egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-> ⟨jfinizolas⟩ ⟪egg⟫ There is as Nazfib mentioned a post on […] ⮪ It’s a very neat display! Sometimes I like to just stare at it with my telescope :)
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Skopos] eggrobin closed issue #1: The connection inspector should say which link is limiting - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Skopos/issues/1
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Skopos] eggrobin commented on issue #1: The connection inspector should say which link is limiting - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Skopos/issues/1#issuecomment-1596326936
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Huh, Σκοπός issues end up here.
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Skopos] eggrobin opened issue #2: Antenna power and spectrum usage breakdown - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Skopos/issues/2
<queqiao-> ⟨clayel⟩ for upgrading to the next version, you just delete the old principia folder and put the new one in its place, right?
<paculino> Yes
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] Clayell opened issue #3695: Two crashes within a few hours - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3695
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] westlakem opened issue #3696: Attempt to access invalid address caused PC to hard restart - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3696
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #3696: Attempt to access invalid address caused PC to hard restart - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3696#issuecomment-1596607933
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #3695: Two crashes within a few hours - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3695#issuecomment-1596618230
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Hmm interesting, I also have GC crashes sometimes (not often), didn't think it could be linked to Principia
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ is there any alternative to transfer window planner that's more accurate with principia? i find it tends to consistently underestimate dv requirements
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ I just have some margin, it shouldn't be more than 200m/s error
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ why is this happening?
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ i clicked "active engines", btw.
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ +it doesn't fix it.
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ why is this happening? the burn time is wrong, and as a result, the maneuver doesn't execute correctly
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ why is this happening? the burn time is wrong, and as a result, the predicted maneuver doesn't match the actual one
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ hmm. i frantically clicked rebase a bunch of times and then active engines and it fixed itself. strange. nevermind, i suppose
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<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ We shoud try to better report what engines are being used (and what the initial mass is, perhaps).
<queqiao-> That would require major changes to the data model of the flight plan so it keeps track of parts etc.
<queqiao-> ⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ~Wen staging support~
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ maybe not staging support, but just a window to let the player enter burn time manually 🙏
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ actually, thrust and burn time
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ +and mass.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ * start mass and end mass, well, it's a bit complicated.
<queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ As if 🥚 is going to implement some hacky solution.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Without it I suffer every time i need to change my unguided moonshot design
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ The right way to do it currently involves simming the unguided stage with MJ flight recorder and finding the time which splits dV expended in half, then using this time to find the correct lead time before principia maneuver time
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg4999⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Without it I suffer every time i need […] ⮪ as you should
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] Clayell commented on issue #3695: Two crashes within a few hours - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3695#issuecomment-1597301225
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] westlakem commented on issue #3696: Attempt to access invalid address caused PC to hard restart - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3696#issuecomment-1597380657
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #3696: Attempt to access invalid address caused PC to hard restart - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3696#issuecomment-1597431755
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ ⟪egg⟫ We shoud try to better report what […] ⮪ would it at least be possible to show a warning when the two don't match?
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Without it I suffer every time i need […] ⮪ would it be enough to be able to tell principia _which stage_ to use for its calculations? e.g. so if you're on guided stage 2, it can sim using unguided stage 3
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ +currently
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ +(this is the main problem i've run into, forcing me to guess using instant impulse for unguided stages
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ * stages)
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ analyzing staging is literally hell
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ giving it a number so that it just uses parts from that stage? maybe
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ now that I think about, it can work
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ * about it,
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ in fact, you probably always need just the next stage, so it could be "Next Stage Engines"
<raptop> Well, unless you have drop tanks or something
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Yes, in case of complicated staging it will not work
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ solids are their own mess. Really you would want the controls to work with a fixed magnitude in that case.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Yes, MJ somehow calculates a burn time that is unrelated to the actual thrust curve
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ so yes, solids will not work well
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ +that have a thrust curve
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg4999⟩ lamont has occasionally talking about turning some of MJ into a library with a proper API (the pvg rewrite might include a step in that direction?); that _might_ make it easier for something like principia to leverage dv-window-stats for a basic stage-aware planner
<queqiao-> ⟨lpg4999⟩ * talked
<queqiao-> ⟨lamont⟩ yep
<queqiao-> ⟨lamont⟩ talked with sarbian yesterday (in my living room amusingly enough) about extracting MJLib
<queqiao-> ⟨lamont⟩ but unfortunately the FFS code isn't extracted into MJLib
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] eggrobin closed issue #3686: Incorrect "maneuver frame differs from plotting frame" message - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3686
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] eggrobin closed issue #3689: hard crash with the newest update - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3689
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<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ This... is something else. I've never seen an orbit bend away from a planitary body before
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ This... is something else. I've never seen an orbit bend away from a planitary body before (VCI view of a venus transfer)
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ this is common in X-Y-Orbit frame
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ Is that because the pull from the Sun is stronger than the pull from the planet?
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ yes; if you switch to inertial frame you'll see it's always concave to the sun
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ imagine you're on a merry-go-around and someone throws a tennis ball at you, expecting you to catch it.
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ in ground frame the ball moves relatively straight. but in the frame where you're on the spinny platform the ball approaches you and then bends away as you move past (and fail to catch it because of being thoroughly dizzy)
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ My PE/AP just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I may not have fully captured either (it's a venus flyby mission that I was going to attempt to capture, but I might not have the DV)
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ the VCI analogy would be still on the merry go round but not rotating with it
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ yeah you're on a lagging orbit
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ this actually happened to JAXA's あかつき (Akatsuki) spacecraft when it failed to capture n 2010
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ * irl to JAXA's あかつき (Akatsuki) spacecraft when it failed to capture in
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ (they tried again successfully in 2015)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪night_beast⟫ My PE/AP just keeps getting bigger and […] ⮪ > may not have fully capturedThat is an understatement! Look at the trajectory: Venus does not move in this reference frame, so you are vaguely looping around Venus from afar, and then each subsequent loop is further away from Venus!
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ interesting... and that's all because I don't have the DV to circularize here
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ i think you're a bit far to even think about circularizing
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ well, "capturing"
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ You are a third of the way to the orbit of Mercury; forget about capture or circularization, you are just not even close to Venus.
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ you can't really circularize an orbit much farther than the SoI radius in KSP, so yeah...
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ (retrograde orbits are more stable at far distances, but 'far' means inside the lagrange points)
<raptop> I guess there are distant retrograde orbit shenanigans, but yeah, SoIs are useful approximations for a reason
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ the contract required 20Mm, my plan is at 14
<raptop> You're at 14 Gm, not 14 Mm
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ woops, 😵‍💫 thank you
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ as xkcd says, that is the difference between 30 seconds with your mom and a tiny sip of wine and an entire night with her
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ err. https://xkcd.com/558/
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ 😦 I can't get much closer than that... I guess that's what I get for choosing "fly-by" in the TWP
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ Good news is... I got it. Bad news is, it requires a 4Km/s binormal adjustment. That's the last time I trust the "fly-by" TWP
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Definitely not TWP's fault
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] pleroy opened issue #3697: Service Module and enclosed fairings will start to rotate faster and faster when free falling in atmosphere - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3697
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3698: Include-what-you-using for benchmark - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3698
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Definitely not TWP's fault ⮪ I'm confused... I launched into orbit 3 days before the TWP date, launched at the ejection LAN with the correct inclination (28.1), circularized at 200km, and this is what I got
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ is your flight time the same as expected by TWP?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ if it's not then you are not executing the same transfer
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ I'll check here in a second. I'm on the toilet
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ No... Not at all
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ this is not going to work
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ this all looks good
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ what happens if you just plan a maneuver prograde with 3607m/s?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ +(or just a little more)
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ adjust time too
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ that's about all that's happeneing depending on when I start the t initial
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ What is your manœuvre frame?
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ VSO
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ oh
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ so that's the reason.
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ needs to be ECI
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3698: Include-what-you-using for benchmark - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3698
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ 😒
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ looks not very bad
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ adjust dv and time until there is an impact
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3699: Only run on mockingbirdnest/Principia - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3699
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ is there a way to get principia to take into account the fact that my engine is damaged and is only outputting half thrust?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪_whitenotifier-1adf⟫ [Principia] pleroy opened pull request […] ⮪ Thanks; I was just about to complain that my fork is getting random CI failure emails
<queqiao-> ⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪fiora⟫ is there a way to get principia to take […] ⮪ Not to my knowledge unfortunately
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al₂Me₆⟫ Thanks; I was just about to complain […] ⮪ You’ll still get email about failing lint and REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT etc., but that is actionable, whereas not having access to our VMs isn’t.
<queqiao-> ⟨fiora⟩ ⟪Al₂Me₆⟫ Not to my knowledge unfortunately ⮪ grrrr
<queqiao-> ⟨night_beast⟩ is there any way to have the start / end times for a burn adjust itself if you create a flight plan before staging?
<queqiao-> ⟨thunkii⟩ ⟪night_beast⟫ I'm confused... I launched into orbit 3 […] ⮪ play around with the departure time in principia plan mode before TVI
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ ⟪night_beast⟫ is there any way to have the start / […] ⮪ No
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account⟩ Such burns can be planned only approximately as instant impulse burns
<_whitenotifier-1adf> [Principia] FioraAeterna opened issue #3700: Principia doesn't take into account damaged engines - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3700
<queqiao-> ⟨Gopnik_Boi⟩ What mods work with principia i tried to dowlaod some but it ends up killing myu ram and computer any suggestions?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ That is not a sufficiently well-formed question to answer.
<queqiao-> If I were to divine what you meant, you installed too many mods and ran out of memory? If so try removing visual overhauls and large part mods (BDB?).
<queqiao-> ⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪_whitenotifier-1adf⟫ [Principia] FioraAeterna opened issue […] ⮪ (As alluded to earlier, Principia's comprehension of staging structure is practically nonexistent, so this isn't realistically fixable without a much larger overhaul.)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ > <Al₂Me₆ Automated Computer> THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.