05:43 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — BTW we will have our own implementation of a UI framework of sorts that isn’t based on KSPs stuff

05:45 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Got poured a lot of hours into that. Maybe something to steal, you said something about doing a new UI framework for Principia

06:42 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2353: Fix gross errors found by comparison with Mathematica integration - https://git.io/JeC1B

08:50 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — I've been trying to figure out how to plan complex trajectories. I thought ksptot would work but then realized that it wouldn't simulate n body mechanics for planets, even while using n body coasts for vessels.

08:50 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Has anybody got a solution?

08:50 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — I've been thinking of trying GMAT for this purpose, has anyone tried that?

08:53 <discord-> D​amien. — I tried it, but it's super complex

08:53 <discord-> D​amien. — fun to have a play around with but I wasn't able to commit the time to it to see if it could be in any way useful for RSS

10:23 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — I usually use ksptot for trajectory planning in stock ksp, I guess I'll have to revert to stock physics for RO as well

10:23 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Otherwise I'm not going to the outer planets

10:29 <discord-> D​amien. — RL launch windows tend to work with principia

10:30 <discord-> D​amien. — I've played around with RSS/Principia/SMURFF to practice things like gravity assists

10:30 <discord-> D​amien. — not very successfully because I'm terrible at assists but it does work

10:31 <discord-> D​amien. — and KSPTOT will get you close enough to fine tune in game

10:31 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — I've heard that ksptot doesn't work with principia due to tilts?

10:31 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/1918

10:31 <discord-> D​amien. — it's not 100% precise but I know people have used it with good results

10:32 <discord-> D​amien. — lol that's my bug report

10:32 <discord-> D​amien. — I forgot I made that

10:32 <discord-> D​amien. — but yeah people on here have used it as a guide to planning missions in game

10:33 <discord-> D​amien. — whether outer planet trajectories have been done though I don't know

10:34 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Oh cool

10:34 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Any idea how to set ksptot up to work with principia?

10:38 <discord-> D​amien. — exactly as described in the forum post linked in the bug report I imagine. There's no fix for the tilting thing so if that messes you up then you're screwed

10:38 <discord-> D​amien. — but if it doesn't then great

10:38 <discord-> D​amien. — but to be honest this is about the limit of my understanding of KSPTOT and principia's interaction

10:38 <discord-> D​amien. — I know people have used it but to what extent and with what success I can't say

10:39 <discord-> D​amien. — I just know some people have

10:39 <discord-> D​amien. — do a search on here for 'ksptot' and see if anything useful comes up

10:40 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Thanks

10:43 <discord-> D​amien. — also, if you have any success let us know 🙂

10:45 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Will do!

11:37 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] azumafuji starred Principia - https://git.io/JeC9x

11:40 <discord-> E​strelaGaliza. — @Vee there are many things to consider. Axial tilt is probably the first one. You need to know if you create a ksptot bodies file from a vessel in Earth SOI the universe is going to be tilted. But if you create the body file from a vessel orbiting sun the inclination will be fine.

11:40 <discord-> E​strelaGaliza. —

11:40 <discord-> E​strelaGaliza. — It doesnt means you cannot use it for earth SOI, but while your vessel is at earth SOI you need a bodies file, and when orbiting sun you need another different "bodies" file.

11:41 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Oh that sounds annoying

11:41 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — Is this problem also present in ksptot with patched conics?

11:42 <discord-> E​strelaGaliza. — Never played patched conics xD

11:42 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — ah rip

11:42 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — so how do you plan interplanetary trajectories? Especially stuff that uses gravity assists?

11:43 <discord-> s​iimav. — With patched conics, KSPTOT can generate the bodies file just fine.

11:45 <discord-> E​strelaGaliza. — I tried to plan a voyager mission a year ago. The problem, as you said, is that even with n-body coast, planets will be at wrong possitions. But the ksptot calculations worked for me as starting point, then i used principia planner. Historical windows helps.

11:45 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — ah gotcha

11:46 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — I might give up on Principia then, unfortunately

11:46 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — I'd love to use it but I need tools to be able to work with KSP >.>

11:48 <discord-> D​amien. — if you're playing an RP-1 game then it'll take you forever to get to the point it matters anyway

11:49 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — yeah but I usually simultaneously have stuff doing sandbox as well

11:50 <discord-> D​amien. — fair enough

11:50 <discord-> s​iimav. — Sure, but with Principia it's `forever + 5`

11:50 <discord-> D​amien. — ^

11:50 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — idgi <.<

11:51 <discord-> D​amien. — Stock progression x0.5 (RSS) x0.5 (RO) x0.5 (RP-1) x0.5 (Principia)

11:52 <discord-> D​amien. — we'll be living in space before most full masochism install users get to deep space interplanetary missions

11:53 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — and I salute those players

11:53 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — o7

11:53 <discord-> D​amien. — especially considering most of us also restart careers constantly because reasons

11:53 <discord-> V​ee Delta Vee. — for me it's usually discovering a shiny new mod

11:53 <discord-> D​amien. — forever in the space race 😦

12:17 <discord-> K​enira. — `we'll be living in space before most full masochism install users get to deep space interplanetary missions`

12:17 <discord-> K​enira. — challenge accepted

12:19 <discord-> s​iimav. — The *living in space* challenge?

12:19 <discord-> D​amien. — 😄

12:19 <discord-> D​amien. — that's more realistic

12:20 <discord-> E​strelaGaliza. — The prize its getting a job at elon musk company

12:25 <discord-> K​enira. — i'm gonna do a crewed mission to Saturn and no one can stop me (except the kraken)

12:27 <discord-> D​amien. — the laws of nature and ksp will prevent you

12:37 <discord-> K​enira. — why laws of nature?

12:40 <discord-> D​amien. — because something so insane and impossible will break the laws of the universe

12:40 <discord-> D​amien. — you'll be hit by an asteroid or something before the universe will let you get to late game in RSSRORP1

12:41 <discord-> A​cer_Saccharum. — Then how did Spraymon do it?

12:42 <discord-> K​enira. — it's not *that* absurd

12:43 <discord-> K​enira. — i mean it's already 1976 for me now and still feeling like i'm just getting started

12:43 <discord-> K​enira. — and you don't need something super huge either

12:47 <discord-> K​enira. — just gotta take some nuclear or electric propulsion, do a faster than hohmann transfer to reduce supplies needed. are there even any greenhouse mods right now to produce food for TACLS? but if not taking all of it with you is doable too. construct the ship in orbit in several launches and refuel it there.

12:47 <discord-> K​enira. — and yeah sure it won't be easy but at the same it's just not so far out it's impossible by any means

12:58 <discord-> s​iimav. — There's also the Deraney-Paplaczyk law which states that a new career must be started right after setting foot on the Moon.

12:58 <discord-> K​enira. — i'm above that law 😏

12:59 <discord-> s​iimav. — Personally I would change the law to require restarts right after FO but oh well 🤷

12:59 <discord-> D​amien. — @siimav more like right before

12:59 <discord-> D​amien. — I've still never landed kerbals on the moon

12:59 <discord-> E​strelaGaliza. — Really?

12:59 <discord-> D​amien. — yeah

12:59 <discord-> K​enira. — you should try to stick with it until that point, it's great

13:00 <discord-> K​enira. — first moon landing in RO is still my favourite gaming moment of all time

13:00 <discord-> D​amien. — the problem with ultra masochism ksp is that burnout is real and I tend to restart career after a long break

13:00 <discord-> D​amien. — which causes burnout

13:00 <discord-> D​amien. — rinse/repeat

13:00 <discord-> K​enira. — yeah i know that cycle

13:01 <discord-> K​enira. — with KSP i solve that issue by binge playing it for weeks at a time so i get there relatively quickly

13:01 <discord-> K​enira. — if i were to stop i wouldn't wanna continue it either

13:01 <discord-> D​amien. — some of the most fun I had recently was loading up a RSS/SMURFF/Principia and just playing with orbits for practice

13:01 <discord-> D​amien. — some of the most fun I had recently was loading up a RSS/SMURFF/Principia install and just playing with orbits for practice (edited)

13:01 <discord-> D​amien. — molniya, geosync, sunsync etc etc

13:01 <discord-> D​amien. — and some gravity assists

13:02 <discord-> s​iimav. — I'm going to grab my pitchfork, heretic!

13:03 <discord-> D​amien. — come at me

13:03 <discord-> S​umguy. — the 1955 contract is pretty good at minimizing burnout from SRs

13:03 <discord-> D​amien. — oh yeah it's definitely better now than it used to be

13:04 <discord-> S​umguy. — anyway, wrong channel

13:04 <discord-> D​amien. — principia is the shitposting channel so it's fine

13:04 <discord-> D​amien. — egg's the worst one for it

13:34 <discord-> S​pace Dwarf. — 1955 contract?

13:44 <discord-> S​umguy. — it's a RP-1 version with a contract that gives you all science up to 1955, some extra science, and starting money. It lets you skip the sounding rocket stage entirely. You give up all Earth atmospheric science, though.

13:45 <discord-> S​umguy. — it's a RP-1 version with a contract that gives you all science up to 1955, some extra science, and starting money after you reach 1955. It lets you skip the sounding rocket stage entirely. You give up all Earth atmospheric science, though. (edited)

13:45 <discord-> S​umguy. — So you just warp 4 years and start with heavy SRs or FO.

13:51 <discord-> D​amien. — nice

13:57 <discord-> S​umguy. — yeah, but I'm loathe to give up all the science I could have collected

16:07 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2353: Fix gross errors found by comparison with Mathematica integration - https://git.io/JeC1B

17:17 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

17:17 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3908/

17:55 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3908/

18:31 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2353: Fix gross errors found by comparison with Mathematica integration - https://git.io/JeC1B

18:31 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/JeCxX

18:31 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] pleroy 46f1667 - Fix gross errors by comparison with Mathematica integration.

18:31 <_whitenotifier-cd19> [Principia] pleroy 800e892 - Merge pull request #2353 from pleroy/ArnoldTests Fix gross errors found by comparison with Mathematica integration