UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
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<kmath> <✔Alex_Parker> When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. ⏎ ⏎ When you have a space-qualified Hand-Actuated Manual… https://t.co/IhSSitJq5k
<raptop> !8 Steal the El Blanco telescope, and stick a clone of NEID on it?
<galois> raptop: no
<raptop> galois: I know that "the El" is silly
<raptop> Alternative title: Driving found to be relaxing
<raptop> IN MICE
<SilverFox> not in toronto ill tell you that much
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<_whitenotifier-31f> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3937/
<raptop> I mean, they only tested it on mice. Who knows with foxes?
<B787_300> raptop: NEID?
<raptop> B787_300: fancy high resolution spectrograph that's going on the WIYN
<B787_300> WIYN?
<raptop> That 3.5 m telescope on Kitt Peak with an angular dome
<B787_300> http://www.wiyn.org/About/overview.html damn the secondary is still 1.2 m in dia
<B787_300> oh nice that they have an official Zemax model, too bad i cant open it
<raptop> !acr -add:WIYN Wisconsin Indiana Yale NOAO (3.5 m telescope on Kitt Peak)
<galois> Definition added!
<raptop> !acr -add:NEID Pronounced "new-id". From the Tohono O'odham word "to see". Not actually an acronym.
<galois> Definition added!
<_whitenotifier-31f> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3937/
<_whitenotifier-31f> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2359: Bring the notation in elliptic_integrals.{hpp,cpp} in line with the papers - https://git.io/JeB2l
<mofh> egg|work|egg: yeah one moment
<egg|cell|egg> Mofh:. MEOW
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<egg|laptop|egg> !wpn
* galois gives egg|laptop|egg a fast pastie
<egg|laptop|egg> !wpn
* galois gives egg|laptop|egg a mace
* egg|laptop|egg stabs mofh with the mace
<egg|laptop|egg> (it's a very poor stabbing implement)
<mofh> yes it doesn't work very well,,,,,
<mofh> !wpn
* galois gives mofh an Einstein sharp doom
<mofh> anyway reading my chat no
<mofh> now*
<egg|laptop|egg> !wpn whitequark
* galois gives whitequark an asteroid with a blade attachment
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: the elliptic integrals with updated notation are checked in
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: should I templatize the BDJ computation so it only computes J if you need it?
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: alternatively you could make a pull request for that I guess
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<mofh> egg|work|egg: feel free to templatize it yourself, I just split the functions up and I actually wouldn't know how to do that the "properly C++" way >_<
<egg|cell|egg> Mofh: you could learn
<egg|cell|egg> Also you'll want to pick up the notation changes
<egg|cell|egg> Otherwise it will be hard to make sense of the code
<mofh> yeah, moment.
<raptop> !wpn -add:wpn baguette
<galois> Added wpn 'baguette'
<raptop> !wpn -add:wpn bagel
<galois> Added wpn 'bagel'
<raptop> !wpn -add:wpn crossant
<galois> Added wpn 'crossant'
<raptop> !wpn -add:wpn crescent
<galois> Added wpn 'crescent'
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* galois gives whitequark a cupric quadrilateral
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<mofh> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formules_trigonom%C3%A9triques_en_k%CF%80/7 this is, like, the most weirdly specific wikipedia page I've seen.
<galois> [WIKIPEDIA] Formules trigonométriques en kπ/7 | "Cet article présente des formules trigonométriques correspondant à des angles multiples de π/7.…"
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<egg|cell|egg> Mofh: meow
* egg|cell|egg pokes mofh with anbo
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<SilverFox> meme for yall
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn
* galois gives egg|work|egg a tube spherical lemma
* egg|work|egg pokes mofh with the lemma
<SilverFox> another one
<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* galois gives whitequark a krypton linear rocket
<egg|work|egg> !wpn -add:adj compact
<galois> Entry already exists!
<egg|work|egg> !wpn -add:wpn disc
<galois> Added wpn 'disc'
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<kmath> <tsplanets> For contrast, here are these moons to scale based on their actual sizes, not apparent sizes from Voyager 2. https://t.co/3lTgqjWjXE
<egg|work|egg> raptop: Shakespeare characters
<raptop> naming things is hard
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<egg|work|egg> whitequark: the two human languages! https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/1187011311454044162
<kmath> <whitequark> CEI/IEC https://t.co/zvdIm76mYz
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: in a similar vein, see the VIM https://www.bipm.org/utils/common/documents/jcgm/JCGM_200_2012.pdf
<raptop> whitequark: which organism has a method of reproduction most like that of the common compact disc?
<whitequark> uhm
* egg|work|egg slaps the misspelling of français with whatever !wpn is at hand https://twitter.com/poppy_haze/status/1187012885211422726
<kmath> <poppy_haze> francias et anglais, les deux langues humaines https://t.co/FH5QFaBokS
<egg|work|egg> !wpn
* galois gives egg|work|egg an arsenic fish tube
<egg|work|egg> that works
<whitequark> raptop: angiosperm plants?
<whitequark> grasping at straws really
<raptop> huh
<egg|work|egg> !wpn -add:wpn straw
<galois> Added wpn 'straw'
<whitequark> !wpn egg
* galois gives egg a katar with a cow attachment
<egg|work|egg> (that french translation probably needs some articles because French loves articles)
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: the three human languages can be ordered fr > en > ru by article density
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: sadly the UAI/IAU has been publishing resolutions in separate files lately https://www.iau.org/administration/resolutions/general_assemblies/
<SilverFox> this one about taylor approximations
<SnoopJeDi> raptop, IT'S SO CUTE ;_;
<SnoopJeDi> egg|work|egg, mofh are you aware of any Unicode guidance on what constitutes a "word" character? I noticed that the Python docs for the `re` module say that the default behavior of \w (i.e. without the ASCII or LOCALE flags) matches "Unicode word characters," but this doesn't seem to actually be a thing?
<SnoopJeDi> it looks like the regex engine the interpreter uses expands this test to alnum + '_'
<egg|work|egg> The Python docs are usually sloppy, but there are the Letter General Categories
<SnoopJeDi> yea, and alphanumeric is defined as a union of categories somewhere, right?
<raptop> !8 Is this going to involve bytes in some cases and eggstended grapheme clusters in others?
<galois> raptop: yes
<SilverFox> one about academnic grading
<egg|work|egg> SnoopJeDi, not that I know of
<SnoopJeDi> mkay, I figured this was sloppy docs, but wanted to check to be sure I wasn't missing some subtle thing that's defined in Unicode
<SnoopJeDi> cheers for the sanity check
<egg|work|egg> SnoopJeDi ah, http://unicode.org/reports/tr18/ might be relevant
<egg|work|egg> no mention of "alphanumeric" except in "ASCII alphanumerics" though
<SnoopJeDi> hmmm
<raptop> !u ç
<galois> ç: U+00e7 LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
<SnoopJeDi> it does mention \w though
<egg|work|egg> The class of <word_character> includes all the Alphabetic values from the Unicode character database, from UnicodeData.txt, plus the decimals (General_Category=Decimal_Number, or equivalently Numeric_Type=Decimal), and the U+200C ZERO WIDTH NON-JOINER and U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER (Join_Control=True). See also Annex C: Compatibility Properties.
<SnoopJeDi> aha!
<egg|work|egg> but that's one possible definition of word character
<egg|work|egg> To meet this requirement, an implementation shall extend the word boundary mechanism so that:
<SnoopJeDi> yea, but even then, I'd rather see the docs link to something actually useful to interpret what the hell it means
<egg|work|egg> but there's another definition
<SnoopJeDi> The one in the annex, you mean?
<egg|work|egg> > To meet this requirement, an implementation shall provide a mechanism for matching Unicode default word boundaries.
<egg|work|egg> The simple Level 1 support using simple <word_character> classes is only a very rough approximation of user word boundaries. A much better method takes into account more context than just a single pair of letters. A general algorithm can take care of character and word boundaries for most of the world's languages. For more information, see UAX #29,
<egg|work|egg> Unicode Text Segmentation [UAX29].
<egg|work|egg> SnoopJeDi: I mean that Unicode standard annexes generally give you a bunch of options for the way you define things
<SnoopJeDi> Yea, which is why I found "Matches Unicode word characters" very unspecific
<SnoopJeDi> since there's often more than one way to do it
<SnoopJeDi> egg|work|egg, the specific case was someone asking why \w doesn't match &
<egg|work|egg> which means that saying "we use the one that Unicode says" is not a definition unless you say things like "we conform to RL2.3 of UAX 29 version something"
<SnoopJeDi> and the pragmatic answer was "if that's considered a word character in your locale, use the LOCALE flag"
<SnoopJeDi> yea, exactly
<SnoopJeDi> okay, I'll open an issue on their tracker and link to TR18. Thank you very much, I appreciate the expert advice
<SnoopJeDi> I've only reached the level of understanding that I don't understand Unicode, but haven't yet mastered how to poke around the leviathan to find the parts that might be relevant to whatever question I'm interested in :)
<egg|work|egg> Note: I have not read UTS 29 recently
<egg|work|egg> You should
<egg|work|egg> you should make sure that they don't say something that implies & is not a word character ever
<SnoopJeDi> oh they definitely don't in the docs
<egg|work|egg> "they" being Unicode
<egg|work|egg> not Python, the Python docs are useless
<SnoopJeDi> an unfortunate truth
<egg|work|egg> but it's not very useful to file a bug asking them to do something against which Unicode should recommend
<egg|work|egg> so you should figure out what Unicode recommends
<SnoopJeDi> I've had this frustration enough recently that I finally got over the activation energy threshold to make an account
<SnoopJeDi> well
<SnoopJeDi> I'm just not sure if that actually comes from Unicode guidance of any description (it seems compatible with TR18's <word_character> here), or if it's just kinda...whatever
<egg|work|egg> well you can read the doc and figure that out
<SnoopJeDi> yep, cheers
<egg|work|egg> Po
<SnoopJeDi> (whether or not anyone with commit ACLs will care about this, OTOH...)
<egg|work|egg> Punctuation, other
<SnoopJeDi> yea, I told the user who brought up the question about that, it made them grumpy :)
<egg|work|egg> so that's not a <word_character> for an implementation conforming to RL1.4 Simple Word Boundaries
<SnoopJeDi> yea I'm guessing that's the one the original author of the comment meant, but will make sure I understand the alternatives before I submit the issue
<SnoopJeDi> raptop, do you hang out on that scicomm server? I didn't realize Mastodon had any communities dedicated to it, but that certainly piques my interest
<raptop> SnoopJeDi: not right now. I've been meaning to setup an account
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<SilverFox> Are there any car enthusiasts here?
<SnoopJeDi> egg|work|egg, hope I didn't say anything silly: https://bugs.python.org/issue38566
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* UmbralRaptop 's enthusiasm is pretty much restricted to driving manual these days
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<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: boring technicality: it doesn't define <word_character>, rather it says that an implementation meeting the RL1.4 (Simple Word Boundaries)
<egg|zzz|egg> requirement should look for boundaries between a <word_character> and a non-<word_character>, where the class <word_character> should satisfy the property described in RL1.4 (1).
<SnoopJeDi> ah, I see
<SnoopJeDi> egg|zzz|egg, do you grok what "extend the word boundary mechanism" is referring to? Any specific mechanism, or just [whatever the engine does for word boundaries]
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: (and not simply look for that, but also satisfy (2))
<egg|zzz|egg> the mechanism that finds \b
<SnoopJeDi> gotcha
<egg|zzz|egg> extend the "very simple mechanism for determining word boundaries" to quote 1.4
<SnoopJeDi> well, we'll see if anyone cares to either shed light on why its worded so weirdly, or greenlight writing it less vaguely
<SnoopJeDi> interestingly, the `regex` module supports the \p syntax!
<SnoopJeDi> which I'd never even seen before, but it's lovely
<SnoopJeDi> I guess I should have used the word "constrains" instead of "defines," but I'm glad to have not muffed up the broad point
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<_whitenotifier-31f> [Principia] TransparentElemental closed issue #2360: Check failed and game instantly closes, didn't happen yesterday - https://git.io/JeRtd
<_whitenotifier-31f> [Principia] TransparentElemental commented on issue #2360: Check failed and game instantly closes, didn't happen yesterday - https://git.io/Je08U
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: how did you manage to make our elliptic integrals work btw? they depend on the polynomial evaluators which pull in quite a lot of stuff
<SilverFox> is the whole algebraic substitutions thing I hear about the same as when we substitute units in physics?
<egg|zzz|egg> s/mofh/mofh_
<egg|zzz|egg> which mofh should I be pinging
<mofh> egg|laptop|egg: I spent a *lot* of time trimming down your polynomial evaluators to ones that wouldn't
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: ah
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: you're using it in C++, or rewriting in FORTRAN?
<egg|laptop|egg> !choose fix the sign bits|templatize to avoid computing J
<galois> egg|laptop|egg: Your options: fix the sign bits, templatize to avoid computing J. My choice: fix the sign bits
<egg|laptop|egg> ;choose fix the sign bits|templatize to avoid computing J
<kmath> egg|laptop|egg: fix the sign bits
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh choose fix the sign bits|templatize to avoid computing J
<egg|laptop|egg> stabbity choose fix the sign bits|templatize to avoid computing J
* UmbralRaptop doesn't know what J is, so I'll assume that for some reason Outlook is sending mangled smilies to Principia
<egg|laptop|egg> J is Fukushima’s associate incomplete elliptic integral of the third kind
<UmbralRaptop> aaaaa
<UmbralRaptop> fix the sign bits
<mofh> egg|laptop|egg: templatize (or just split up)
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh_: but the sign of 0 is wrong tho
<kmath> <capsule_169> "I was a mortal being once, too," the angel mused. ⏎ "A human?" I asked. She shook her head. ⏎ "No. What ruled the Eart… https://t.co/KsP9c2daJr
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh_: splitting it up would replicate a lot of messy code
<mofh> egg|laptop|egg: then that's a 1-line fix so fix that first :p
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: no, the sign of 0 would probably be done by making geometry::Sign know about the sign bit (ideally via intrinsics), so it's a bit tricky
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh_: how does the performance compare with whatever you were using earlier?
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<_whitenotifier-31f> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2362: Templatize on the need for the integral of the third kind - https://git.io/Je0Bw
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh_: ^
<egg|laptop|egg> or mofh
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<mofh> egg|laptop|egg: moment
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<mofh> halp while looking thru Principia/numerics I stumbled across your commit message of "They're good root finders, Brent" again and now I can't stop laughing.
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: they are
<kmath> <bofh453> Just saw "They're good root finders, Brent" in a git commit message and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
<mofh> I MEAN THEY ARE
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: but anyway, https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/2362/files should have the right effect
<egg|laptop|egg> mofh: did removing J actually matter though? I could imagine the compiler just throwing the computation out on its own
<mofh> egg|laptop|egg: not if I'm calling the function from outside the code, it has no way of knowing J won't be used
<egg|laptop|egg> if you're calling BDJ sure
<egg|laptop|egg> but if you're calling E or F
<egg|laptop|egg> and I guess with the intrinsics here and there it might be hard to eliminate things
<egg|laptop|egg> hm, it could figure that out
<egg|laptop|egg> so it's really not clear at all whether this should help, I should run some benchmarks
<egg|laptop|egg> !u ;
<galois> ;: U+037e GREEK QUESTION MARK
<SilverFox> ah yes, the good ol greek question mark
<SilverFox> would be hilarious to make a language that uses off-symbols instead of the normal ones
<SilverFox> does any language make use of the interrobang?