egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok i'm in orbit above target so target is chasing me.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ now, should i wait for target to be near as it is similar orbit, or .. how to do optimal window- where to seek for it ?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ need a screenshot in target frame
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ i have difficulty finding the target here(
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ why are you showing the stock patched conics?
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok sorry
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ What part of "Do not use for flight planning!" is unclear?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Still can't see the target. Where is it now, is it visible on the screen?
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ nope it is on the other side of planet
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ the rendezvous will take some time then... how long can you stay in orbit?
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ for a week or two
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ it is simulation it is ok 😄
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ well, it's enough anyway. The purple line shows you hopefully closing in to the target (hopefully, because i can't see it
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ How long is one of these loops? if you hover over the DN markers you can see their timing, so in other words, what is the time between DNs?
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ around 90 min
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ I suppose you can just wait a bit then, until the target it reasonably close
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok, but in other setup when i need to plan rendezvous long ahead, how do i plan it then ? how can i know in advance what would be the manevuer ?
<queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ you plan ?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ yeah. (Also you should probably close precisenode, the ascent guidance, flight engineer, and all those other things that aren’t relevant to your current task. I’m definitely getting information overload looking at those screenshots, so someone who doesn’t know what they’re looking for will have it worse…)
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ you need to launch at the right time to be closer to the target
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ -yeah.
<queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ which is one of the reasons having 2 launch windows every day is good
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ how o close precise node ? it shows autimaticaly when i'm trying to make a maneuver
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪byte⟫ ok, but in other setup when i need to […] ⮪ if you want to get closer faster, you can change your orbital period so that it is more separated from the target’s. Which is what your planned trajectory is doing.
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<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ i raised my orbit a bit to get more difference
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Maybe look at it top-down, so you can see both vessels?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Also, you have an obsolete flight plan with no manœuvres. You should be using the flight planner to plan.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Just wait 11h
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Also, you have an obsolete flight plan […] ⮪ I have no idea what is obsolete, i use recent release 😦
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Just wait 11h ⮪ except that’s the planned trajectory, which is out of date.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ (
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ah ok, do a rebase ?
<queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ after every impulse, rebase
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪byte⟫ I have no idea what is obsolete, i use […] ⮪ 1. I don’t mean obsolete in that sense, I mean that it reflects an earlier state. So yes, rebase.
<queqiao-> 2. Unrelated to the convernation, but no, you’re not using a recent release, that’s why you have an upgrade message.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ And don’t burn randomly, use the planner to figure out where and how much to burn, and then do what the plan says ; the planner allows you to control the direction of your burn in a more sensible way.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ CKan doesn't mention any update avaialble
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪byte⟫ CKan doesn't mention any update […] ⮪ You didn’t install Principia using CKAN, because it’s not on CKAN.
<queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ you need to go to the principia github for new versions
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ also, you have a thing right there on your screen which tells you to update. Please read what’s on your screen.
<queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ a new one is released every moon
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ah ok, maybe thats true
<queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ you dont always need to upgrade, most changes are quality of life, but if you are experiencing problems, first thing is to upgrade everything to newest
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ Yes i saw that, so i was wondering why there is no update, but yes, it is manually installed
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok updating and will start again
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ no real need to update ightnow
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ * right now
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Updating is a good idea in general, but won’t change anything you are doing right now.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (and will probably mean waiting for the game to restart, which may not be your idea of fun.)
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ well i'm determined to have this done today, if i cannot make simple rendezvous with principia then i'm simply too stupid for it and should go back to conics.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok, launching game
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ btw- why principia is not in ckan ? and why we do have this werid masking for 1.11 for rp-1 ? i don;t get that 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1720 (which seems to be the first search result when googling "principia ckan"…)
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ⟪egg⟫ https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/princ[…] ⮪ ok, that makes things clear. 🙂 though principia itself could be on ckan, but if launched without redist it could throw message out 🙂 but that is being user friendly 😉
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok almost done launching
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪byte⟫ ok, that makes things clear. 🙂 though […] ⮪ I suggest you reread the answer there. This addresses the technical dependency management issue. Not the basic issue of support. Which, given how much support you have been requiring, very much exists.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ And it hank you for the support. I play with principia because of realism it provides. Looking from user / player perspective it has steep learning curve, and documentation do not help much lets say in rendezvous area.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok - getting back to launch - i should launch in a window that plaes me somewhere in higher orbit tham my target in the same plane (as target is relatively low at 200 km
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ If you can launch at a time when the target is close to you, I would suggest launching to simply the same orbit as the target
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ if not, then yes, probably higher so that they catch up to each other faster
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ if you have not launched yet: could you maybe show the orbit of the target from the tracking station in ECEF frame?
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ i'll try 160 km circular, it might be faster to rendezvous
<_whitenotifier-81d9> [Principia] eggrobin opened issue #3441: Displaying patched conics should only display those conics that are consistent with the chosen plotting frame - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3441
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ i think it is better to have higher orbit 🙂 it will take a while and due to perturbations i might crash
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ so this is the closest approach point
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Now you should tweak the "Δv tangent" field of the manœuvre to see how that affects the closest approach.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ i managed to get this
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I have been telling you to plan, rather than burn, for the past fifteen hours, I’m sure eventually you’ll get the message…
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ but it looks ok, assuming there is 106m/s dV remaining and more for additional maneuvers and docking
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ yes you told me to, and i tried to plan, its just one more noddle to play with.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ next one i'll try with planning
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ also problem is that when i make a plan and then execute it during rcs positions everything gets messed up as it alters orbit so i need to rebase
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪byte⟫ yes you told me to, and i tried to […] ⮪ Except that this additional noodle is parameterized along the right directions, which was the source of your initial confusion. If you are not going to listen to the advice you are given, please don’t waste other people’s time by asking for that advice.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ my orbit prograde direction is in ecef ? that is why my smart A.S.S. is pointing where it points so manevuering was done in proper frame? manevuers in earth reference, but display in tgtec ?
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ plannin g node also with that reference as i rememeber correctly
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ > my orbit prograde direction is in ecef ?This sentence does not make sense.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Rather the maneuvering frame here is ECEF. ECI would probably be better though not very different.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Yes, ECI is what you want for the manœuvre frame.
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<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok i see the difference - not exactly sure what does it change with my manevuers, but i get the difference- i think going further from earth scope would make more difference.
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok speeding it up showed me the perspective 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ i think i understand how it goes - i need to put green markers where the target is.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ yes, the closer the better
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ and since target is not moving in this frame it is clear how the trajectory moves
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ ok i think i finally understood this frame
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ so I'm staying with principia 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ incompatible ports! bravo me 😄 but it worked finally
<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ thank you for patience. I have my own way of figuring out things, and i already planned wth manevuers, final adjustment was by node
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<queqiao-> ⟨byte⟩ I think I might have an idea what i'm looking at 🙂 MEO like perspective and orthogonal view to plane of transit?