egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<kmath> <PixlEmly> ・ 。 ⏎ E∴。 * ⏎  ・゚*。*・ ⏎   ・ *゚。   * ⏎   ・ ゚*。・゚ X。 ⏎    &・。°*. ゚ ⏎ *  ゚。·*・。 ゚* ⏎    ゚ *.。=。 . ・ ⏎   * o 。・゚*.。 ⏎     * + ゚・。 * 。… https://t.co/r2tKmqK3JQ
* UmbralRaptop feels like this is another reason to pay rent with physical checks. https://twitter.com/N3X15/status/983110964718452736
<kmath> <N3X15> I've tried several times to work with them on it. But time and time again, I get fucked and have to make a manual… https://t.co/rKoUTpBe3p
<bofh> Like this is why I pay rent with physical checks still tbh.
<bofh> like that's the one thing I use them for.
<egg> bofh: i see you do not live in france
<egg> (for some reason france is full of checks)
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<egg> meow
<kmath> <✔GMA> Flop the Blue Jay, who was raised with cats, does a pretty fantastic impression of one. Check out this “meow!”… https://t.co/68Y1rCTKS1
<egg> is this UmbralRaptop
<UmbralRaptop> >_>
<egg> bofh: okay so I have a correctly-rounded cbrt that runs in 2965 ns
<egg> thmpir
<kmath> <PlavchanPeter> 1 of many reasons to NOT cut @NASAedu funding as proposed in the FY19 WH budget request: the SpaceGrant program! In… https://t.co/st7SJQIFRw
<egg> bofh: excluding cases where the nonsense I do that involves doubles overflows, it's correctly rounded because it crashes if it encounters a tie, and since it uses truncation not enough bits for round to nearest results in a tie :-p
* UmbralRaptop stares at egg.
<UmbralRaptop> *crashing* is correct behavior? o_O
<egg> UmbralRaptop: well, if it returns the result is correctly rounded
<egg> and it probably returns, but I don't want it to silently incorrectly round since the point of this function is that it correctly rounds at any cost
<UmbralRaptop> Crashing makes it sound like there's no error message, though.
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<bofh> egg: rofl
<UmbralRaptop> … I've been so corrupted by the internet that my first thought upon seeing this label is that I can make a tuna sandwich with it. https://photos.app.goo.gl/5VQmDufUqIRKSJ8o1
<egg> UmbralRaptop: tuna?
<kmath> <whitequark> "Is tuna RoHS compliant?" https://t.co/7DYxfdWdCh https://t.co/vXWx57tfAd
<egg> bofh: and indeed I hadn't given it enough bits so truncation yields a tie for Y=4619448555987882763
<egg> (yes I've taken to printing floats as integers because that's the fastest way to plug them into my soft-float mathematica package)
<bofh> wait really? wtf is your softfloat mathematica package >_>
<bofh> 6.89451834334318913733, apparently.
<bofh> ...WHY DOES THAT NUMBER LOOK VAGUELY FAMILIAR TO ME
<bofh> like I'm getting the strangest fucking déjà vu looking at it.
<egg> bofh: yeah but you don't want that format, since that's a machine precision Mathematica number, whereas the integer is nicely lossless :-p
<egg> bofh: its cube root is 0|01111111111|1110011100111100111101101010111000100011110110111110;100000000000001000....
<bofh> true, but I don't recognize it (also why not print it as hex instead of dec? I can actually recognize common hexfloats)
<egg> bofh: because 16^^whatever is not as easy to print as the decimal
<bofh> except you just gave me Y=4619448555987882763 as decimal instead of Y=0x401B93FC9DD9530B as hex :P
<egg> bofh: obviously in general in principia I print things properly with 17 sig. dec. but for FP fuckery this is suprisingly practical :-p
<bofh> rofl
<egg> bofh: everything doesn't use 0xwhatever, mathematica uses 16^^whatever (see also masm's whateverh, and Ada's 16#whatever#) :-p
<bofh> heh
<egg> bofh: OK, here's Microsoft:
<egg> incorrect roundings : 5242937(52.4294 %)
<egg> Tested 10000000 values in [1, 8[.
<egg> unfaithful roundings : 3453358(34.5336 %)
<egg> okay wait my thing seems broken it's reporting unfaithful roundings from atlas's method
<egg> yeah something's broken
<egg> it seems to report a minimum of 33.3848 unfaithful roundings on everything, which probably means it is broken on that fraction of inputs >_>
<bofh> Yep, sounds about right.
<bofh> I don't buy there's that many unfaithful roundings both from your method *and* Atlas's.
<bofh> (I *do* believe that as being plausible for MS's, tho)
<egg> even from them it seems high :-p
<egg> okay but what is wrong with my thing
<bofh> given that you got >1ULP of error from MS's, uh.
<egg> bofh: that just mean it does round unfaithfully on occasion, but it doesn't do so a third of th etime
<egg> I mean it probably does so ~1% of the time, subtracting the broken 33.38% :-p
<bofh> wait, y_mantissa * 0x1p300 ?
<bofh> why 0x1p300?
<bofh> otherwise uh it feels like you're hitting a case where you're borrowing from the exponent in your mantissa (consider that invsqrt magic constant paper and how he divided the functions to optimize into different classes based on whether your exponent was even or odd)
<bofh> like basically I am curious if the brokenness is happening for a given exponent value mod 3
<bofh> or if it's totally random against that
<egg> yeah, it's in [4, 8[
<egg> there's some elementarily broken logic three
<egg> s/three/there
<bofh> since it's weirdly close to exactly a third.
<Qboid> egg meant to say: there's some elementarily broken logic there
<egg> 1.90198 not in {0.475496, 0.475496}
<egg> with y=6.88049
<egg> etc.
<bofh> LOL
<bofh> YEAH I WOULD HOPE IT'S NOT
<egg> bofh: 0x1p300 because the root is in integer arithmetic, so I need to shift the decimal point far, far away
<egg> tried 0x1p201 previously and got the tie mentioned above so went with 0x1p300 which doesn't hit ties on ten million random values :-p
<bofh> ahh.
<egg> bofh: I'm suspecting my while loop
<egg> is it obviously wrong
<bofh> I'm not seeing any *obvious* errors offhand
<egg> (ignore any overflows, ignore negatives, ignore underflows, we're in [1,8[)
<bofh> yeah obv
<egg> ;rpn 0.475496 2 *
<kmath> egg: 0.950992
<egg> ;rpn 0.475496 3 *
<kmath> egg: 1.426488
<egg> ;rpn 0.475496 4 *
<kmath> egg: 1.901984
<egg> so I'm off by a factor of 4 somehow
<egg> if y is in [4, 8[
<egg> bofh: in [4,8[ exponent is 3, right?
* egg pokes frexp with a stick
<bofh> egg: yes, I think
<egg> bofh: -exponent/3 has the wrong sign?
<egg> bofh: okay that's more reasonable:
<egg> Tested 10000000 values in [1, 8[.
<egg> incorrect roundings : 3028009(30.2801 %)
<egg> unfaithful roundings : 267162(2.67162 %)
<egg> (microsoft)
<egg> atlas:
<egg> Tested 10000000 values in [1, 8[.
<egg> unfaithful roundings : 0(0 %)
<egg> incorrect roundings : 802855(8.02855 %)
<egg> egg:
<egg> Tested 10000000 values in [1, 8[.
<egg> incorrect roundings : 101(0.00101 %)
<egg> unfaithful roundings : 0(0 %)
<egg> bofh: they're good cube roots brent
<egg> bofh: I should try the sun microsystems implementation and its variations someday (also maybe the glibc thing)
<egg> bofh: 0.000873 % on 100000000 values
<egg> (percentages are getting clumsy)
<egg> bofh: 8.73 ppm incorrect roundings
<bofh> rofl
<egg> bofh: so interestingly clobbering more than 36 bits makes things worse (currently sitting at 12-13 ppm and refining)
<bofh> I'm not surprised, clobbering more bits would rather unsurprisingly be bad, you lose actual precision then
<egg> bofh: it's not clear that you have 16 bits
<egg> bofh: I think you don't have 16 bits worst case, at least
<egg> (and I'm not doing an error analysis that yields percentiles, the maximum norm is sufficiently maddening thanks :-p)
<bofh> rofl so like the maximum norm suffices here imho
<egg> bofh: hm, descending to 5th order householder might be improving things otoh
<egg> bofh: yeah but additional clobbering might improve the maximum norm :-p
<egg> hmmm, nah, 5th order householder is either worsening things or not significantly improving them
<egg> (and iirc it doesn't change performance because the critical path is the same depth so meh)
<egg> bofh: actually the critical path being the same depth kind of relates to the rounding errors being the same
<egg> bofh: got 8.60 ppm on the same sample values, really not sure whether it's actually improving things (e.g. at 89000000 it was still at 8.81 ppm, this stuff fluctuates quite a bit)
<egg> bofh: fmas don't appear to noticeably improve precision either, although if they were done in hardware they would probably nicely improve performance
<egg|phone|egg> Why am I awake
<egg|phone|egg> 喵
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<egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a power polytrope
<egg> !wpn котя
* Qboid gives котя a molten barrel
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<egg> !acr -add:DIP Dual In-line Package
<Qboid> egg: I already know an explanation for DIP! (Update it with !acr -update:DIP Dual In-line Package)
<egg> DIP?
<Qboid> egg: [DIP] => Dual In-line Package
<egg> hah
<egg> whitequark: the "bug" terminology is also used for non-DIP packages?
<egg> what kind of bug is that
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a numerical zepplin
<whitequark> !wpn egg
* Qboid gives egg a cute ideograph
<whitequark> QFP?
<Qboid> whitequark: [QFP] => Quad Flat Package
<whitequark> TQFP?
<Qboid> whitequark: [TQFP] => Thin Quad Flat Package
<whitequark> QFN?
<Qboid> whitequark: [QFN] => Quad Flat No-leads package
<whitequark> LGA?
<Qboid> whitequark: [LGA] => Land Grid Array
<whitequark> PGA?
<whitequark> !acr -add:PGA Pin Grid Array
<Qboid> whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark> BGA?
<Qboid> whitequark: [BGA] => Ball Grid Array
<egg|work|egg> yay cute ideograph
* egg|work|egg pets the ideograph
<whitequark> WLCSP?
<Qboid> whitequark: [WLCSP] => Wafer Level Chip Scale Package
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: I think you added a bunch of those when you first came here
<whitequark> SSOP?
* egg|work|egg ponders grabbing some food
<whitequark> !acr -add:SOP Small Outline Package
<Qboid> whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark> !acr -add:SSOP Shrink Small Outline Package
<Qboid> whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark> !acr -add:TSSOP Thin Shrink Small Outline Package
<Qboid> whitequark: I already know an explanation for TSSOP! (Update it with !acr -update:TSSOP Thin Shrink Small Outline Package)
<whitequark> !acr -add:TSOP Thin Shrink Outline Package
<Qboid> whitequark: I already know an explanation for TSOP! (Update it with !acr -update:TSOP Thin Shrink Outline Package)
<whitequark> egg|work|egg: ha
<whitequark> I wondered who added these
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: essentially what was there before you came is largely astronomy or aerospace
<egg|work|egg> HD?
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: [HD] => Henry Draper
<egg|work|egg> PAL?
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: [PAL] => Propulseur d'Appoint à Liquides
<whitequark> SECAM?
<Qboid> whitequark: [SECAM] => SÉquentiel Couleur Avec Mémoire
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: yeah I added that one after adding PAL for maximum trolling
<whitequark> ...
<egg|work|egg> SÉCAM?
<egg|work|egg> huh
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: actually related to PAL, there's PAP
<egg|work|egg> PAP?
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: [PAP] => Propulseur d'Appoint à Poudre
<egg|work|egg> (liquid and solid boosters of Ariane 4 respectively)
<whitequark> analog delay lines...
<whitequark> PoP?
<Qboid> whitequark: [PoP] => Package-on-Package
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: but it says "d'appoint" which clarifies the fact that you don't actually need to have them on, whereas "booster" doesn't imply that
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: e.g. Ariane 5 doesn't have propulseurs d'appoint, it has an étage d'acceleration (an acceleration stage)
<egg|work|egg> because if you remove that it goes down rather than up :-p
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<egg|work|egg> !u 
<Qboid> U+007F ()
<egg|work|egg> bofh: have you found anything on observation 21 etc. (or have you heard from the cat?)
<egg|work|egg> bofh: staring at it I might be able to prove 3p+3 or something but that's impressively useless
<egg|work|egg> whereas my conjecture is p(maybe p+1) for directed rounding, p/3+1 for nearest :-p
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn armed_troop
* Qboid gives armed_troop a fractal
<egg|work|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a solipsistic trihexaflexagon
<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark an ocaml histomorphism
* UmbralRaptop stares at the helvetic corvid https://twitter.com/kevinschawinski/status/983346977827098624
<kmath> <✔kevinschawinski> Science progress https://t.co/WKRv4aF22e
<egg|work|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop a silver FIFO
<bofh> egg|work|egg: p/3+1? wat
<egg|work|egg> bofh dunno, but I can't get more than 17 1s after a round bit of 0 eggsperimentally
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn egg|work|egg
* Qboid gives egg|work|egg a ground batch file
<egg|work|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a clopen bugcheck
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<bofh> !wpn egg|work|egg
* Qboid gives egg|work|egg a sufficiently smart DIAC
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<egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a Python katar
<egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a furious discrete ≈ with a cryocooler attachment
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<kmath> <pkhuong> *Writes a sternly worded letter to people who explicitly applied and unapplied a linear transformation instead of scaling rows.*
<egg> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop a holmium batch file
<egg> !wpn котя
* Qboid gives котя a barbeque Burberry ネコバス
<egg> catbuses for the cat
<UmbralRaptop> recursion?
<iximeow> !wpn egg
* Qboid gives egg an upper triangular duck
<iximeow> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop an entrained moth
* UmbralRaptop eats the moth.
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn iximeow
* Qboid gives iximeow a quintic paint
<bofh> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop a public groupoid/otter hybrid
<bofh> !wpn iximeow
* Qboid gives iximeow a Bekenstein feathered serpentine
<UmbralRaptop> Ah, quetzalcoatl is trapped behind an event horizion. This explains everything!
<bofh> ROFL
<iximeow> lmao
<bofh> tangent: someone on my priv posted "Bekenstein and Lúthien" as a story idea
<iximeow> the C# repl bundled with mono crashes if you line wrap
<iximeow> oh my god
<UmbralRaptop> o_O
<iximeow> the reason doesn't make it any better
<iximeow> (they try to have an autocomplete dropdown for fields/methods/types, and if that would go past the right side of the terminal it tries to set position to an invalid position to draw it)
* iximeow mental note to report bug/PR after work
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<egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a chlorine class
<egg> bofh: yeah so I'm finding eggsperimentally 111111111111111 as the longest run of 1s after a 0 and 0000000000000000 as the longest run of 0s following a 1 as the round bit of a cube root of a binary64?
<egg> bofh: also eggsperimentally, my cbrt has a max error of at least 0,500077 ULPs
<egg> I feel like it should be possible to bound that fairly decently on the other side by taking another look at that error analysis
<egg> bofh: but as for the number of bit needed, it's weird that I'm not seeing anything with more than a third of the bits in the run?
<bofh> I mean intuitively after a bit of thought that makes sense, you have p bits of mantissa & it's a cube root, so p/3+1 is sensible even if it also seems a bit small.
<egg> hm I can find 1111111111111111 too, but that's just one more than the other
<egg> bofh: intuitively as in there's a 3 and a p, or do you have a vague direction for something that might conceivably yield a proof
<egg> bofh: https://twitter.com/werfb/status/982977986285760512 this is funnier if you add cyrillic (and you can also add hebrew and arabic)
<kmath> <werfb> Amazing. Evolution of the alphabet. https://t.co/KvJ11k4foY
* egg sad that no writing systems survive that derive from sumerian cuneiform :-/
<bofh> same tbh
<egg> bofh: it's weird that you can get runs of ~p 1s following a round bit of 1, but I can't find more than ~p/3 following a round bit of 0 though
* UmbralRaptop suspects that this would mean something like traditional vs simplified glyphs would exist in another writing system?
<egg> UmbralRaptop: I mean you have sumerian vs. akkadian cuneiform
<egg> if you wanted to have webpages in one of those you'd have to convey that via the lang tag,
<UmbralRaptop> egg: well, yes.
<egg> does your clay terminal support akkadian fonts
<UmbralRaptop> Or maybe you'd get something like how several very unrelated south Asian languages look alike? >_>
<UmbralRaptop> egg: how is ed(1) support on clay terminals?
* UmbralRaptop 🔪 SIMBAD for making it hard to find GJ 551's metallicity.
<UmbralRaptop> (And logg)
<egg> UmbralRaptop: dunno but clearly you use 𒊓𒀀𒊑𒊑 as a web browser
<UmbralRaptop> hah
<UmbralRaptop> … why does the first glyph look way different in channel than on that webpage?
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<egg> bofh: http://home.zcu.cz/~ksaskova/Sign_List.html !!! this site actually has the codepoints shown in two different fonts!
<egg> UmbralRaptop: ^ see how 𒊓 gets simplified
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<UmbralRaptop> !u 𒊓𒀀𒊑𒊑
<Qboid> U+12293 CUNEIFORM SIGN SA (𒊓)
<Qboid> U+12000 CUNEIFORM SIGN A (𒀀)
<Qboid> U+12291 CUNEIFORM SIGN RI (𒊑)
<Qboid> U+12291 CUNEIFORM SIGN RI (𒊑)
egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a terbium parrot
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a Bayesian pin with an iBod attachment
<SnoopJeDi> O_O
<bofh> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg an ordinal
<egg|cell|egg> Which one
<UmbralRaptop> Oh, hey. I found an error in a paper. >_<
<UmbralRaptop> There's a K0III star that has an identifier that belongs on an M6V star.
<bofh> oops
<UmbralRaptop> Red dwarf, orange giant, basically the same, right?
<bofh> my brain: do these 18 things that matter, preferably simultaneously. p.s. here's some Bonus Info Overload.
<bofh> (okay it's *usually* not that bad thanks to stimulants, but ugh)
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, I'd still like to give modafinil a shot for the same reason.
<SnoopJeDi> because yea wow relatable
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<bofh> SnoopJeDi: https://www.afinilexpress.com you're welcome
<awang> It'd be nice to have a form of English as ASTs
<awang> Stupid ambiguous parses are making wording things hard
<awang> Also, holy moly Word's line breaks for justified text
<awang> The space size is ridiculous
<kmath> <cathomas09> Graduate advisor just sent me this fun fact: "This week contains Friday APRIL 13. After this week, the next occurre… https://t.co/Hmpgy7xcaC
* UmbralRaptop 🔪 Proxima Centauri again.
* UmbralRaptop will apparently be calculating stellar parameters from photometry.
<bofh> ouch
<UmbralRaptop> It's only the second closest star to earth…