egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-> ⟨EstrelaGaliza⟩ Steam gives Discord Nitro for 3 months
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<paculino> Raptop, what is the difference between raptop, raptop_, and umbralraptop for? Does your client not allow multiple machines accessing the same account?
<umbralraptop> Too lazy to set up a bouncer
<umbralraptop> And all of my machines have sort of limited uptime and/or connectivity
<queqiao-> ⟨YaBoiAnt⟩ doing my first playthrough with principia and was wondering if it has a effect on spin stabilization? using a previous design for the 3000km down range its a rd102 with a xasr... but when i stage for the aerobee it disconnects and just goes insane spinning looking like a helicopter
<queqiao-> ⟨nvv⟩ I've had a similar issue^
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<_whitenotifier-7bc1> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3467: A benchmark for multi-level single linkage - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3467
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<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ You need principia's flight planner to create a plan that actually leads to the Moon in an n-body environment
<queqiao-> ⟨ComputerCoco⟩ No I mean like
<queqiao-> I might be able simulate the system outside of the ksp environment to know when to do my burns
<queqiao-> And I mean I dont need to use principia's flight planner if I the player arn't the one controlling the ship right xD
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ This is like writing your own little principia I'm afraid
<queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ possible, but performance will probably end up ass
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ "I
<queqiao-> ⟨ComputerCoco⟩ Yea thats the big problem
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ whipping up your own n-body simulator to run alongside principia's doesn't sound like a winning plan
<queqiao-> ⟨ComputerCoco⟩ So then, it'd be better to just to extend principia's external api myself right?
<queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ Extending the external API to read data is a "simple matter of programming". Extending it to modify the state of Principia is .
<queqiao-> ⟨ComputerCoco⟩ even just making a flight plan?
<queqiao-> hmmm
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Maybe if you can somehow come up with a rough maneuver on your own, and just execute it, and somehow receive data from Principia about your predicted trajectory and make corrections based on that....
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ +then
<queqiao-> ⟨ComputerCoco⟩ mmmmmmmmmm
<queqiao-> I could I could
<queqiao-> But the perfectionist in me doesn't like that
<queqiao-> I'd rather find a way to make my own flight plans from the external api
<queqiao-> Or at least try
<queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ There would actually be value to us exposing the flight plans in the external API, it's just that it's extremely boring. The MechJeb "execute Principia manœuvre" is extremely useful, but it's kind of lame (albeit astute) that it has to read the navball.
<queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ * in
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪sichelgaita⟫ There would actually be value in us […] ⮪ Just to be sure I understand that correctly (still in the fence for trying principia) does mechjeb guidance still work for executing principia flight plans and initial as ent like normal?? Or is it all manual now?
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Also, for 3000km downrange, are you suggesting with 'short and stubby' that the typical WAC on a Bumper rocket won't work anymore? I'm curious if anyone has a design example of that they used to achieve 3000km downrange if that's the case
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Typical WAC might work, but short upper stages are better
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Just to be sure I understand that correctly (still on the fence for trying principia) does mechjeb guidance still work for executing principia flight plans and initial ascent like normal?? Or is it all manual now?
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Thanks for that! Kinda what I expected but holy shit that's a huge shift from typical RP1 lol almost like unlearning everything you've done before!
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ the classic bumper shape works fine
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ > still on the fence for trying principiaI fail to understand that amount of hesitation; make a backup of your save (always a good idea in any case), try it, see if it’s your thing?
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ I kinda wanted to get better at the usual RP1 before making the switch but thinking it might be better to just go for Principia sooner than later to avoid unlearning all the previous bad habits
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ eh. playing career, principia takes sort of forever to be relevant at all
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Well, it depends. Some early spin-stabilized rockets do actually fail with principia 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪egg⟫ > still on the fence for trying […] ⮪ I just built a secondary game directory for Principia with the mods installed. But it's more on a time invested perspective to learn the nuances all over again I feel
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ it's why I hesitated for a long time. do I install it, play for a few weeks, _then_ discover I hate it and have to decide whether removing it will break too much stuff
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪lpg⟫ eh. playing career, principia takes […] ⮪ That's what I thought initially but then hearing how suborbital flight is affected to an extent made me second guess my thought of changing
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ it isn't, that's just FUD
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ FUD? not familiar with the acronym lol
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I would recommend not starting from the cape if you want to start playing Principia in career though
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (going to the moon from the cape is very different from stock, and that bites you hard far into your campaign)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Kourou is nice
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ or that place in India
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪egg⟫ I would recommend not starting from the […] ⮪ I used to try flying from Churchill Manitoba in the past but gave up on that for the ease of the Cape.
<queqiao-> Recently considered using Vandeburg and the Cape to pump out early sounding rockets at twice the speed and then switching to just the Cape for orbital missions in the end.
<paculino> Twice the speed but twice the facility costs might not be worth it
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪xPROxSLASHERx⟫ I used to try flying from Churchill […] ⮪ you might be missing the point.
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ive not had too much issue with pincipia missions from the cape??
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ The moon is less inclined most of the time in Principia.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ So you cannot launch into the plane of the lunar orbit.
<paculino> Off-plane makes stuff harder since you need to get the timing closer to ideal
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪paculino⟫ Twice the speed but twice the facility […] ⮪ Only planned to use a single VAB point upgrade at the secondary location. So 20k total expense for the possibility of some extra contracts in shorter time frame, but I see your point
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Hmm, I see what you mean about Cape launches to the moon. Interesting! I'd prefer to stick with North American sites though generally. Closer to home lol
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Just use the Lunar Transfer mod, it removes all the difficulty
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ a single-point second launch site is a great way to cheat the system. also completely irrelevant to principia
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪egg⟫ you might be missing the point. ⮪ I did initially miss that your comment said the Capes not as easy lol thought you said it was the place to start 🤣
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Just use the Lunar Transfer mod, it […] ⮪ is that only designed for the cape?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ no, it works anywhere
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Just use the Lunar Transfer mod, it […] ⮪ Never heard of it... What does it do??
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Tells you when to launch to the Moon
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Tells you when to launch to the Moon ⮪ Hmm, so doesn't do it for you, just tells you the best timing? Sounds worthwhile! Is it on ckan?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ yes
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ How do y'all feel about interplanetary missions with Principia? I've never reached that point myself in RP1 but still a valid question I feel for way down the road
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Somewhat doable? Or insanely tough to achieve?
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ in progress
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ mars and venus havent been too hard thus far
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Holy hell that just looks confusing lmao
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Interplanetary is much easier than stock
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ although ive been using the TWP and thats made it much easier sooo
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪Jexa Jexins⟫ although ive been using the TWP and […] ⮪ TWP? lol another mod?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪xPROxSLASHERx⟫ Somewhat doable? Or insanely tough to […] ⮪ I believe you have been shown the tutorial for that somewhere in the backlog…
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ part of the express install
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪egg⟫ I believe you have been shown the […] ⮪ I did look at it briefly last night. Will check out again, thanks for the reminder
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Interplanetary is much easier than stock ⮪ Well, it's easier except for the fact that you need to plan maneuvers yourself and not just ask mechjeb to do it.
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪Jexa Jexins⟫ part of the express install ⮪ Ahh of course lol my bad didn't recognition the abbreviation
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ no worries m either two days ago xD
<queqiao-> ⟨Marsh⟩ Principia is worth it, the main thing that will mess you up is the fact the interface is different (but much better) than stock KSP. Commit to learning it no matter how much it frustrates you, and you’ll be fine. If you uninstall it at the first moment of difficulty, you’ll never learn it
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ cant get over how pretty it is
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪Marsh⟫ Principia is worth it, the main thing […] ⮪ This
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪Marsh⟫ Principia is worth it, the main thing […] ⮪ Good points! I do like the overall interface, and the addition of more realistic orbits but still slightly worried I'll suck though and burn my career into the ground 🤣 but perserverence is key of course
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ima attempt capstone soon so thatll be fun
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ And lots of backup saves I imagine 😝
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ one of the things that makes principia "easier" than stock is never again having to deal with patched conic bugginess
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ True, it was pretty janky
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ being able to put a probe into 300km high pass of a planet and leaave it till the day it arrives and know itll be there is sooooooooo nice
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ If I tried putting up comm satellites in earth's orbit (or elsewhere), especially geosynchronous orbit... How likely are they to be stable? Or will the orbits decay and shit greatly over time?
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ GEO sats will indeed _shit greatly_
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Marsh⟫ Principia is worth it, the main thing […] ⮪ hear the words of the founder of the esoteric order of 𒀭𒁕𒃶
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ 141km LEO orbits are no longer a thing
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ GEO is not a big issue, as there are two stable points
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Moon satellites suffer the most
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪Jexa Jexins⟫ 141km LEO orbits are no longer a thing ⮪ Seems reasonable, I'm guessing the earth's gravity would just pull it abck down a lot sooner?
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪xPROxSLASHERx⟫ Seems reasonable, I'm guessing the […] ⮪ i dont know the science but your obit changes as you go round guessing due to uneven gravity or some shit
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Moon satellites suffer the most ⮪ I did want moon comm Sat's originally but I guess that's out the window with this mod then?
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪xPROxSLASHERx⟫ I did want moon comm Sat's originally […] ⮪ still possible jusst in very precific orbits
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ * specific
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ moon comm sats don't use a low orbit. they're fine.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ well, you can do that, but need either a stable orbit or a lot of babysitting (and fuel)
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Good points. Appreciate the input! Curtail my expectations somewhat lol I tend to be a perfectionist and I'm noticing that's gonna be unlikely with this mod
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ surely there is a lot of room for perfectionism 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Would be nice haha
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ perfectionism is fine aslong as it doesnt involve very low orbits haha
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ principia just opens the door to different kinds of perfection
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ purple noodle fascination is hard to shake off
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ ⟪lpg⟫ moon comm sats don't use a low orbit. […] ⮪ I have a moon comm sat that's been up for over ten years.
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ whats it orbit?
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ * its
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ About 70,000 km retrograde.
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ohh yeah thats fine thats pretty high
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ think he was talking about less than 100km
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ It's outside the hill sphere.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Hmm, that would be just impossible in stock, outside of SOI i think
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ it's pretty extreme in a different way
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ (and not at all what I was referring to)
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪Butcher⟫ It's outside the hill sphere. ⮪ ill pretend i know what that means rn xD
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ Is handy because it's above the horizon of a given point for several days.
<queqiao-> ⟨ماركو⟩ I love principia,but i have issues mantaining too many sats,the game start getting laggy when i time warp
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ But it's not handy because it's them below the horizon.
<queqiao-> ⟨ماركو⟩ But principia is just superior to stock ksp
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪ماركو⟫ I love principia,but i have issues […] ⮪ yeah max warp just aint fun xD
<queqiao-> ⟨ماركو⟩ Its just plain painful
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ max warp is not fine with kerbalism anyway, so it's not an issue
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ I only do 100,000x usually.
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ Also, more cores helps.
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ I'll do a million in the early game.
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪Butcher⟫ Also, more cores helps. ⮪ wdym?
<umbralraptop> Jexa Jexins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere Plugging in wikiality values, I get ~58,000 km (and change) for the Moon's Hill Sphere
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪umbralraptop⟫ Jexa Jexins: https://en.wikipedia.org/wi[…] ⮪ brain goes pop
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ ⟪Jexa Jexins⟫ wdym? ⮪ I mean principia is properly multithreaded so more cpu cores helps.
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪Butcher⟫ I mean principia is properly […] ⮪ how do i increase the amount of cores used?
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ my cpu is untouched? ive got 8
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ untouched?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ maybe there is just ... not much load?
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ how would i increase load? open map view?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Increase prediction settings to the max 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ It's guaranteed to load any CPU to 100%
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ Tbh I've not actually checked how much cpu ksp uses on mine. Unless you're warping it's going to be low though.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ +(well, if there are vessels in orbit, otherwise not)
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ punched everything up....
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ nout maybe some ksp setting?
<queqiao-> ⟨ماركو⟩ ⟪Butcher⟫ Also, more cores helps. ⮪ I got a ryzen 1600
<queqiao-> ⟨ماركو⟩ So i have to limit warp to 100k x?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Now this is weird, time is yellow so KSP is struggling, why CPU is not loaded 🤔
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Now this is weird, time is yellow so […] ⮪ my point exactly
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ One thread bottlenecked.
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ that's ksp
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ Full load balance is hard with a game like ksp.
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪Butcher⟫ One thread bottlenecked. ⮪ how do i open it up to multiple threads?
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ you don't. that's ksp
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ as for principa, it'll give a core to each vessel (up to the maximum) I believe
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪lpg⟫ as for principa, it'll give a core to […] ⮪ if that was true there would be more load?
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ that doesn't mean it'll use 100% of that core, it'll use however much it needs
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ if ksp is pinning its core, everything else is just going to be waiting for it
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ god i hope ksp 2 is multithreaded...
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ hmm, but the point of turning up the prediction settings was to load cores used by principia
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ It still can't go faster than the slowest thread.
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ the prediction settings weren't meaningfully turned up
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ ⟪lpg⟫ the prediction settings weren't […] ⮪ wdym
<queqiao-> ⟨QeDelphyn (Xšayāršā/-ām/-āyā)⟩ ⟪Jexa Jexins⟫ god i hope ksp 2 is multithreaded... ⮪ It apparently is.
<queqiao-> ⟨Jexa Jexins⟩ well the artemis 1 broadcast was interesting... good they can animate
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<queqiao-> ⟨xPROxSLASHERx⟩ Just started the new game with the Express install + Principia but in the VAB in noticed there was no Mechjeb drop down menu. Is that normal or did I bork something? Checked Ckan and mechjeb is listed as installed
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg⟩ need a command part to get mechjeb