raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fréchet. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.x. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-_> R​urouniDonut. — What do you guys think is the “most precise” way to do a burn? I’m thinking about sending a probe to Mercury and using a Solid Rocket Motor to finish the burn. For that though I have very little margin to mess up.
<UmbralRaptop> Out of curiosity, how many course corrections did Mariner 10 (or MESSENGER) do?
<discord-_> R​urouniDonut. — I’m not sure
<discord-_> R​urouniDonut. — I’m not gonna use gravity assist, I just wanna shoot straight for Mercury
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — @RurouniDonut main burn using liquid fuel (or a solid maybe) and then pack some rcs for corrections.
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — @egg Should I just be able to use << to log a time in Principia? I'm getting what seem to be unexpected errors.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — ```Principia\ksp_plugin\manœuvre_body.hpp(53,1): error C2678: binary '<<': no operator found which takes a left-hand operand of type 'std::basic_ostream<char,std::char_traits<char>>' (or there is no acceptable conversion) (compiling source file flight_plan.cpp)
<discord-_> B​utcher. — ...
<discord-_> B​utcher. — manœuvre_body.hpp(53,1): message : while trying to match the argument list '(std::basic_ostream<char,std::char_traits<char>>, std::optional<principia::quantities::internal_quantities::Time>)' (compiling source file flight_plan.cpp)```
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Seems to me that
<discord-_> B​utcher. — ```template<typename D>
<discord-_> B​utcher. — std::ostream& operator<<(std::ostream& out, Quantity<D> const& quantity)```
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Should match it fine?
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah it should work
<discord-_> e​gg. — but looks like you're passing an optional time, not a time
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Yes, caught that/
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Working now. 👍
<discord-_> B​utcher. — I'll have some results in a couple of hours when I fire up KSP.
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — @egg I just tried it with more logging. I'm getting correct results.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — 😕
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<discord-_> e​gg. — O_o
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Butcher but still the wrong burn duration?
<discord-_> B​utcher. — No, correct.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Same burn setup as yesterday, 74.4s in Principia.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — I have left the code in for now, I'll see if I can find a wrong burn. My RCS duration is approximately 3 times too long, which correlates with that ship have three port RCS thrusters.
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<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — wow. Kerbalism is about to learn chinese
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer congratulations
<discord-_> e​gg. — we have been terrible at that with Principia
<discord-_> e​gg. — even though that's literally my day job
<discord-_> e​gg. — or perhaps because it's literally my day job, tbh
* discord-_ e​gg. — works in I18N_
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — You know chinese?
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — Kerbalism isn’t exactly great with i18n.
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — Until this happened https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/pull/576
<discord-_> l​amont. — tinygrox did mechjeb as well
<discord-_> e​gg. — that's tricky to review though
<discord-_> e​gg. — ideally you'd need another Chinese speaker who is also a Kerbalism player
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — I’ll have to just trust them ;)
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2436: Bulletin C 59 - https://git.io/Jveso
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2436: Bulletin C 59 - https://git.io/Jveso
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4079/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4079/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2436: Bulletin C 59 - https://git.io/Jveso
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] https://git.io/JveGx
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin f8f2fdb - NO leap second will be introduced at the end of June 2020.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin ea32b8d - Earth orientation parameters.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin 0596c8f - Merge pull request #2436 from eggrobin/bulletin-c-59 Bulletin C 59
<discord-_> e​gg. — also, since it happens to be my day job: @Got, re. your review comments pertaining to `<<n>>`, you can't do string concatenation if you translate, because word order varies
<discord-_> e​gg. — (e.g., to pick an example that may be more understandable to @Sir Mortimer, "do you want to delete " + vessel is extremely awkward to translate to German, which would want something like "wollen Sie " + vessel + " löschen")
<discord-_> e​gg. — Or, to pick an example from the files under review,
<discord-_> e​gg. — ```
<discord-_> e​gg. — #KERBALISM_Harvester_generatedescription = Extract <<1>> from <<2>>
<discord-_> e​gg. — ```
<discord-_> e​gg. — becomes
<discord-_> e​gg. — ```
<discord-_> e​gg. — #KERBALISM_Harvester_generatedescription = 从<<2>>中提取<<1>>
<discord-_> e​gg. — ```
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got If the <<n>> is prohibitively slow (I can imagine Squad screwing that up), {n} and String.Format might be a viable alternative; but you can't escape string interpolation when you localize
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer also to answer your question, I don't know Chinese; just French, English, and enough German to get through the BSc lectures that were in German (but I do work in I18N engineering, so I am familiar with the interactions of exciting linguistic properties with programmer assumptions)
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<discord-_> G​ot. — Yup I agree that is necessary for sentences, but 99.9% of our string concats are 3-4 words/values of the style `alocalizedstring : somevar (someothervar)`.
<discord-_> G​ot. — Aside from the performance issue (that method combined with a OnGui UI is a recipe for GC lag), I prefer to have things in the code as much as possible.
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got yeah it's a different situation for straight "label: value" situations
<discord-_> e​gg. — but as soon as it's even "{0} things" or that kind of stuff, you really want to interpolate
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got I absolutely agree that it's a complete mess that even the original is in the cfg, so that the source code is illegible
<discord-_> e​gg. — something something squad something
<discord-_> e​gg. — (actually when it's {0} things, literally, you start wanting to have plural cases, those are super fun)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (if you feel like reading mad things about pluralization on compact numbers, see my document https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wx9Drhpl9p2ZqVZMGQ7KUF4pUfPtuJupv8oQ_Gf6sEE/edit# from https://unicode-org.atlassian.net/browse/CLDR-12010 and despair 🙃 )
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got Python gettext is somewhat nicer, in that you end up with _("Extract %s from %s") % (blah, blargh) in the source, so that you know what's going on
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got Python gettext is somewhat nicer, in that you end up with `_("Extract %s from %s") % (blah, blargh)` in the source, so that you know what's going on (edited)
<discord-_> G​ot. — This feels awfully technical :P
<discord-_> G​ot. — Well we're not commercial software.
<discord-_> G​ot. — I prefer spend time on fixing one of the annoying bugs or crappy feature than have a polished localization that will get done once then slowly get out of sync as we change things.
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got yeah, I'm definitely not advocating going into the depths of CLDR madness (I just enjoy linking mad things :D)
<discord-_> e​gg. — but to the extent that squad provides a framework to do things OKish, it is probably a good idea to use it (again, label:value things are obviously fine to concatenate, but more refined things get very iffy)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (you can quickly end up with "search the toolbox for a screwdriver" becoming "rechercher la boite a outils pour un tournevis" or something similarly absurd)
<discord-_> G​ot. — Yup having at least a basic localization for non-latin languages is nice, I guess.
<discord-_> e​gg. — (I am assuming from the shadok that I can use french examples :-p)
<discord-_> G​ot. — Honestly I've tried once to play KSP in french, I was completly lost. I simply don't know a lot of the words related to orbital mechanics and rocket stuff in my native language. Very weird.
<discord-_> G​ot. — yup you can 🙂
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got I can recommend a book! https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/1123556005042970624
<discord-_> e​gg. — (cat not included)
<discord-_> e​gg. — but the book is really good
<discord-_> e​gg. — (and happens to be in French, though there's an English translation)
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got but yeah if you learn technical language in one language it can be hard to switch to another, even your native one
<discord-_> e​gg. — it gets even more fun if the definitions don't quite overlap
<discord-_> e​gg. — e.g. in algebra, the french *corps* means "skew field", and "field" means *corps commutatif*
<discord-_> e​gg. — or *positif* being equivalent to "nonnegative" (0 is *positif* and *négatif*, but neither positive nor negative)
<UmbralRaptop> … getting the cat requires also getting the ANBO edition?
<discord-_> e​gg. — I added a couple of comments where the <<n>> stuff is needed for the current wording (one of those is probably fine)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (fine as in easily reworded to something that doesn't have a placeholder)
<discord-_> G​ot. — Just gone through that book summary.
<discord-_> G​ot. — So there is the Principia design document :P
<discord-_> G​ot. — This is waaaay above my math skills
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Got it's actually basically the idea behind one of the tools that Principia gives you
<discord-_> e​gg. — it's fairly approachable actually, the author really starts from the basics
<discord-_> e​gg. — (and a lot of it is also just talking about the history of satellites, which is very fun)
<discord-_> e​gg. — this is the relevant tool https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Orbit-analysis
<discord-_> e​gg. — the figures in that documentation are made using the same software as the figures in the book actually :D
<discord-_> e​gg. — it's available here https://climserv.ipsl.polytechnique.fr/ixion/
<discord-_> D​amien. — yeah that's a good book. I'm clueless when it comes to math but I can get enouggh out of itt just from words and diagrams
<discord-_> D​amien. — yeah that's a good book. I'm clueless when it comes to math but I can get enough out of it just from words and diagrams (edited)