egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-> ⟨Marsh⟩ ⟪Quattro rumbass⟫ How much tolerance is fine for a 2100~ […] ⮪ Instead of packing a certain amount of delta v, I just carry a fixed amount of propellant. Like about 25 liters for an early probe, maybe 50 or 100 for something larger that’s going further than mars
<queqiao-> ⟨Champ0220⟩ Just tried to do my first interplanetary Venus flyby
<queqiao-> ⟨Champ0220⟩ >40 mins later got the trajectory
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<queqiao-> ⟨patrikcath⟩ ⟪Marsh⟫ Instead of packing a certain amount of […] ⮪ Probably works better tbh, and giving the probe a larger fuel tank will let it carry more stuff in the future so it pays off anyway. Pretty sure the wasted money is in single or double digits at most.
<queqiao-> ⟨kraimoco⟩ ⟪Champ0220⟫ >40 mins later got the trajectory ⮪ Probably average tbh lol, especially with how much more massive the Sun is relative to Kerbol, so all the planets have easier to aim at SoI's
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #3672: A benchmark for the Sun-Neptune equipotentials - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3672
<queqiao-> ⟨hallucinogender⟩ Has the method of installing Principia changed recently? I am creating a clean install of RP-1 with the new update. I installed Principia as usual (by downloading it from the GitHub link, extracting the resulting zip file, and placing the Principia folder in GameData). Normally, this just works. Today, I loaded up the game and encountered an error, telling me that there is a Principia dll file missing from the PDLauncher...
<queqiao-> ... folder. How can I fix this?
<queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ Sounds like you're using the PDlauncher bypass method that breaks mods.
<queqiao-> ⟨hallucinogender⟩ ⟪siimav⟫ Sounds like you're using the PDlauncher […] ⮪ I wasn't aware that it breaks mods. That's odd.
<queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ Let me guess, you picked that up from a particular youtuber's video?
<queqiao-> ⟨hallucinogender⟩ No, I did not.
<queqiao-> ⟨hallucinogender⟩ After switching to a _functional_ launcher bypass method, do I need to do a clean install again, or will the mod just work after that?
<queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ Should work
<queqiao-> ⟨hallucinogender⟩ Thank you.
<queqiao-> ⟨hallucinogender⟩ That worked just fine, thank you.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ Hello am using principia, I havent used it in a while and am trying to do a venus flyby, I have plotted with TWP and inputted my inclination and lan into PVG and launched into it at the correct time, but when am in orbit using VSO for my reference frame it wants to go backwards? and says it will collide with earth.
<queqiao-> and advice much appreciated.
<queqiao-> ⟨Champ0220⟩ ⟪kraimoco⟫ Probably average tbh lol, especially […] ⮪ Yeah and I’m new to principia so that makes it very confusing
<queqiao-> ⟨Champ0220⟩ I thought it would be like going to the moon ( it wasn’t)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ like VSO feels all wrong, but am 99% sure thats waht i used previously
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ In the VSO frame, Venus is fixed; but you are looking at the Earth, which is not Venus, and is moving around. When you are looking at the trajectory near the Earth, pick a frame where the Earth is fixed.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Also, what is showing that ellipse ? Did you turn on patched conics ? That is highly confusing, as it is being drawn in the wrong reference frame.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ i dont know, it wants the trajectory to go back away from the earths rotation
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ I just installed principia ontop of the express
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Did you read the concepts page?
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ Yes I have used principia plenty of times before its just been a while, usually this just works but its acting up enough to make me think i screwed up the install somehow
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ No, a screwed up install isn’t going to result in things going backward, that is not how things work. Things going backward is just you looking at something which is not what you think it is.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I would recommend reading the concepts page again if it has been a while. https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Concepts
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ VSO is the correct reference frame, and my flight plan is going relative backwards to earth, because i can tell based on the periapsis near venus (its like 60 days)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ am attempting a flyby i am aiming to catch up to venus not go retrograde itno it
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Whether something moves along or against the direction of the Earth’s motion is reference-frame dependent, because the reference frames involved rotate.
<queqiao-> ⟨kraimoco⟩ ⟪Champ0220⟫ I thought it would be like going to the […] ⮪ I think the main difficulty in interplanetary stuff is that since principia has no SoI, you managing to get within ~500,000 kilometers of Venus doesn't trigger anything, so you need to get within 20,000 kilometers for the orbit to actually be affected, which is the eye of a needle compared to 1 A.U
<queqiao-> ⟨Champ0220⟩ Exactly
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ the flight plan thinks am gonna collide with earth or another body, almost immediately except for a tiny window, which doesnt make sense if am purely firing prograde
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ And there is no _the correct reference frame_. There may sometimes be a most convenient reference frame to look at a specific aspect of something. But if you want to look at your ejection from Earth, you probably want to pick something that fixes the Earth, either ECI or GSE.
<queqiao-> ⟨Champ0220⟩ ⟪egg⟫ And there is no *the correct reference […] ⮪ I struggled with that too
<queqiao-> ⟨Champ0220⟩ There is no good reference
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Kriomarine⟫ Hello am using principia, I havent used […] ⮪ Looking at this, it sounds like you are firing prograde in VSO from Earth orbit ? I wager that is your problem, and you are slamming yourself into the ground.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ You want to be firing prograde along your Earth orbit, that is, prograde in ECI.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ that might be the case, am using vso frames then firing prograde 3600-3800
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ so i want my maneuver to be ECI and plotting VSO?
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ I Guess
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ You want you manœuvre frame to be in ECI. You want to be changing the plotting frame all the time depending on what you look at.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ thats what iw as missing
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ i thought they both had to be the same
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (Re « depending on what you look at » : VSO being a good choice to look both at the general allure of the transfer and at the arrival, except that for a landing you may want VCVF, and if you need to think about the ejection, ECI or GSE are better, and if you just want to look at the transfer as a whole but not the endpoints, HCI can be useful.)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Kriomarine⟫ i thought they both had to be the same ⮪ No. The manœuvre frame answers the question « What does _forward_ mean when I say thrust _forward_? », so it is an inherent part of your plan. Whereas the plotting frame is dependent on what you are looking at (which may be any of many things along the same plan, see my preceding message).
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Again, if you are not switching plotting frames all the time, you are doing this wrong. When you thought there was a problem with your ejection, you should have switched to an Earth-centred frame, where it would have been obvious that you were burning in a direction that made no sense and slamming yourself into the ground.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kriomarine⟩ thank you, ig ot my intercept now, i was quite confused, appreciate it. mariner 1 failed because of this but mariner 2 wont ^
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<queqiao-> ⟨Unofficial Aesthetic Inspector⟩ I may be soon experimenting with Direct Ascent R-7 to the moon. In any case, I'd love y'all's help
<queqiao-> Iirc Thor-Able Direct Ascent was done without KoS?
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ I'm assuming this has something to do with the principea install? How do I get a "normal" view of my craft
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ You want your manœuvre frame to be ECI. You want to be changing the plotting frame all the time depending on what you look at.