raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fréchet. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.x. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2463 commit - https://git.io/JvO3m
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2464: The final frontier - https://git.io/JvO3c
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2464: The final frontier - https://git.io/JvO3c
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2464: The final frontier - https://git.io/JvO3c
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JvO3C
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin a9f8c96 - The final frontier
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin 5487f23 - Merge pull request #2464 from eggrobin/retab The final frontier
Mike` has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
Mike` has joined #principia
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Kids today, don;t even know about IRC.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Kids today, don't even know about IRC. (edited)
<discord-_> D​amien. — I put on my robe and wizard's hat
<UmbralRaptop> 🤖
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 378 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Read error: -0x1: UNKNOWN ERROR CODE (0001)]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 190 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
<discord-_> n​eph. — Mmm yeah baby keep going
<discord-_> n​eph. — A
UmbralRaptop has quit [Quit: Bye]
<discord-_> L​u K.. — lmao
<discord-_> n​eph. — mm yeah baby keep going
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 202 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 190 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 190 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 202 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
UmbralRaptop has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 202 seconds]
<discord-_> F​alcon. — Egg, is there a way to make a second maneuver that is planned after the first, use another engine as a reference?
<discord-_> e​gg. — no, we have no support for staging at this time
<discord-_> F​alcon. — i found a workaround, shutdown the engine of the stage you no longer want to plan for, activate the engine of the stage you want to use, then click active engine only for that burn
<discord-_> D​amien. — Won't that use the wrong vessel mass though?
<discord-_> D​amien. — And affect burn time
oeuf is now known as egg
<egg> yeah if there's a staging event we will assume the mass staged away is still there
UmbralRaptop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
UmbralRaptop has joined #principia
<discord-_> F​alcon. — you were in fact correct, i spent like 30 minutes planning out all my burns and such. So I guess that will be the first major gripe i have with Principia, i would like to know that when i burn for a target, and require course corrections, that i can actually hit the target instead of hoping that i aimed correctly at the first injection
<discord-_> F​alcon. — im assuming that is probably already on the queue of things to do
<discord-_> e​gg. — we should understand vessels better (including staging), but you can't really plan corrections a priori, by definition
<discord-_> F​alcon. — yeah, think of it more of a rough estimate?
<discord-_> F​alcon. — because not every burn will be perfectly aimed or burned
<discord-_> e​gg. — yes, therefore you have corrections, *a posteriori*
<discord-_> D​amien. — correctionception
<discord-_> F​alcon. — yeah, but i need to figure out which is better tho...
<discord-_> F​alcon. — >.<
<discord-_> F​alcon. — also, Kerbal Alarm clock doesnt know how to handle Principia
<discord-_> F​alcon. — heh
<discord-_> e​gg. — which is better between what?
<discord-_> F​alcon. — poor wording, but which time is best to burn
<discord-_> e​gg. — OK I fail to understand what you are trying to say
<discord-_> F​alcon. — Okay...
<discord-_> F​alcon. — I am trying to figure out, what is the most efficient way to burn for mars now right? I missed the best part of the window so i am stuck on the tail end of it. And atm, becuase of how the planner works, I cant plan post insertion stage burns, so I have to guestimate what is the best time to burn yeah?
<discord-_> e​gg. — you can't accurately plan things that involve more than one stage
<discord-_> e​gg. — on the other hand, later burns might be less time-sensitive so you might get away with modeling them with the wrong engines
<discord-_> e​gg. — this has little to do with corrections though
<discord-_> e​gg. — corrections arise *once you have done the burn*
<discord-_> F​alcon. — well my insertion stage doesnt have the fuel to put me that close to my target
<discord-_> F​alcon. — because i put it at the tail end, its inefficient, i need another 250 or so Delta V
<discord-_> F​alcon. — in which I dont have
<discord-_> F​alcon. — so I am *relying* on my probe to correct for that
<discord-_> e​gg. — at which point you plan anew, to correct for the errors in the execution of the initial plan
<UmbralRaptop> 250 furlongs per fortnight?
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Falcon yes, but
<discord-_> e​gg. — > later burns might be less time-sensitive so you might get away with modeling them with the wrong engines
<discord-_> e​gg. — also as UmbralRaptop points out, units are a thing
<discord-_> F​alcon. — dont see how that pertains to our discussion, the last bit, but what I am saying is, yes I can plan after the burn, but that is going to take loads more time, and if I need to add another 250 m/s immediately to my velocity after the insertion stage burn, i dont have a lot of time to plan that bit efficiently
<discord-_> e​gg. — which last bit
<discord-_> l​pg. — I expect any "correction" burn could be plotted with the 'instantaneous' setting and get perfectly usable results
<discord-_> F​alcon. — > also as UmbralRaptop points out, units are a thing
<discord-_> F​alcon. — @egg that last bit
<discord-_> e​gg. — because you said a Δv of 250
<discord-_> e​gg. — 250 is not a speed
<UmbralRaptop> ^
<UmbralRaptop> I guess you could try to use SR units for everything, but this has consequences
<discord-_> F​alcon. — we understand what we mean when we say 250, and I said Delta V afterwards because I dont know how to make the delta symbol on my keyboard
<discord-_> F​alcon. — lol
<discord-_> e​gg. — you don't drive at 22 or at 50 or at 80, you drive at 22 m/s or 50 miles per hour or 80 km/h
<discord-_> A​cer_Saccharum. — of course he means 4.151*10^-22 moles
<discord-_> F​alcon. — > because i put it at the tail end, its inefficient, i need another 250 or so Delta V
<discord-_> F​alcon. — I am assuming that was the quote the bot was pertaining to?
<discord-_> e​gg. — that's still not a bot on the other end of the line
<discord-_> A​cer_Saccharum. — it's not a bot
<UmbralRaptop> Bird, not bot
<discord-_> F​alcon. — This thing honestly gives me the creeps
<discord-_> F​alcon. — xD
<discord-_> e​gg. — also, re. "we understand what we mean", you may have noticed that we have great trouble understanding each other, so clarity is of use
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Falcon it's not a bot!
<UmbralRaptop> Incidentally, windows, osx, and Ubuntu/gnome all have nice Greek keyboards that basically match up with QWERTY
<discord-_> e​gg. — it's an actual human
<discord-_> e​gg. — talking through a bot
<discord-_> e​gg. — I can do that too
<discord-_> F​alcon. — bird?
<egg> like this
<discord-_> F​alcon. — I knew that was you
<egg> now I'm talking through the bot
<egg> no but UmbralRaptop is a different person
<UmbralRaptop> chirp
<discord-_> F​alcon. — I dont know the difference between a human talking through it and the algorithm
<egg> THERE'S A NAME
<UmbralRaptop> …
<discord-_> F​alcon. — you all are like... 100 IQ points ahead of me
<discord-_> e​gg. — okay back to your question, this is getting too dumb
Acer_Saccharum has joined #principia
<discord-_> e​gg. — first of all, let's not call that second burn a correction
<discord-_> e​gg. — it is not that, and calling it that is misleading
<discord-_> e​gg. — it's just a second burn, it doesn't correct for inaccuracies in the first one
<discord-_> F​alcon. — boost burn then?
<discord-_> e​gg. — second, as @lpg and I said, that burn is much less affected by engine modeling
<discord-_> e​gg. — because you're mostly on a straight line at this point
<discord-_> l​pg. — @Falcon there is no algorithm. that was a joke
<discord-_> e​gg. — which means that it does not matter as much that you are modeling it with the wrong mass and the wrong engines
<Acer_Saccharum> Not a robot here either
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah @鹊桥IRC is just a bridge to IRC (a different chat system)
<discord-_> e​gg. — it's called 鹊桥 after the Chinese relay satellite
<discord-_> F​alcon. — what is its purpose, cant most people get on discord?
<discord-_> A​cer_Saccharum. — some people didn't want to move to Discord I guess
<discord-_> A​cer_Saccharum. — better to still include them in discussion than leave them behind
<discord-_> e​gg. — I tend to prefer IRC myself a lot of the time
<egg> leading to confusion as I incessantly
<discord-_> e​gg. — switch between the two
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Falcon so basically, don't worry about engine selection/lack of staging support for that second burn; just make sure the Δv expended on it is less than what you have on the relevant stage
<discord-_> l​pg. — have you ever confused yourself into talking to yourself?
<discord-_> e​gg. — not yet
<discord-_> F​alcon. — I am just dense as hell
<discord-_> F​alcon. — so I apologize for that
<discord-_> e​gg. — to be fair we could use some better documentation, and there is lots of room for improvement in the flight plan
Acer_Saccharum has quit [Quit: webchat.esper.net]
<discord-_> e​gg. — "some better" that's probably not very grammar
<discord-_> l​pg. — Personally I think I might deal with that scenario by just plotting the full burn as if I did have enough dv on the first stage. Not as accurate, but that _is_ what actual correction burns are for
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah that's an option as well
<discord-_> l​pg. — (better, obviously, to just have enough dv in the stage, and go do some other mission if you can't)
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Falcon now, for correction burns (the thing where you correct for errors in executing the initial plan), what you do is delete the plan, and plan anew using RCS or a low-thrust engine, and there you want to be accurate
<discord-_> F​alcon. — so use Active RCS then?
<discord-_> F​alcon. — for the next maneuver/burn
<discord-_> e​gg. — for the *correction*, not the second manoeuvre of the initial plan
<discord-_> e​gg. — 1. create plan with two manoeuvres;
<discord-_> e​gg. — 2. execute plan (with inaccuracies, because you can't pilot perfectly and because we don't model staging);
<discord-_> e​gg. — 3. delete plan;
<discord-_> e​gg. — 4. create new plan with one manoeuvre (the correction) that uses RCS or some low-thrust engine;
<discord-_> e​gg. — 5. execute TCM (trajectory correction manoeuvre).
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer btw please poke me about the contract thing I should have time to look at it over the week-end