ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
<awang>
I was basically assuming a PEG-like profile, so you'd end up jettisoning fairings at 110+km
<Starwaster>
in stock you're going to have at most a few hundred kw/m2 of radiation heating
<Starwaster>
in RO you're going full thrust almost the entire ascent for a lot of rockets
<Starwaster>
but anyway, not sure whaty ou mean about vessel independent?
<Starwaster>
if justhe fairing part is ok then it's...
<awang>
Right, but by the time you want to jettison the fairings you shouldn't have much radiative heating, right?
<Starwaster>
right
<awang>
Vessel geometry independent? so the equation you come up with doesn't depend on selecting a particular part?
<Starwaster>
(otherwise you'd be in trouble)
<Starwaster>
right, it's the base numbers that LATER get applied to the parts
<Starwaster>
like that radiative part... that's actually happening before the part by part calcs happen
<awang>
Wait what
<awang>
So you want to go for part-specific heating numbers later on?
<Starwaster>
no no no I'm just saying, in the stock code, that equation I threw up there actually happens as part of the pre-calc phase before it walks through the parts
<Starwaster>
what we do for MJ necessarily is going to be much simpler regardless of whether you want to pull the numbers off the fairing part or go with a general solution...
<Starwaster>
the general solution is what I thought you wanted which is why I was working on it
<Starwaster>
since that would apply to the vessel as a whole...?
<awang>
Oh
<awang>
I mean, yeah, a general solution would be nice, but if you can come up with a less general solution that is more accurate than what I had that would also work
<awang>
I'm not trying to restrict you or anything
<awang>
I think I was just getting confused with what you were saying
<awang>
I think I figured out what's going on
<awang>
Maybe
<lamont>
what is the tolerance for how long a computation can take when you click “create node” in the mechjeb API? like if its on the order of 0.02 sec that’s a single physics tick of lag. if it just happens once when you press a button is that acceptable? how long is too long?
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<Starwaster>
lamont, not sure this is reasonable but I think I was thinking less than that.... but I never really thought about it before. Are you saying you'd like to be able to devote that much time worth of computation?
<lamont>
yeah
<lamont>
and i’m not talking about every tick
<lamont>
i’m talking about in response to one button press on the UI
<lamont>
clearly if it goes for a second then it beachballs (on a mac) and that’s fairly awful
<Starwaster>
No more than one graphics frame worth actually
<Starwaster>
btw lamont... PEG GUI seems to have changed subtly... staging on guidance initiation seems to be gone?
<lamont>
i’ve got a function for creating a maneuver node that takes 0.01s on my machine, so half a tick. it’ll of course take longer on slower cores. that feels reasonable to me.
<lamont>
i haven’t touched the PEG code much in ages, other than to backport from current dev-MJ
<Starwaster>
ohhhh shit... what was that decoupler bug that Sarbian started working on recently for Sumghai? Where if decouple had some other module on it, it wouldn't show up as a decoupler and throw off dV calc?
<lamont>
“rebase on upstream MJ-dev (should fix one known bug in dV display in VAB)”
<Starwaster>
yeah but I'm on old MJ2 still on KSP 1.4.5...
<Starwaster>
what WAS the bug exactly? what was it getting hung up on?
<lamont>
IDK
<Starwaster>
was it decoupelrs with guidance...?
<Starwaster>
NO... decouplers with engines?
<lamont>
sarbian did magical sarbian things and it went away...
<Starwaster>
SO HE DOES HAVE A MAGIC WAND SARBIAN YOU LIAR
<Starwaster>
telling us he didn't have one
<Starwaster>
hmph
<Starwaster>
crap, my decouplers dont have engines... hrmmmmm
<Bornholio>
was that whole fiasco 'cause dry doesn't understand you can ignore stages with <x dV?
<Bornholio>
there are nice decouplers with built in sep motors
<lamont>
i can’t even parse it
<lamont>
he’s talking classic ascent stuff with normal circularization burns, and none of that code cares much at all about dV
<Bornholio>
then wtf nevermind he is Gordon dry pie in the sky
<Starwaster>
Gordon Dry, Pie in the Sky
<Starwaster>
wow....
<Starwaster>
Bornholio you are a goddamn poet
<Starwaster>
and yay, I have stable guidance
<Starwaster>
I have no idea why
<Bornholio>
great, also you have low standards for poetry :)
<Starwaster>
lol
<Starwaster>
could be that too
<Starwaster>
omg I'm flying a rocket with no abort system
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<Bornholio>
silly russian
<Starwaster>
not russian
<Starwaster>
lamont what do you think of changes to the staging system to allow setting up for staging when resources are below a certain limit instead of actually empty?
<Starwaster>
and what would be required for PEG to be able to reliably respond to that?
<lamont>
are you trying to solve hotstaging?
<lamont>
or solids with a thrust curve?
<lamont>
and generally if you can get the Delta-V Stats display to be accurate PEG will be happy
<Starwaster>
no, think SpaceX with recoverable stages
<lamont>
ahhhh
<Starwaster>
currently if I want to reserve about 10-15% I have to set up a separate tank in each relevant stack that has no feed at all
<Starwaster>
that works... more or less but the CoM changes are screwy if I want to pilot the stage manually for recovery
<Starwaster>
as opposed to... Stage Recovery
<Starwaster>
or even screws up the CoM for stage ejection for that matter
<Starwaster>
if I could just have one long tank that has its reserve built into it that would be great
<Starwaster>
seems to me it should be possiblebut I have no idea what changes might have happened in the past half year or so
<Qboid>
[#951] title: Enhancement: Declarative Programmable Autostaging | There's a bunch of rockets that we can't fly entirely correctly with PEG or autostaging because they need special things to happen which violating the "simple" Kerbal-style autostaging rules. For example:... | https://github.com/MuMech/MechJeb2/issues/951
<Starwaster>
and of course, the PEG question
<Starwaster>
promise me that's not a GD issue? I will slay you if I have to read one more GD issue :P
<lamont>
no no that’s mine
<Starwaster>
omg... my... Dragon pod.... isnt configured properly, the engines have no fuel and of course it has no goddamn chutes
<lamont>
so if you teach the MechJebModuleStagingController how to do that, and then teach FuelFlowSimulation how to predict that, then it’ll go into Delta-V Stats where PEG will consume it and be happy
<lamont>
then its just a matter of UX and putting a textbox somwhere useful
<Starwaster>
hmmm
<Starwaster>
btw, has anyone here ever ejected their Kerbals in mid-reentry?
<Starwaster>
just curios
<Starwaster>
with Deadly Reentry of course
<lamont>
i was reading something fun about that in real life the other day
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<Starwaster>
so have you?
<Starwaster>
"Yep, you’d hit the ground from a few hundred feet altitude with the chute still unfurling. Not recommended. "
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<soundnfury>
TACLS converters are broken because the RO MM patches try to edit more input/output resources than the original converters have, thus some of them are missing from the result
<soundnfury>
currently testing a fix, PR to follow
<Bornholio>
okay having worked with USAF bomb loaders how the fudge did they mess that up .sigh fraggin three different lockout pins for any gun to fire plus generally uhooking the actuator and putting a shorting plug or plug cap in its place
<Bornholio>
well one less electric lawn dart in the world
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I feel like, and I not trying to get political here, but the lack of guns in european countries results in a general lack of respect for the danger of weapons especially guns
<Rokker>
which does happen in the states too to a lesser extent
<Rokker>
but I've heard some horror stories from Europeans in boot camp and stuff
<Bornholio>
rokker don't look at this horific image, will scar you for life
<Rokker>
ban belgians
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* soundnfury
is currently flying the crazy-complicated lunar landing mission
<soundnfury>
thanks to thrust upgrades on the EDS, TLI 'only' took 6m27s
<Bornholio>
what engine
<soundnfury>
RL10A-3-3A
<soundnfury>
(throwing my Delta Taxi Mark II with an AJ10-118F engine)
<soundnfury>
peak acceleration 1.2g, in the -Z direction from the crew cabin ;-)
<Bornholio>
snf are you feeling like pushing more RP-0/1 PR's ?
<soundnfury>
well I opened one last night...
<soundnfury>
(technically RO but nvm)
<soundnfury>
I'll have a look when I'm done with this mission, see if there's anything pushworthy
<soundnfury>
(I can't run a browser at the same time as KSP, because all of the rams)
<Bornholio>
.smirk
<soundnfury>
successfully docked to propellant depot in LLO.
<Bornholio>
good deal
<Bornholio>
watching snow fall...
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<soundnfury>
CAPCOM, we are GO for powered descent.
<Bornholio>
avoid 12 extra seconds of powered hover :)
<soundnfury>
it's ok, I have scatters disabled so I won't have to avoid any boulders :)
<Mike`>
i think/hope there's a pushworthy (although tiny) by me :p
<Bornholio>
i'll try and comment on any ive tested
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* soundnfury
plants flag in the Sea of Serenity
<Mike`>
are you using principia, btw? and if so, how do you execute maneuvers? :)
<soundnfury>
no Principia.
<soundnfury>
this mission architecture's difficult enough without it :P
<soundnfury>
(so... many... dockings)
<Mike`>
nooo principia? :(
<egg>
ping?
<soundnfury>
what can I say? I like patched conics. Sue me.
<soundnfury>
hiya egg
<soundnfury>
not my fault this time :P
<egg>
<soundnfury> what can I say? I like patched conics. Sue me.
<egg>
R. v. patched conics, ex parte soundnfury
<Mike`>
but but....all those cool reference frames are worth it alone, not to mention your sun synchronous sats are actually sun synchronous...and lunar satellites can actually crash...etc etc oh, and getting to the moon is also too easy without it changing inclination :D
<soundnfury>
egg: wait, "R."? Is this because you're "egg le roi"?
<egg>
obviously
<egg>
oocracy
<soundnfury>
xD
<soundnfury>
Mike`: I may be hard enough to go to the Moon with spaceplanes and taxis, but I'm not hard enough to do so á la œuf.
<Mike`>
^^ i skip the planes instead :)
<Mike`>
do you use remotetech?
<soundnfury>
yes
<soundnfury>
but telemachus bypasses it, which is awkward
<soundnfury>
basically signal delay doesn't do anything any more
<Bornholio>
need to remember to recommend Early bird for RSS/RO/RP-0 anoying to press go to morning and get some random time
<soundnfury>
I just don't press go to morning
<soundnfury>
if my launch window is at night, my launch window is at night
<Mike`>
mostly same here, but it's annoying when i simulate/test new rockets and don't see anything because it happens to be night :S
<Rokker>
Bornholio: F-22 just flew directly overhead, last hurrevac planes seem to be leaving
<Rokker>
Bornholio: and nightwatch is here apparently
<Bornholio>
well offut has snow so good thing they didn't come here, i here floridians can't handle that.
<Bornholio>
hear
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I hope its touch and go week for the nightwatch
<Rokker>
cause ima bo watch the nightwatch
<Bornholio>
Good luck with that
<soundnfury>
lander docked back at the depot
<Rokker>
Bornholio: ima go see her on the apron this afternoon, and hopefully see her flying tomorrow
<Bornholio>
well i'm gonna launch bill nye the science rocket part IV
<soundnfury>
back in LEO, chasin' the Station
<soundnfury>
docked to Station, 'naut back aboard the spaceplane
<soundnfury>
Safe landing at the Cape; now writing up the mission report.
<Bornholio>
launching my Mongrol series SO A-4 rockets
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<soundnfury>
Bornholio: are they exceptional?
<Bornholio>
200km, actually have abort motors, aero surfaces, impromptu heat shield, RCS heavy enough to keep it at the right attitude. does that mean yes :P
<soundnfury>
No-one can keep rockets at the right attitude. Well, except the Mongols.