long-term result?
<discord->
Damien. — sounds like bad periods tbh
<discord->
Damien. — should have bought them some ice cream and a hot water bottle
<discord->
Kobymaru. — @DRVeyl
<discord->
Kobymaru. — > and their periods were matched?
<discord->
Kobymaru. —
<discord->
Kobymaru. — Yes, I matched them down to half a second. Maybe drifting into a clump isn't a long-term result, but de-syncing them is
<discord->
Kobymaru. — which will lead to clumps at one point or the other
<discord->
Kobymaru. — @Damien so there *are* magical latitudes? 105°W and 15°W?
<discord->
Damien. — yes
<discord->
Kobymaru. — OK, that's something. Now the question is how to cover the rest of the earth 😉
<discord->
Damien. — you could put satellites at the major axis too
<discord->
Damien. — not completely stable but better than offset
<discord->
Damien. — or just have the two and then some 45° inclined ones zipping about
<discord->
Damien. — go nuts
<_whitenotifier-5dfc>
[Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2185: Make Warp to Maneuver Node lead time tunable - https://git.io/fj0qg
<discord->
Kobymaru. — Yes but I'm lazy and don't want to keep launching them or do stationkeeping 😅
<discord->
Damien. — just don't have commsats, fuck it
<discord->
Damien. — DSN is all you need
<discord->
Damien. — maybe stick a molniya or three
<discord->
Damien. — that's it
<discord->
Kobymaru. — It's about the launches, it annoys me to not have connection if I do burns somewhere
<discord->
Kobymaru. — but yes, maybe some molniyas are the solution
<discord->
Damien. — I love how my molniya's turned out
<discord->
Damien. — looking forward to putting something like a radar altimeter in that orbit in Rp-1
<discord->
Damien. — always has solar power
<discord->
Damien. — or an orbital telemetry experiment
<discord->
Damien. — something high power long duration
<discord->
siimav. — I'm probably a complete heretic here but what if principia allowed disabling n-body forces on select probes so that only the gravitational effects from parent body would affect it. This would solve all stationkeeping issues for me.
<discord->
Damien. — I imagine that's a can of worms you don't want to open
<discord->
siimav. — I'm probably a complete heretic here but what if principia allowed disabling n-body forces and perturbations on select probes so that only the gravitational effects from parent body would affect it. This would solve all stationkeeping issues for me. (edited)
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco well, 1.7 was implemented mostly by completely ignoring the new features, so that made it easy
<discord->
egg. — which means that the bottom-left elements display will show osculating garbage
<discord->
Standecco. — that's fine by me
<discord->
Damien. — egg for president
<discord->
Damien. — ```The nodes of a trajectory with respect to the equator of the closest celestial are now displayed when the trajectory is "sufficiently close" to that celestial; this helps adjusting orbits with respect to the equator and addresses a longstanding feature request (#1841).```
<discord->
Standecco. — just have to wait until you get those ephemeris working
<discord->
egg. — ah you mean the orbit analysis stuff
<discord->
egg. — this is tricky
<discord->
Damien. — btw @egg how can you not provide early access binaries for your favourite principia shitposters
<discord->
Kurgut. — 😛
<discord->
egg. — sure, if you can make the orbit of the moon shorter
<discord->
Damien. — ok brb
<discord->
Damien. — 3rd June. Just after the weekend when we're back in work
<discord->
Damien. — I mean come on, that's just cruel
<discord->
egg. — generally when it's in the morning we do it the day before
<discord->
egg. — because I'm not going to get up to forumpoast at 10 in the morning
<discord->
Damien. — surely you need testers right? 😄
<discord->
egg. — well, it's 10 UT1
<discord->
Damien. — what if there's a really terrible bug
<discord->
Damien. — we'd be doing you a favour
<discord->
Kurgut. — ^
<discord->
egg. — at this point unless it's crash-on-new-game (which I would have caught) it waits for the next lunation
<discord->
Damien. — this bug could in theory format your hdd
<discord->
egg. — 10 UT1 is about noon here, so I could technically release monday morning but pretty sure I'll do it in the weekend
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<discord->
Kobymaru. — I mean there are compilation instructions for the *very* dedicated testers 😉
<discord->
Kobymaru. — > which means that the bottom-left elements display will show osculating garbage
<discord->
Kobymaru. —
<discord->
Kobymaru. — Same garbage as MechJeb? Or more Garbag-y?
<egg|z|egg>
probably same
<discord->
Kobymaru. — that's still somewhat useful
<discord->
Kobymaru. — although I do wish it would show principias values of course
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<discord->
Sir Mortimer. — Sigh
<discord->
Sir Mortimer. — Sooo many things happening
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<UmbralRaptor>
gregrox: please don't die (or get permanent pain)
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<discord->
egg. — > with a small algebraic operation one could even define an orbital period
<discord->
egg. — it will be nonsense for small eccentricities
<_whitenotifier-5dfc>
[Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2187: Use the new flight plan API in the C# code - https://git.io/fj0P0
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<discord->
sanjosharks39. — That changelog seems AWESOME for next release 🙂
<discord->
sanjosharks39. — I'm out of the loop @egg but any way I can help test prior to release?
<discord->
sanjosharks39. — I'll have a few hours to throw at it in a little while
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<discord->
egg. — @Damien @Kurgut @Standecco so I suppose you're all familiar with orbits having four apsides (two periapsides and two apoapsides) per revolution when they get very circular; have you encountered orbits with four nodes per revolution when they get very equatorial?