#principia on 2019-12-07 — irc logs at esper.irclog.whitequark.org

2019-09-29 03:22 UmbralRaptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is 🐇. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.x. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…

01:02 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Wooh

01:02 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Getting better at eyeballing Moon launches from the cape

01:03 <discord-> Damien. — polar?

01:03 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Nope

01:03 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Standard East-West

01:03 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — I can do polar just fine

01:04 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — But my rocket didnt have enough deltav for a polar launch, so I just guessed where my AN/DN to the Moon would face when I launched and just figured out the best launch window in sims

01:04 <discord-> Damien. — nice

01:05 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Yeah, I probably could have optimized even more, transfer is 4 days instead of 3 but thats fine

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01:33 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] dxdy-name starred Principia - https://git.io/Jeyow

02:56 <discord-> lpg. — any rule of thumb to go by, or pure eyeball?

02:56 <discord-> lpg. — I _think_ I have a method that works, but I haven't had occasion to actually put it to the test

02:58 <discord-> egg. — Okay the camera following the reference frame is fun

02:59 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — ECEF just got a lot more exciting then

03:01 <discord-> egg. — it's a bit unsettling to have the stars spinning around at high timewarp but it's probably less annoying than following the trajectories

03:03 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — I assume you only make the camera follow the rotation of the frame, and not its position or velocity, right?

03:04 <discord-> egg. — yeah, only the rotation

03:04 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — and that takes care of the *tilted ecliptic* in SCI I presume

03:05 <discord-> egg. — well, SCI will be oriented on the equator of the sun which is not ideal

03:05 <discord-> egg. — but ECSA will use the ecliptic

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03:05 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — of course I forgot the sun's axial tilt

03:07 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — I'd like to preemptively thank you for adding that feature, it'll totally resolve the annoyingly *tilted* ecliptic

03:07 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — I'll admit that has bugged me for quite a long time

03:08 <discord-> egg. — well, it will still be tilted by default (since the default tracking station frame is ECI)

03:09 <discord-> egg. — but yeah, it's silly to have it tilted when you're looking at interplanetary work

03:09 <discord-> egg. — or even going to the Moon

03:09 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — exactly, north up is great for flights around the earth, but to other bodies it's a real pain

03:11 <discord-> egg. — The orientation of the Herschel frames may lead to amusing confusion obviously

03:13 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — VCI is going to be a real confuser alright

03:14 <discord-> egg. — oh yeah

03:14 <discord-> egg. — right, I forgot that one

03:14 <discord-> egg. — yeah

03:14 <discord-> egg. — toss up between that one and UCI I think

03:15 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — well UCI will be more immediately obvious

03:15 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — the various Triton centered frames will also be funky

03:16 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — VCI is going to be a real confuser alright

03:16 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — 🙃 (edited)

03:16 <discord-> egg. — actually I think VCI is fine

03:17 <discord-> egg. — the IAU uses planet conventions for it, so the orientation is given by North rather than positive rotation

03:19 <discord-> egg. — might make sense to roll the camera over the course of a fraction of a second to make the change of horizontal understadable, instead of insta-tilting it on frame change

03:20 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — that might have dizzying consequences

03:20 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — but you do raise a good point

03:28 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — @lpg I just eyeball it in sims, its easier to eyeball polar launches though'

03:38 <discord-> egg. — how is it 4:38 already

03:40 <discord-> egg. — okay I definitely need to make sure that the camera goes through less than half a turn if it does this roll thing

03:40 <discord-> egg. — because if it goes through 354 degrees it looks very silly

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04:26 <discord-> egg. — hm I broke my KSP install somehow? KSP no longer starts

04:27 <discord-> egg. — perhaps this is a sign that I should sleep

04:34 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — not a bad idea being that it's nearly 6am wherever you are

04:35 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — yes is nearly always the answer to "should I be going to sleep now?"

04:38 <discord-> egg. — huh, my Kerbalism was breaking KSP somehow

04:38 <discord-> egg. — very mysterious

04:40 <discord-> lpg. — @RurouniDonut polar I can eyeball no problem; due-east so far I've been mistaken every time I thought I'd figured it out (next time will be different)

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04:45 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Why will next time be diff?

04:47 <discord-> lpg. — because I say so

04:50 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Eyy

04:50 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — That's the attitude

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05:52 <discord-> bofh453. — rofl

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11:19 <discord-> egg. — Okay got camera roll working

11:20 <discord-> egg. — @Sir Mortimer somehow Kerbalism makes my game crash silently before it even shows the loading screen

11:20 <discord-> Damien. — @egg make one that makes the camera in the map locked to the orientation of the craft

11:20 <discord-> egg. — (it used to work, not sure what happened)

11:20 <discord-> Damien. — So if spin stabilised it's just rolling at 120rpm

11:21 <discord-> egg. — @Damien that will only be possible once we do rotation

11:21 <discord-> Damien. — High priority comedy feature

11:22 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — that is weird. you broke it 😦

11:22 <discord-> egg. — yeah

11:22 <discord-> egg. — it only starts if I remove the Kerbalism folder, if I put it back it goes back to brokenness

11:23 <discord-> egg. — tried replacing all the stock files to see if they got corrupted, that's not it

11:23 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — no hint in the log, i presume?

11:27 <discord-> egg. — @Sir Mortimer it stops in the middle of kerbalism stuff, saying nothing

11:27 <discord-> egg. — let me retry it and give you the log end

11:36 <discord-> egg. — @Sir Mortimer KSP.log ends with:

11:36 <discord-> egg. — > [LOG 12:33:34.970] [Kerbalism] Features.Detect - Radiation: True

11:36 <discord-> egg. — > [LOG 12:33:34.970] [Kerbalism] Features.Detect - Shielding: True

11:36 <discord-> egg. — > [LOG 12:33:34.970] [Kerbalism] Features.Detect - LivingSpace: True

11:36 <discord-> egg. — > [LOG 12:33:34.970] [Kerbalism] Features.Detect - Comfort: True

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — ```

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — // log features

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("features:");

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Reliability: " + Reliability);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Deploy: " + Deploy);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Science: " + Science);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- SpaceWeather: " + SpaceWeather);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Automation: " + Automation);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Radiation: " + Radiation);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Shielding: " + Shielding);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- LivingSpace: " + LivingSpace);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Comfort: " + Comfort);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Poisoning: " + Poisoning);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Pressure: " + Pressure);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Habitat: " + Habitat);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Lib.Log("- Supplies: " + Supplies);

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — ```

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — 😕

11:38 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — what configuration are you using?

11:38 <discord-> egg. — > *Über dieser Fuge, wo der Name B A C H im Contrasubject angebracht worden, ist der Verfasser gestorben.*

11:38 <bees> conclusion: egg's KSP instance is poisoned

11:39 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — @egg you do have a GameData/KerbalismConfig folder, right?

11:39 <discord-> egg. — yeah

11:39 <discord-> egg. — @Sir Mortimer does Lib.Log flush though

11:40 <discord-> egg. — maybe it doesn't actually crash there

11:40 <discord-> egg. — but the log isn't flushed?

11:40 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — no it doesn't

11:40 <discord-> egg. — ah

11:40 <discord-> egg. — so it's probably not the word "poisoning" causing it to crash then

11:40 <discord-> egg. — @Sir Mortimer unfortunately I can't see any crash folder with a dump, are they no longer a thing?

11:41 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — 🤷‍♂️

11:41 <discord-> egg. — KSP works in mysterious ways

11:42 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — what Kerbalism does next is injecting stuff into ModuleManager

11:42 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — did you perhaps replace MM with something really old?

11:42 <discord-> egg. — nah, there was no difference from one start of KSP to the next except Alt+F4 and replacing Principia

11:42 <discord-> egg. — this is so weird

11:43 <discord-> egg. — (note: removing the Principia C# DLL does not help)

11:43 <discord-> egg. — it feels like some data file got corrupted somewhere

11:44 <discord-> egg. — but I'm unsure how something would get corrupted that is processed so early that I don't even get to the loading screen

11:44 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — file corruption seems likely. did you try replacing the kerbalism mod content with the downloaded version?

11:46 <discord-> egg. — Kerbalism and its config, yes

11:47 <discord-> egg. — not contracts now that I think of it

11:47 <discord-> egg. — will do that now

11:48 <discord-> egg. — still broken

11:49 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — whats happening there is that kerbalism looks into your configs, pokes for certain conditions in that config and then determines which of the features need to be enabled. F.i. it will turn on FeaturePoisoning if you have anything in your config that is called "poisoning". It then adds a string to a list that is later fetched by ModuleManager when that loads

11:49 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — maybe remove contracts?

11:49 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — what I don't understand is how can it run, then one alt+f4 later, won't

11:49 <discord-> egg. — yeah this is so weird

11:50 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — I've had CTDs with contracts, but only after the save game was loaded

11:50 <discord-> egg. — does it try to look into the save?

11:50 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — no.

11:51 <discord-> egg. — the save has 18 megs of base64 so that could annoy it

11:51 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — at that point where it crashes, it looks into configs only

11:53 <discord-> egg. — Zauberei

11:59 <discord-> egg. — tried replacing CC and CRP too, to no avail

12:19 <discord-> egg. — making a fresh install and copying over the saves directory fixes the issue, but that doesn't explain what the issue is...

12:20 <discord-> egg. — @Sir Mortimer do you have any files that you modify outside the save?

12:20 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — No

12:22 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — Maybe we can get that log to flush

12:42 <discord-> Sir Mortimer. — did you try without contracts?

12:45 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2392: Normalize the quaternions that we get from Unity - https://git.io/JeyHL

12:53 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

12:53 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3998/

12:53 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

13:08 <discord-> egg. — Will do so now

13:09 <discord-> egg. — @Sir Mortimer still broken without contracts

13:13 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2392: Normalize the quaternions that we get from Unity - https://git.io/JeyHL

13:14 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3998/

13:14 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3999/

13:15 <discord-> Damien. — Egg: can I have some bug reports and feature requests please?

13:15 <discord-> Damien. — Users: Here you go

13:15 <discord-> Damien. — https://i.imgur.com/79upGnL.gifv

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2389: #2388 breaks launches and landings - https://git.io/JeM9D

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2392: Normalize the quaternions that we get from Unity - https://git.io/JeyHL

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±13] https://git.io/JeyHy

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 40bb54b - Better output of quaternions and a test skeleton.

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 12b06b0 - Clean up the new test.

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 6f24f7d - Quaternion normalization.

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] ... and 2 more commits.

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=246

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=247

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=246

13:16 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=247

13:22 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2390: 1.8.1 - https://git.io/JeDJX

13:30 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2393: Camera rotation - https://git.io/JeyQY

13:30 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3999/

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4000/

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2390: 1.8.1 - https://git.io/JeDJX

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±13] https://git.io/JeyQO

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin afd2f9f - 1.8.1 support (but I need to add a separate config for the 1.7.3 build)

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin f75b2df - New name for the shader.

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin 176846d - Why can't we have both

13:31 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin fa227ca - Merge pull request #2390 from eggrobin/1.8 1.8.1

13:32 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2393: Camera rotation - https://git.io/JeyQY

13:33 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

13:34 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2393: Camera rotation - https://git.io/JeyQY

13:35 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

13:36 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2393: Camera rotation - https://git.io/JeyQY

13:37 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

13:37 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2393: Camera rotation - https://git.io/JeyQY

13:39 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

13:39 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4000/

13:39 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4001/

13:50 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. #246 succeeded - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=246

13:50 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=248

13:50 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=248

13:55 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4001/

13:55 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4002/

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14:01 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. #247 succeeded - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=247

14:02 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=249

14:02 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=249

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14:23 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2394: Add operator<< to many classes - https://git.io/JeyQ7

14:24 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. #248 succeeded - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=248

14:25 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

14:42 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2394 commit - https://git.io/Jey7v

14:42 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2394 commit - https://git.io/Jey7f

14:47 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. #249 succeeded - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=249

15:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2394: Add operator<< to many classes - https://git.io/JeyQ7

15:10 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4002/

15:10 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4003/

15:11 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4003/

15:11 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4004/

15:11 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4004/

15:11 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4005/

16:09 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2394: Add operator<< to many classes - https://git.io/JeyQ7

16:09 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2394 commit - https://git.io/Jey5q

16:09 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2394 commit - https://git.io/Jey5m

16:11 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

16:11 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4006/

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16:29 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4006/

16:32 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2393: Camera rotation - https://git.io/Jey52

16:33 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

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16:50 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4007/

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16:55 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2394: Add operator<< to many classes - https://git.io/JeyQ7

16:56 egg|anbo|egg has joined #principia

16:57 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

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17:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin edited pull request #2393: Camera rotation - https://git.io/JeyQY

17:01 <discord-> egg. — @Damien @Acer_Saccharum https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/2393

17:01 <discord-> egg. — featuring pretty pictures

17:02 <discord-> Damien. — ready for testing?

17:04 <discord-> Damien. — @Pap he's only gone and done it the madman

17:04 <discord-> Damien. — https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2284290/70375351-1537ea80-18fd-11ea-9df8-98fe3b4e1dbb.png

17:06 <discord-> egg. — also https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2284290/70375375-6ba52900-18fd-11ea-9e7b-cd02bc2983ef.png

17:06 <discord-> egg. — (the Sun is above)

17:06 <discord-> egg. — far, far above

17:06 <discord-> Damien. — yeah just looked at them all

17:06 <discord-> Damien. — impressive, seriously

17:07 <discord-> Damien. — now imagine how fun it'll be when people complain about the tilted ecliptic to tell them that principia will fix it

17:11 <discord-> egg. — you can already tell them that it will fix the moon

17:12 <discord-> Damien. — I do, constantly

17:13 <UmbralRaptor> EARTHMOO?

17:13 <discord-> egg. — @Damien, Principia VRP

17:13 <discord-> egg. — wait no, VRP is a french acronym

17:14 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4008/

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17:17 <discord-> egg. — https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2284290/70375323-ca1dd780-18fc-11ea-9b01-8561679d9c9e.png

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17:27 <discord-> Damien. — @egg is this testable? You're not going to make us wait a whole moon right?

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2391: The classes in geometry need an operator<< - https://git.io/JeDtG

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±40] https://git.io/Jeydh

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy e688ec8 - Add operator<< to many classes.

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 865c9dc - After egg's review.

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy f864803 - Lint.

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 14c4e55 - Merge pull request #2394 from pleroy/2391 Add operator<< to many classes

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2394: Add operator<< to many classes - https://git.io/JeyQ7

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=250

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=251

17:28 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=250

17:29 * discord- egg. — pours tea_

17:29 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=251

17:29 <discord-> egg. — of course, you can build from head (or in that case from the branch since it's not merged yet

17:30 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. #251 failed - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=251

17:32 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. #250 failed - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=250

17:33 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened issue #2395: Frames should know their handedness - https://git.io/JeyFT

17:33 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2395: Frames should know their handedness - https://git.io/JeyFT

17:39 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2396: Fix a postsubmit error - https://git.io/JeyFO

17:39 <discord-> Damien. — and for those of us who have no clue how to do that? 😛

17:41 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… -

17:41 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4009/

17:46 <discord-> egg. — @Damien it's documented https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/master/documentation/Setup.md

17:46 <discord-> egg. — (the documentation is somewhat out of date, in particular we're using a newer visual studio than that)

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17:56 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2396: Fix a postsubmit error - https://git.io/JeyFO

17:57 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4009/

18:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2396: Fix a postsubmit error - https://git.io/JeyFO

18:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JeyFo

18:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy e51580a - Fix a postsubmit error.

18:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 14ee576 - Merge pull request #2396 from pleroy/Postsubmit Fix a postsubmit error

18:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=252

18:00 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=253

18:01 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=252

18:01 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=253

18:05 <discord-> Sky!. — thanks, although I think neither of us know what we would be doing so it might be best for us to wait then...

18:33 <discord-> Sky!. — hey, how hard would it be to add persistent thrust for low twr vehicles, and also the harder question is, how hard would it be to add a relativistic equation to crafts so that it gets harder to accelerate a craft the closer you get to the speed of light? I am really wanting to do a realistic interstellar journey but without the first one it will be super hard even compared to the ambitious project, an

18:35 <discord-> Butcher. — What sort of mad engines are you planning to use to get relativistic speeds?

18:35 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — Let me just say, fixing Mercury's orbit is not something you should expect to happen soon

18:35 <discord-> egg. — > how hard would it be to add persistent thrust for low twr vehicles

18:35 <discord-> egg. — very (it's conceivable, but don't expect that on a timescale shorter than a year)

18:35 <discord-> egg. — > how hard would it be to add a relativistic equation to crafts so that it gets harder to accelerate a craft the closer you get to the speed of light

18:35 <discord-> egg. — Not going to happen

18:35 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. #252 succeeded - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=252

18:36 <discord-> Butcher. — @egg I want full relativistic effects on everything!

18:36 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — Space not being flat really makes things difficult

18:37 <discord-> Sky!. — xD, ye, I figured it was impossible but I just wanted to double check

18:37 <discord-> egg. — @Butcher not sure about ponies, but you can have nyancat rainbows with MechJeb

18:37 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — There is a mod for 🐴

18:37 <discord-> Damien. — why doesn't principia have nyancats?

18:37 <discord-> Sky!. — xD, ye, I figured it was improbable but I just wanted to double check (edited)

18:38 <discord-> egg. — no wait it's MM, not MechJeb

18:38 <discord-> Sky!. — persistent thrust tho would be cool to have eventually, to use certain ion/nuclear or other high isp low twr things

18:39 <discord-> Damien. — we can't get to the present day, let alone near future

18:40 <discord-> Acer_Saccharum. — I've done my fair share of bugging @ egg about that, I'm not sure more is needed

18:41 <discord-> egg. — we've been well aware of that from the beginning

18:41 <discord-> egg. — also atmospheric drag

18:41 <discord-> Butcher. — Do you rely on KSP for drag?

18:41 <discord-> egg. — yeah

18:41 <discord-> Butcher. — Or FAR assuming it's installed.

18:41 <discord-> egg. — yeah

18:42 <discord-> egg. — and we assume it doesn't exist for predictions

18:42 <discord-> egg. — so landing predictions are highly inaccurate even for ballistic reentries where we could do better

18:46 <_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. #253 succeeded - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=253

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22:04 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — @lpg Did you mess at inclination at all for East-West launches to the Moon? Going into 45 degree inclination helped this launch

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22:56 <discord-> lpg. — yeah the closer to polar it is, the easier it gets to guesstimate

23:15 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Yeah

23:15 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — I guess thats why Apollo had a roll program and launch azimuth too

23:17 <discord-> lpg. — I don't think there were too many guesstimates involved in that

23:19 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — Well obviously

23:20 <discord-> RurouniDonut. — But I see why they had the roll program, it got them closer to their trajectory with an East-West launch instead of a full polar launch