Thomas changed the topic of #kspmodding to: Welcome to #kspmodding - the channel for discussing, and learning about, modding Kerbal Space Program. Code of Conduct: https://git.io/vSQh6 | Always provide logs (do !support for help). | *** PSA: https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/index.html | <Red5> Guy was asked for a log file, he gave this link: http://pastebin.com/wfVarZPf
<Virindi>
confusingly the author of this plugin uses the words "momentum" and "velocity" interchangeably
<Virindi>
you have lines like
<Virindi>
v.momentum = vessel.angularVelocity;
<taniwha>
good grief
<xShadowx>
BUT ITS A STOCK BUG! :(
<xShadowx>
in other news, kerbals now drown......
<Virindi>
why, they are wearing space suits
<taniwha>
"BUT ITS[sic] A STOCK BUG" is the cry of lazy modders everywhere
<Virindi>
heh
<xShadowx>
uh......not when <5km for whatever reason the helmets are turned off atleast in my install
<Virindi>
texturereplacer
<xShadowx>
guessin that means a mod is turning em off :|
<Virindi>
or kis I guess
<Virindi>
texturereplacer and kis both remove helmets
* taniwha
wonders what Minmus's atomic number is ;)
<xShadowx>
been so long since i used stock, i never noticed it was a mod doing it ahah
<Virindi>
anyway disallowing kerbals from swimming would not be Fun(tm)
<Virindi>
even if they are wearing an unsealed, heavy space suit
<xShadowx>
i count 11 electrons
<Virindi>
I mean think about it this way
<Virindi>
if kerbals couldn't swim in a spacesuit
<xShadowx>
oh they can swim for 30 seconds of holding breath
<Virindi>
shouldn't they be allowed to remove the spacesuit before getting out of the pod
<Virindi>
it is just penalizing the player for the fact that you have not implemented the ability to change out of your spacesuit
<Virindi>
that is not enjoyable and will feel asshole
<xShadowx>
they can swim for 30 sec, and thats just head under water time
<taniwha>
is that all?
<Virindi>
why should a kerbal be unable to swim like a human
<taniwha>
iirc, the record is 4m
<xShadowx>
taniwha: il let progeny genes decide time later :P
<Virindi>
yes and if you aren't moving much you can hold your breath longer
<xShadowx>
kerbals are smaller than people, store less air :P you can swim along surface
<xShadowx>
if you wanna hate me, bitch that i added stamina >:)
<Virindi>
so if you are floating you do not use air
<Virindi>
I mean, you can't drown while just swimming forward on the surface?
<xShadowx>
if you're floating or swimming on surface, you can breathe atmosphere
<xShadowx>
gotta have head below water and dive down to drown :P
<Virindi>
so it's just for if you eva from a submerged vessel or splash into the water at high speed propelling you down a lot below the surface
<xShadowx>
or swim down
<Virindi>
you can swim down?
<Virindi>
how
<xShadowx>
by having kerbals that dont use magical styrofoam bouyancy
<Virindi>
you mean using a swimming control which does not exist? :P
<xShadowx>
fun fact - females when came out sunk not float ;P
<Virindi>
you mean squad females? because there have been females in my games since like <0.24 :P
<xShadowx>
atleast you coud be assured they were real eh
<xShadowx>
:3
<Virindi>
texturereplacer'd ones also didn't have broken eye level.
<taniwha>
KerbalStats did gender back in Oct 2014
<taniwha>
don't remember what KSP version that was, though
<taniwha>
man, that's a bug I need to fix
<taniwha>
build a vessel with a pad, and EL's gui "breaks"
<taniwha>
it doesn't really break, it just switches to the new pad so it looks like it broke
Technicalfool has joined #kspmodding
<Virindi>
bam
<Virindi>
saved angularmomentum and then calculated the new velocity by diving by new moi
<Virindi>
and joints restore to stretched state
<taniwha>
:)
<Virindi>
unfortunately that means that if you have an old save, it has angular velocity saved in the save file, I guess it should convert it.
<Virindi>
but we can't know the actual momentum at save if it got put on rails first
<taniwha>
no if
<taniwha>
saving vessels puts them on rails
<Virindi>
yeah I was just guessing that was the case
<taniwha>
not worth worrying about beyond adding a disclaimer
<taniwha>
you know something really frustrating?
<taniwha>
I keep forgetting about Aim Camera when I'm trying to get a reasonable view of part of my ship
<taniwha>
why it's frustrating: I added the feature :P
<taniwha>
specifically for that purpose :P
<Virindi>
when I first saw the "aim camera" feature I was like ho ho another crappy stock feature, but about 5 minutes later I was like "damnit I can't maneuver my camera so I can see the inside of this bay damnit....OH"
<Virindi>
so thanks :)
<taniwha>
:)
<Virindi>
so normally nobody cares about save compat? normally what I would do is make a second real momentum field and have a conversion function if the old momentum field is detected
<Virindi>
I have huge pieces of software where half of the code is converting legacy configuration and data like that
<xShadowx>
Virindi: could add a flag to save with the vessel, converted = false, then check it on vessel going off rails, convert, set true, bit of an ugly bandaid, imo dont bother, just sayin you could ;3
<Virindi>
I have a package where I completely changed the profile file format 4 times, and completely changed the network protocol more than that, yet it was seamless to users
* xShadowx
finishes reading backlog
<xShadowx>
ya dont worry about save compat, just warn :P
<taniwha>
Virindi: you're going from broken behavior to non-broken behavior
<taniwha>
nothing to preserve
<Virindi>
I suppose
<Virindi>
I mean we have "some" information and we could make a probably close guess
<xShadowx>
nahhh :)
<Virindi>
I shouldn't have bothered with this, the author will probably just ignore my pull request like when I spent 4 days fixing throughtheeyes
<xShadowx>
assembly.GetTypes() vs GetExportedTypes() looks like get all types vs get public types?
<Virindi>
fixing something the author can't or won't fix is a hopeless battle, because they feel insulted when you PR them
<xShadowx>
Virindi: as long as you keep a copy so i can get the fixed version :P
<taniwha>
Virindi: not necessarily
<taniwha>
worth a shot
<xShadowx>
.most ksp authors are nice enough to accept help when the work is already done + not broken
<Virindi>
wait I thought ksp didn't have a max angular velocity anymore
<Virindi>
only that the vessel won't restore to max
<Virindi>
like
<Virindi>
if angular velocity is 50, it will restore to 42 (ish)
<Virindi>
but 42 will restore to 42
<Virindi>
anything below 42 restores to what it was
<Virindi>
because clearly
<Virindi>
if there is a max velocity, I would have to exceed it with unstretched parts to have the same angular momentum as the version with stretched parts.
<xShadowx>
no field to change to replace the 50?:|
<Virindi>
I am willing to accept that
<Virindi>
there probably is.
<taniwha>
Virindi: it's a unity thing
<taniwha>
maybe just push it higher
<taniwha>
(there's a var somewhere)
<taniwha>
ferram4_: do you remember what it was?
<ferram4_>
I know what you're talking about, hold on.
<Virindi>
I see RigidBody.maxAngularVelocity
<ferram4_>
Yeah, that would be it.
<Virindi>
I guess I can temporarily increase that, for one frame
<taniwha>
vessel spawned a fair bit higher than it should have
<Virindi>
did you accidentally drop the survey stake rather than hammering it in :P
<Virindi>
I've done that...uh...
<Virindi>
at first I didn't realize you had to ATTACH it to the surface
<Virindi>
my ships were spawning weird and exploding
<Virindi>
and I had no idea why
<taniwha>
no, I think it's a problem with bounding box calculations
<Virindi>
that was before you had to use the hammer
<Virindi>
the survey stake really is awesome though, I know I said that but it is :)
* Virindi
flashes back to trying to spawn a plane on the "runway" part and it exploding, repeatedly
<Virindi>
of course if I change max angular I do have to wait for the joints to stretch out a bit
<Virindi>
:\
<Virindi>
10 ticks worked perfectly :)
<taniwha>
max should probably be 1e38
<Virindi>
might be different for different ships
<Virindi>
if joint strain has to propagate through a stack
<taniwha>
really, max should be set to insanely high and left there
<Virindi>
restoration after timewarp is great now but I seem to have loss of velocity after load
<Virindi>
whoa whoa whoa
<Virindi>
this thing saves its per-save info in the gamedata directory?!
<Virindi>
what the @#$%
<Virindi>
to figure out what to load it loads every file named after the current save, then looks for the one with the newest game time
<Virindi>
what. the. fuck.
<taniwha>
Scenario to the rescue
<Virindi>
huh
<taniwha>
that's how EL, many other mods, and Squad do it
<Virindi>
I don't understand this. If I quicksave then don't save, kill the game, and reload the persistent save it will use the values from the quicksave
<taniwha>
for mods, first Kethane (Majiir), then EL, then others followed
<taniwha>
quicksave saves to persistent too
<Virindi>
okay, then if I make a second quicksave and load the first one
<Virindi>
:P
<taniwha>
yeah, it does sound broken
<taniwha>
and may be why I just had a lot of... fun with my base
<Virindi>
do you have PR running
<taniwha>
yes
<taniwha>
however, I managed to save the situation using timewarp (a LOT) to stabilize things to give me time to bring up the PAWS and retract panels and set autostruts
<Virindi>
gooffrails logic is not applied when vessel situation is landed.
<Virindi>
if you are talking about a surface base
<taniwha>
I always read that as goof-rails
<Virindi>
gooff
<Virindi>
with two "f" :)
<taniwha>
GoOff :)
<taniwha>
yes, but...
<Virindi>
is that like "expertsexchange"
<taniwha>
yeah
<Virindi>
anyway fucky save files are not the cause of this :(
<Virindi>
back to debugging
<Virindi>
this mod has been disappointing me at every turn
<Virindi>
the vessel moi seems weird just after load
<Virindi>
I guess it has to settle too
<Virindi>
yeah even when I don't do anything the MOI x goes from +6 in the first frame, to +0.4, to +1
<Virindi>
so I have to move it forward 2 frames again, sheesh
<Virindi>
woot
<xShadowx>
Virindi: how long til a new mod to remake PR correctly will be the answer i wonder :|
<xShadowx>
i wonder if any issue with the mods who pause the game / change warp steps
<Virindi>
but you should be able to spin the crap out of your ship then timewarp and marvel at the fact that you don't deorbit when you turn off timewarp
<xShadowx>
i forgot the name of that one time mod, let you 'pause' but was really just 0 timewarp
<xShadowx>
and yay :D
<Virindi>
dunno if I want to bother fixing the broken save thing, the guy probably won't accept that
<Virindi>
that is just a recipe for getting him more annoyed at the pull
<xShadowx>
im tyempted to not use the mod due to that - thats shit -.-
<xShadowx>
scenariomodule is so simple to use
<xShadowx>
taniwha: accually, in this case, wouldnt vesselmodule be the correct way to go?o.O
<Virindi>
yeah it makes more sense to assign something into the vessel if that is possible
<taniwha>
probably
<xShadowx>
one per vessel, saves with it, no fetching data based on vessel
<taniwha>
depends on what's being saved
<xShadowx>
true heh
<taniwha>
but yes, tool for the job
<xShadowx>
my only gripe with vesselmodule, asteroids get it too lol
<Virindi>
his whole system for caching vessel data I don't particularly want to mess with
<xShadowx>
i mean i know theyre vessels, but like should be a flag to exclude em! :P
<Virindi>
I mean once again it is the situation where I am building a pull request and if it were my mod I would change freaking everything
<Virindi>
I should just start forking mods and get everyone pissed at me
<taniwha>
xShadowx: no, they are vessels
<xShadowx>
Virindi: do as much or little as you feel like - just keep it a seperate PR from the fixes though heh
<taniwha>
same PR is fine, so long as it's a separate git commit
<taniwha>
same PR is probably required as they'd be intertwined
<Virindi>
meh I wanted to get rotation and orbits working first
<Virindi>
so it's not really intertwined
<xShadowx>
eh (noob with github) wouldnt one see it being too comlex a PR / hate the save changes and decline whole thing due to it? or.....
<taniwha>
Virindi: but the saved data will depend on your changes if you added or removed anything
<Virindi>
I reused his "momentum" variable, which before pointed to angular velocity, and now I assign angular momentum into it.
<taniwha>
xShadowx: there's always forking
<Virindi>
I didn't change the save/load at all.
<xShadowx>
^.^
<taniwha>
fair enough
<xShadowx>
Virindi: first tests with 30 seconds of effort are <3
* xShadowx
pays in cookies
<Virindi>
for full effect try the same thing with the old version with the ksp vanilla bug in it
<Virindi>
:D
<xShadowx>
i was gonna say, when you PR it "fixed stock bug" :P
<taniwha>
or more likely to pass muster with a grumpy modder "worked around stock bug" (quotes included)
<Virindi>
see, I could have freaking spent the last two days working on my mfd software instead
* Virindi
grumbles
<Virindi>
this was a really long frustrating fix
<xShadowx>
but totally worth it <3
<Virindi>
something else I haven't tested yet: crossing SOIs
<Virindi>
including disabling warp right at the soi
<Virindi>
I think I might just do the testing tomorrow, there is hours of testing I'd want to do before I made it an actual pull
<taniwha>
Virindi: yeah, don't spend all your time on the one thing
<xShadowx>
^
<xShadowx>
i hop between like 20 things x.x
<Virindi>
pfft that's how I operate, 100% on for 3 or 4 days
<Virindi>
if a project takes more than a month I lose interest and have to come back to it later
<taniwha>
same, thus my advice :/
<xShadowx>
ya uh........how many years later......still on that silly modding ksp project :P
<xShadowx>
(me i mean)
<xShadowx>
i honestly think ksp hit just the right note, to never be a completable game
<Virindi>
well when I maintain stuff for years typically I will work on it 24/7 for a week, then here and there for a month, then not at all for 11 months unless something breaks
<xShadowx>
always some idea to add :D
<Virindi>
open world games are the best :P
<xShadowx>
unless its minecrap
<Virindi>
last fall I went on vacation to vermont, in the middle of the woods in a cabin with internet access and a wood stove you have to feed every 10 minutes....I worked 24/7 for a week and a half on my asheron's call system...2 weeks before they declared the game was shutting down
<taniwha>
[ERR 12:34:24.155] Module RefuelingPump threw during OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
<taniwha>
*sigh*
<taniwha>
YABTF
<Virindi>
yabtf?
<xShadowx>
yet another bug to find?
<Virindi>
ah
<taniwha>
fix
<xShadowx>
eh i was close :P
<Virindi>
what is RefuelingPump part of?
<xShadowx>
MFT
<taniwha>
yeah
<xShadowx>
it goes on clamps, keeps tanks full til unclamp
<Virindi>
oh stock doesn't do that?
<Virindi>
hah
<xShadowx>
this surprises you?
<Virindi>
thought stock did that.
<taniwha>
does for EC
<taniwha>
I think
<Virindi>
wait hold on, what stops it from giving you free fuel if you build a ship which is just a tank with a launch clamp on it, with EPL, you thought of that I bet :)
<xShadowx>
i hate how some mods and stock, treat EC diff from fuel and diff from another resource
<xShadowx>
everything should just see <resource>
<taniwha>
looks like I need to check if vessel is null
<taniwha>
Virindi: thus the NRE
<taniwha>
:)
<taniwha>
(and yes, I thought of it, tested it, fixed it)
<taniwha>
now have an NRE to fix
<xShadowx>
wouldnt just clamp+tank be as any other vessel?
<Virindi>
I figured he would check to see if it was landed at ksc
<xShadowx>
id have thought just check if clamp is clamped to somethin o.O
<taniwha>
sorry, should have fixed the whitespace
<Virindi>
Vessel.LandedInKSC
<taniwha>
xShadowx: considering EL builds clamps wherever you want them, checking for KSC is needed
<Virindi>
heh
<taniwha>
Virindi: the check is old
<taniwha>
0.24 or so
<taniwha>
nice, I'll use that :)
<xShadowx>
ahh and if not runway/pad, clamps pump from base?:P
<taniwha>
just don't pump
<Virindi>
LandedInKSC just checks if the landed location string contains "KSC", "LaunchPad", or "Runway"
<taniwha>
maybe when EL does PQSCity bases
<Virindi>
if you land on any object does landedAt contain the name of that? like if I landed on a kerbinside runway, or on an anomaly, would it have the object name of that static object
<taniwha>
I don't know
<taniwha>
there, all avenues for an NRE blocked
<taniwha>
4h and it will be time to take 13 tourists home
<taniwha>
(40d space camp)
<taniwha>
I'm looking forward to getting my base foundation built
<taniwha>
this worrying wobble should go away
<Virindi>
I really want to make a mod that allows you to build static bases, like kerbinside runways, but where you land a construction ship and build it
<Virindi>
I am really scared to look at the kerbal konstructs code though
<Virindi>
I fear I would have a stroke
<taniwha>
hmm, stakes fell over
<taniwha>
but did not explode
<taniwha>
(yay)
<Virindi>
not hammered!!111one
<taniwha>
I did, though :/
<taniwha>
btw, did you find EL's easter eggs? :)
<Virindi>
probably not
<taniwha>
not sure the one on the stake can be found easily any more, but the one on the mallet can
<Virindi>
but maybe, dunno, I have been playing with it for years and if something seemed funny for a second I just would have not committed that to memory
<Virindi>
yeah I read the descriptions
<taniwha>
no, in-flight
<Virindi>
oh
<Virindi>
I've never used the mallet
<Virindi>
haven't built a surface base since it was required
* Virindi
starts launching the game dir with all the mods in it, see you in an hour
<taniwha>
stupid kerbal sliding mechanic
<Virindi>
?
<Virindi>
you mean the lack of static friction for any grounded object? :P
<Virindi>
every object in the game slides slowly
<taniwha>
start sliding down a hill, just can't stop
<Virindi>
oh ragdoll
<taniwha>
no, not ragdoll
<taniwha>
but controls get locked out anyway
<Virindi>
the kerbal may still be in ragdoll state.
<Virindi>
I know what you mean though
<taniwha>
no, bound state
<taniwha>
(bound as in jump)
<Virindi>
like when you bump your head on something and just fall with controls locked
<Virindi>
whaa
<Virindi>
really, that is strange
<taniwha>
happens on low-grav worlds
<Virindi>
yes I know
<Virindi>
I mean, I know bound state only occurs in low gravity
<taniwha>
bound on a hill, never land according to the game
<Virindi>
oh
<Virindi>
like bounding downhill and you step off and it is waiting to land
<taniwha>
ah, well, I know how to hack KerbalFSM
<taniwha>
including hacking delegates }:>
<Virindi>
I wrote all the code for you already :P
<taniwha>
wow, packed just enough survey stakes
<Virindi>
so bound should have a timeout I guess, weird, I didn't notice that happening in my testing
<Virindi>
does it depend on arcade/fps setting
<Virindi>
because I lock it to arcade controls in first person mode
<Virindi>
except when you are pressing the back key
<taniwha>
I don't remember
<taniwha>
I'd need to reinvestigate
<Virindi>
funny thing, before I started hacking kerbaleva I didn't even realize there were two modes. I bet 99.9% of players don't know.
<Virindi>
it's not very intuitive
<taniwha>
ok, verified I've actually nailed these stakes to the ground
<taniwha>
I suspect KIS isn't restoring the connection when loading
<taniwha>
I never found how to get the other (didn't really look, though)
<Virindi>
hit the alt key
<Virindi>
or whatever mod key of your choice :)
<Virindi>
switches your kerbal between left key moving left, or left key turning left
<taniwha>
oh, yeah, I've had that
<Virindi>
I literally only discovered that by trying to understand the behavior while hacking it
<Virindi>
"wait why the hell it is working differently now"
<Virindi>
the "EL Items" build category is useless btw
<taniwha>
I know
<Virindi>
it is just crammed with every pod that is installed because they are all a productivity center
<taniwha>
I think I'll need to make a tag and add a part pre-parser (like I did for recipes)
<Virindi>
pointy end into eyes
<taniwha>
anyway, put a kerbal on the launchpad with a mallet
<Virindi>
doh I am on the runway
<taniwha>
if you play around enough, you'll find the easter egg :)
<Virindi>
the landing problem might not even be in kerbaleva who knows
<taniwha>
it is
<Virindi>
now you've made me want to go fix it though, sometime
<taniwha>
there's a ground normal check
<taniwha>
hmm, there seems to be a problem with +X bounds stakes
<taniwha>
mine got ignored
<taniwha>
ok, this is weird. -Y was used for +X?!?
<Virindi>
bound land
<Virindi>
oh god
<Virindi>
you have to be within x height from surface for 0.1 seconds
<taniwha>
and that can't happen on steep surfaces
<Virindi>
yeah that totally makes sense I thought it was using the same grounded code as everything else but no, I guess because you are "already grounded"
<taniwha>
ok, good news: collider bounding boxes use world coordinates
<taniwha>
I think
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<Virindi>
the problem really is that GetheightFromSurface() only shoots a ray downward
<Virindi>
but that is not really your height from the surface when there is a slope
<taniwha>
yeah
<taniwha>
need to take into account the size and shape of the collider
<Virindi>
well your distance to the surface should really be measured along the surface normal, but there could be multiple of them
<taniwha>
there's a mod for seeing the colliders in-game
<Virindi>
I had EXACTLY this problem with my asheron's call plugin heh
<taniwha>
Virindi: EL (now stock, I snuck it in) uses the 4 corners of the launch clamp base to check the distance to ground and uses the minimum
<Virindi>
in asheron's call, you can spawn a creature that is your ally. it spawns in front of you, but if you are facing up a slope it spawns on that slope...only if that is within some maximum height deviation of you
<Virindi>
but that takes into account every polygon in the area, it isn't just the ground
<Virindi>
well, not just the one polygon under you
<taniwha>
even properly taking into account the one polygon under the kerbal's center would make a huge difference
<Virindi>
yeah
<taniwha>
could even do a few points around the kerbal
<taniwha>
or even, maybe, detect if the collider is touching the ground!
<taniwha>
(scary thought:P)
<Virindi>
yes given the size of kerbals vs. the size of terrain polygons one could just check your polygon, plus all adjacent polygons
<Virindi>
maybe there are some tiny polygons but I haven't seen them
<taniwha>
if they're tiny, they're not worth worrying about
<taniwha>
at this stage, anyway
<Virindi>
I bet the idea was to give your kerbal more time in the "controllable" state than just touching
<Virindi>
and/or be more robust if like the corner of a collision object was bouncing off a poly
<Virindi>
I am totally not familiar with how unity colliders work
<Virindi>
this one kinda falls under the adage "if you find a fence in the middle of the road, don't remove it until you know why it was there"
<taniwha>
this one is to lock out controls while bounding
<taniwha>
so you don't use RCS while walking
<taniwha>
(even if RCS is on)
<Virindi>
no I mean why not just use the collider like you suggest.
<taniwha>
oh, because KerbalEVA is ancient and crusty
<Virindi>
when I rewrote those states I changed how rcs works when landed though :D
<Virindi>
I made rcs take precedence over being landed, that is, you can take off with rcs while landed without jumping, it just uses rcs controls if rcs is on
<taniwha>
you can anyway
<Virindi>
yeah but you can't do anything but that I don't think
<Virindi>
not that there are many options
<taniwha>
I think you can do down, too
<taniwha>
but yeah, not lateral
<Virindi>
but I totally overwrote the rcs controls so I had to null out the attempted walk movement when rcs enabled
<taniwha>
Virindi: btw, you know that using methodinfo.Invoke is really slow, right? (and how to fix it)
<Virindi>
no, I didn't know it was slower than some other option
<Virindi>
I assume then creating a delegate is the answer
<taniwha>
use the methodinfo to create a delegate
<taniwha>
read about it a couple of months ago when researching how to create delegates using reflection
<Virindi>
I figured it would be slightly slower but not insane
<Virindi>
so I didn't bother to change them to delegates
<taniwha>
apparently, it's quite significant
<Virindi>
I bet it constructs a new delegate everytime
<taniwha>
oh, and of course, unbound delegates are best
<taniwha>
apparently, you can use them with obj.delegate(...)
<taniwha>
haven't had time to play with that one yet
<Virindi>
I haven't ever used them
<Virindi>
I do know though that creating a delegate is costly, heh
<taniwha>
one bit of fun I had recently
<taniwha>
needed a delegate for a callback on a particular object, but that object didn't have the method I needed. an extension method worked :)
<Virindi>
had a performance problem once, after much profiling it came down to delegates being created every frame then thrown away
<Virindi>
cached them and magic, problem solved
<taniwha>
yeah
<Virindi>
thanks a LOT, you're making more and more things I have to go back and change :P
<taniwha>
hehe
<taniwha>
not like I'm making you change them, though
<Virindi>
yes you are
<Virindi>
one cannot just leave inefficient code around
<taniwha>
no, I'm just waving them past your face. you're the one grabbing them :)
<taniwha>
(but I commend your attitude)
<taniwha>
and I have a lot of .Invoke to clean up, too :/
<Virindi>
all the crazy kids these days are marking all their stuff "dynamic", I would have figured MS would go out of their way to make invoke work in a way that would be fast-ish and mono would have copied it
<taniwha>
what for? gotta slow down those fast computers
<Virindi>
get off my damn lawn, javascript kiddies
<taniwha>
_lines[i] = _objects[i].AddComponent< LineRenderer >() as LineRenderer;
<taniwha>
isn't that redundant?
<taniwha>
(the "as LineRenderer")
<Virindi>
T AddComponent<T>()
<Virindi>
yes
<Virindi>
however I googled addcomponent
<taniwha>
suspenders, belt, duct tape, I guess
<Virindi>
and the unity documentation example has that same as
<Virindi>
that is probably where it came from
<taniwha>
yeah
<taniwha>
unity docs are sometimes rather... lacking
<xShadowx>
ILSpy :D
<xShadowx>
but ya i see T stuff<T>() use with stuff<T>() as whatever a lot at work
<blowfish>
doesn't work for Unity
<blowfish>
UnityEngine.dll is mostly just wrappers around native code that exists in the executable
<xShadowx>
does for unityengine.dll ;3
<xShadowx>
ah
<taniwha>
thus why everything is a property :/
<blowfish>
believe me, I've tried
<Virindi>
mehh, ida is your friend
<Virindi>
assembly is basically IL but with fewer names and less type information :P
<taniwha>
Virindi: ida = interactive disassembler?
<Virindi>
yes
<taniwha>
I used that a /lot/ back in the mid 90s
<taniwha>
used it to RE my pc's bios :)
<Virindi>
awesome
<taniwha>
wrote an IDE driver
<taniwha>
and even floppy driver
<taniwha>
(study code, study Ralph Brown's Interrupt List, think a lot)
<Virindi>
that was just 99% standard award or phoenix or whatever back then wasn't it
<taniwha>
don't remember what mine was, but it was neither, I think
<taniwha>
(Total Peripherals 386-dx33)
<Virindi>
intel has/had one too for intel branded boards and it is freaking terrible
<Virindi>
I just don't recall boards having a lot of bloat options back in the 386 days
<taniwha>
they didn't
<taniwha>
8s from ctrl-alt-del to the dos command prompt
<Virindi>
8 seconds??? my 386 took more like 8 MINUTES to load stuff
<Virindi>
my dad set all that crap up though, I was a little kid, if I did it now I would have a super minimal system
<taniwha>
I also had something like 600kB free memory in DOS
<taniwha>
maybe more
<xShadowx>
we'll never need more than 640k of memory :)
<Virindi>
no, 640k ought to be enough for NORMAL people
<Virindi>
mainframes had way more memory than that for decades before
<taniwha>
really, 640k /was/ enough
<Virindi>
gates clearly was picturing lusers running a word processor
<Virindi>
yeah 640k would be fine for a word processor if you remove all the bloat :D
<xShadowx>
np++ using 16mb atm
<Virindi>
probably lots of tabs with syntax highlighting
<xShadowx>
3 tabs
<taniwha>
Virindi: and then throw in DJGPP :)
<Virindi>
syntax highlighting has to pull in a lot of crap
<taniwha>
not really
<Virindi>
dunno what np++ does but visual studio is contextual
<Virindi>
as in
<taniwha>
I wrote my own multi-window editor with syntax highlighting for multiple languages
<Virindi>
structs are different colored from classes
<taniwha>
about 900kB uncompressed
<Virindi>
even if it is declared in some other file
<Virindi>
somewhere
<Virindi>
who the heck knows where
<Virindi>
so just to know the color of a type, visual studio needs a library of every type in every referenced assembly and every type in your project
<Virindi>
or a cache thereof
<Virindi>
so it depends on sophistication level really :P
<Virindi>
pastebin style sites do it in a tiny js library
<Virindi>
kinda sorta parse the language and if this looks like a type it is type colored
<taniwha>
3.2MB source
<taniwha>
oh, for the git tree
<taniwha>
mind you, no real revisions
<taniwha>
(just those from cvs2svn as used for cvs to git)
<taniwha>
2.6M
<taniwha>
and that includes two UIs (one text, one graphics)
<taniwha>
used allegro for graphics
<Virindi>
highlight.js minimized is 56320 bytes
<taniwha>
hmm, don't know how big the highlighters are, as the code is generated
<taniwha>
come to think of it, other than the c++ side of things (would need some hacking), might be able to get them to build using flex
<Virindi>
get what to build
<taniwha>
my syntax highlighters
<Virindi>
your library?
<Virindi>
ah
<taniwha>
the editor would be a lot more work, though
<taniwha>
library uses low-level asm
<taniwha>
(for text buffer access and mouse handling)
<taniwha>
c++ for everything else
<Virindi>
a lot of "syntax highlighters" aren't even built on a real lexer
<taniwha>
mine were
<Virindi>
I gathered that :)
<taniwha>
wow, over 40kLoC for my editor including UI lib
<taniwha>
(.h, .cc, .S)
<taniwha>
my video card was paradise
<Virindi>
40k, that's not bad
<taniwha>
about 16k for the editor itself
<Virindi>
my asheron's call stuff repo is 568,253 sloc in cs, 61,073 in cpp :)
<Virindi>
that's all code written by me
<taniwha>
10k for EL
<taniwha>
I don't think much of skykooler's code remains
<taniwha>
but have toolbar and KAC stuff in there
<Virindi>
I wrote a complete gui widgets library, that draws on directx surfaces, then the combat macro is like 100k lines by itself
<Virindi>
maybe 200
<Virindi>
there are I think 4 or maybe 5 different vm bytecode interpreters heh
<Virindi>
stuff just gets out of control when you spend 15 years tinkering with a game
<taniwha>
yeah
<Virindi>
I actually wrote my own c# profiler because all the free ones don't work well when the host process is native and merely loading .net as com interop libraries :D
<Virindi>
got to give those ungrateful users an extra 3fps.
<Virindi>
ksp modding is much more art centric
<taniwha>
oh, man. I can't believe how hard I made things for myself when I did EL's survey system
<Virindi>
no problem, now's your chance to fix it!
<taniwha>
why oh why did I not create a special gameobject+component that acts as a virtual pad
<taniwha>
Virindi: indeed
<taniwha>
(actually, I think I know why: I didn't know enough about unity game objects and components
<taniwha>
Aug 2014
<taniwha>
yeah, I have learned a LOT since
<Virindi>
I bet most of my ksp code falls under a similar category, and will for some time
<taniwha>
I have since discovered that us modders have gone about click-through all wrong
<taniwha>
hacking input locks was not the way to fix things, but just using event.Use()
<Virindi>
click-through? as in capturing mouse clicks on a window so you don't hit the thing behind it?
<Virindi>
ah
<taniwha>
however, I suspect that won't help with the mix of IMGUI (OnGUI) and unity's new UI
<Virindi>
so if you call Use() on the key binding it eats it?
<Virindi>
wouldn't that only work if your update was installed before the game's
<taniwha>
yeah, you eat the event
<Virindi>
how do you enforce order
<taniwha>
if every mod using OnGUI ensured mouse clicks got Use()ed if the click was in their windows, it would go a long way to improving things
<taniwha>
however, I plan on moving EL's gui to the new system (but from code: ouch)
<Virindi>
I am just thinking about it in terms of keyboard hotkeys since that is mostly what I have used, so like, if I hit some key and everyone is watching for it in their Update(), the game will get it first
<Virindi>
then if the game doesn't eat it, mods will start to get it
<taniwha>
yeah, hot-keys are a problem
<taniwha>
and, tbh, I hate them
<taniwha>
eg, AFBW uses shift-L as it's hot key
<taniwha>
so turning on a kerbal's lights while RCSing up causes the window to toggle :P
<xShadowx>
a single hotkey menu that accepts easily adding more by calling a function would be nice >.<
<Virindi>
I noted that throughtheeyes disables the ability to un-iva by, uh, unbinding the key for it. I had to upgrade that code so I kept doing things the same way but it screamed "this is the wrong way" to me
<Virindi>
I don't know enough about input locks to know if I could use that or what
<Virindi>
btw, does EL have an api for the build ui? could I call something like someELpad.setvesseltobuild(somevesseltemplate); someELPad.startbuilding();
<taniwha>
no, but that's because it's /just/ the build ui :)
<Virindi>
it would be cool to support building stuff on EL pads on my iva monitor software
<Virindi>
someday
<taniwha>
you want ExSurveyStation.control or ExLaunchPad.control, which is ExBuildControl
<taniwha>
that does have an api
<Virindi>
I just meant can I duplicate what the player can do using the ui, in code, without hax
<taniwha>
ie, find the "pad" component (actually, IBuilder)
<taniwha>
both ExSurveyStation and ExLaunchpad implement IBuilder
<Virindi>
ooh even stuff like a "CostReport" type
<taniwha>
that's in Recipes
<Virindi>
haha abusing enumerator state machines
<taniwha>
the GUI/BuildWindow.cs is just presentation
<Virindi>
I read some scathing article on msdn once about how abusing enumerator state machines was evil and you should never do it
<taniwha>
(yeah, I did a bit of MVC)
<Virindi>
I was like "WHO CARES"
<taniwha>
tool for the job, tool for the job :)
<taniwha>
Virindi: anyway, yes, you should be able to do an RPM interface to EL
<Virindi>
yeah this looks good
<Virindi>
want to rewrite mechjeb's maneuver planner? :D
* taniwha
runs for the hills
<Virindi>
btw minor annoyance: when you start a brand new game, the first time you open the vab the EPL build cost window pops open (once you place a part), it should default to closed
<taniwha>
better idea: option in the new game settings :)
<Virindi>
well it remembers your closed/open status right
<Virindi>
but
<Virindi>
when you have a brand new game there is little chance you care about it for your very first vessel, and it is bad policy for mods to open windows by default because if everyone did that the screen would be overrun
<Virindi>
I don't have a problem with it staying open if I open it then leave and reenter the vab later
<Virindi>
that's fine
<taniwha>
yeah, it will remember it: it will just toggle the current setting (you can bring up that settings window any time in the space center view)
<Virindi>
closing it is easy I know :)
<Virindi>
it's a very minor annoyance.
<Virindi>
I also figured it would be a 5 letter fix to change a default value from true to false :)
<taniwha>
it would, but I think it might be good to have control of it outside the VAB/SPH
<Virindi>
yeah actually if I had a choice, I would have it never remember that status and ALWAYS start closed
<Virindi>
even if I last had it open
<Virindi>
OH
<Virindi>
that reminds me
<Virindi>
my god how did I not remember this
<Virindi>
maybe you've already fixed this but last month when I was playing career I kept running into the problem that tweakscaled parts used the unscaled values to determine part costs with epl
<Virindi>
so if I scaled something up it was uber cheap vs the mass, if I scaled it down it was too expensive
<taniwha>
tweakscale is a pile of ....
<Virindi>
I accidentally cheated a huge amount of materialkits into space by building something then deciding I didn't want it and disassembling it for way more than it cost
<taniwha>
I don't know about tweakscale, but I /did/ fix KIS containers
<taniwha>
(not yet released)
<Virindi>
what is wrong with them? I have many times constructed a container full of eva tools for my kerbals
<Virindi>
doesn't use the mass of the contents?
<taniwha>
yeah, as of KSP 1.2, EL couldn't see the contents when building
<Virindi>
that's not terrible at least
<taniwha>
would be for the big containers
<Virindi>
I filled my entire station's materialkits storage from building and disassembling 1 part :P
<taniwha>
heh
<Virindi>
everyone seems to hate tweakscale
<Virindi>
too bad it's such great functionality
<taniwha>
concept is good. details are in some places rotten. implementation (when I looked a couple of years ago) utterly horrible
<taniwha>
(looked to try to get build costs correct, ran screaming)
<taniwha>
Virindi: pushed
<taniwha>
default now false, and toggle available in the space center
<Virindi>
I never put big stuff in KIS containers.....I mean, if you put something too big for a kerbal to carry what use is it? you'd have to shove it around or something, huge pita, might as well just spawn a ship with that in the world
<Virindi>
yay!
<Virindi>
thanks :)
<taniwha>
I agree about KIS containers, but some people...
<Virindi>
now I know I should just put that epl workshop inside a KIS shipping crate if I want to get it to orbit
<Virindi>
:D
<Virindi>
shipping container*
<taniwha>
epl? *twitch*
<taniwha>
oh, and good luck keeping 15 kerbals close enough to move the thing around :P
<Virindi>
the giant blue cylinder workshop is epl isn't it.
<taniwha>
EL EL EL EL :P
<taniwha>
(but yes, it is)
<Virindi>
ePl
<taniwha>
it's extraplanetary, not extra planetary
<Virindi>
extra planetary launchpad's
<Virindi>
hold on I need more apostrophes in there
<taniwha>
so more planetary launchpads, eh?
<Virindi>
yes I need some extras
<Virindi>
that giant blue cylinder needs a better iva btw :P
<taniwha>
btw, push includes fixes for module info for EL's converters
<taniwha>
hey, at least it has one
<taniwha>
with a flag, even :)
<taniwha>
(but yes)
<Virindi>
it needs software on a mfd that lets you build from iva :D
<taniwha>
what do you think of the workstations, btw?
<Virindi>
inside the cylinder?
<taniwha>
yeah
<Virindi>
it all looked very blue.
<Virindi>
oh I see, they are actually screens
<Virindi>
test pattern is better than KOS HAS ENCOUNTERED A FATAL EXCEPTION
<Virindi>
:D
<taniwha>
I actually hunted for both 4:3 and 16:9 patterns
<taniwha>
(standard NTSC)
<Virindi>
oh wow they ARE different
<Virindi>
I didn't even notice that.
<taniwha>
so, yes, could do with more props
<taniwha>
but I did put in /some/ effort :)
<taniwha>
but the helmets get in the way :(
<taniwha>
(or did I turn them off in the end? I've forgotten)
<Virindi>
well since you were bragging about the fancy flag
<Virindi>
HOW DARE YOU PROVIDE SOFTWARE AND NOT FIX SUCH GLARING ISSUES
<taniwha>
as I suspected: using mirror modifier
<taniwha>
however, have to go
<Virindi>
ttfn :)
<taniwha>
see you later
<taniwha>
(however, workshop.blend in git if you want a look)
<Virindi>
I'm getting ready for bed....heh I wasn't actually complaining, more like friendly ribbing
<Virindi>
always loved ePl, great mod, been enjoying it for years...despite improperly mirrored flags
<Virindi>
I'm pretty sure the last time I used that blue cylinder it didn't have an IVA at all? but that was probably years ago already, I think I only used it on my laythe base where everything was a truck on TT wheels
<Virindi>
even before kethane I think...
<Virindi>
the ore smelter looked surprisingly good as the back of a truck, for such a simple model
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<egg|zzz|egg>
xShadowx: Virindi: taniwha: oh, you're looking at persistent rotation?
<egg|zzz|egg>
I think that's something we want to get to at some point :D
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<taniwha>
Virindi: just so you know, fixing that flag was a lot more involved than it should have been
<taniwha>
those models were last exported with a much older version of my script and so all the shaders were broken
<taniwha>
fixing those was... annoying
<taniwha>
but flag fixed :) (by using an array modifier rather than mirror (ie spun the flag instead of mirrored it))
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<xShadowx>
taniwha: animated-in-wind flag model when?:P <3
<xShadowx>
just thought of that, and realized i never realized ksp flags dont wave
<xShadowx>
doesnt blender have a cloth sim? or was that somethin else........
* xShadowx
googles
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<Virindi>
xShadowx: the flag in front of the astronaut complex waves...
<Virindi>
despite the fact that kerbin has no wind.
<Virindi>
somehow.
<Virindi>
we really need better weather.
<Virindi>
clouds are cool, but there need to be storm systems with associated wind
<Virindi>
obviously it should be a simulation project like far or principia but for meteorology :D
<Thomas>
SilverFox did something with weather
<SilverFox>
weather?
<SilverFox>
yeah
<Virindi>
is that that mod where you could set wind just in a ui
<Virindi>
I want ksc to have a reason to build a north/south runway! :D
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<egg|zzz|egg>
Virindi: moo?
<Virindi>
moo?
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<egg|zzz|egg>
dunno, you said principia, so I mooed
<egg|zzz|egg>
I do that sometimes
<egg|zzz|egg>
you'll get used to it
<Virindi>
just as an example of a mod that attempts to simulate an aspect of physics in the most realistic manner it can :)
<Virindi>
when does principia get relativistic effects.
<egg|zzz|egg>
nah, we're not doing that
<egg|zzz|egg>
they're smol tbh
<egg|zzz|egg>
we might add more spherical harmonics though, Phobos needs moar of them
<egg|zzz|egg>
right now Phobos's orbit is quite far off
<egg|zzz|egg>
also the Moon has a lot of weird harmonics to it
<Virindi>
an approximation of the flyby anomaly?
<Virindi>
gotta have that extra few m/s
<Virindi>
or maybe kerbals already determined that to be a bogus noneffect
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* Virindi
replaces methodinfo.invoke with delegate (@this)
* Virindi
wonders about fucky bound landing
<Virindi>
taniwha: it seems like ragdoll recover does something similar, it looks for your velocity to be less than x but that will never be the case on some (reasonable) slope level, so even if you trip in place on a not so bad slope you will just fall all the way to the bottom
<Virindi>
I don't think that's reasonable either but whatever, probably intended
<Virindi>
sweet, raycasthit returns the normal of what we hit
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<Virindi>
ahh I read that wrong, the 0.1 seconds is for leaving the ground not arriving at it.
* Virindi
adds a new gameevent hook to TTE and goes looking for where events are unhooked and finds they are not
<Virindi>
the most important vanilla fix possible would be to stop the debug console input box from randomly grabbing focus
<Virindi>
I'm just bored waiting for ups to get me my fpga stuff so I can play with that instead :\
<Virindi>
the problem with fixing is that then I have to go do a lot of testing that I am not interested in doing
<xShadowx>
what is this 'testing' thing
<xShadowx>
thats what users are for :P jk
<Virindi>
I find users to not be that good at finding problems
<Virindi>
the person who wrote it doing extensive testing is as good as 500 users
<xShadowx>
so when 500,000 people use it, your efforts are outnumbered 1000 to 1
<Virindi>
but they are much worse at reporting what happened and how it was caused
<xShadowx>
Virindi: its not working, fixed yet?
<Virindi>
in my previous life one thing I did was, I wrote a module that was included in every plugin I distributed, with an exception handler
<xShadowx>
wish i could find a way to get parts who send <resource>
<Virindi>
which sent exceptions and stack traces back to my server along with what versions of plugins were being run
<xShadowx>
partset is being annoying and not easily giving it up ;p
<Virindi>
MANY times there were possible exceptions which I didn't even know existed and nobody reported but I got an automated report
<xShadowx>
i seem to remember ksp had somethin like that and people bitched :P
<Virindi>
I didn't send any extra info and I didn't even store the IP that sent the report in the main db, it was only used to filter out spam attempts
<Virindi>
but hey
<Virindi>
humans you MIGHT be able to trust to do that
<Virindi>
companies, you pretty much can't.
<xShadowx>
i trust humans about as much as i trust my cat in front of the aquiarium :P
<Virindi>
once statistics go into a corporate entity they will eventually be "monetized"
<Virindi>
some humans you can trust, some you can't
<Virindi>
trick is differentiating them :P
<xShadowx>
ah modstats is what i was thinkin of
<Virindi>
I wouldn't want MY "anonymous statistics" being transmitted either!
<Virindi>
because the default assumption is abuse
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<Virindi>
but it really did help a lot to make the completely free no strings attached software offering better :)
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<taniwha>
modstats did not go down well in the community