egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<B787_300> UmbralRaptop: so why didnt JWST just buy their mirrors from IKEA https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/40182060/ ... /s
<iximeow> wonder how well finished those are
<B787_300> iximeow: good enough for general people
<whitequark> modern mirrors are really good
<whitequark> they're absurdly flat
<whitequark> like, you can use modern float glass (mirrors use regular float glass) as lambda plates
<whitequark> and modern mirror coating is typically vapor deposited in vacuum, so that's pretty advanced too
<whitequark> i think pvd?
<iximeow> interesting
<whitequark> i'd guess that the reason they wouldn't work for jwst is that the substrate and the coating just don't have the right properties
<whitequark> absorption, thermal expansion, also soda glass is just very fragile
<whitequark> none of this really matters for household use
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<UmbralRaptop> B787_300: well, the focal length of NaN meters makes things a bit more complicated…
<egg|anbo|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a nuclear hydrochlorofluorocarbon
<egg|anbo|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh an electrical Helmholtz circle
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<bofh> A tight upper bound on number of parts required to hold the value
<bofh> pow(5, power) is
<bofh> power * 815 / (351 * integerPartWidth) + 1
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<awang> hUH
<awang> Compiling with -march=native slowed down my program
<APlayer> Time for benchmarking?
<awang> Wonder where the bottleneck came from
<awang> Yeah
<awang> Well, sort of
<awang> Got a regression suite-ish thing that I repurpose as a low-precision benchmark
<awang> Runtime dropped from 140ish seconds to 160ish seconds on the low end after adding march=native
<APlayer> Runtime increased, you mean?
<awang> Er, yes
<awang> Mixing up runtime and performance, apparently
<APlayer> Because I too wish that dropping from the 3rd floor to the 5th was possible :P
<awang> Got stairs on your way to/from work?
<awang> Hmmm
<APlayer> No, but perpetual motion machines would be nice ;-)
<awang> At least until all the energy fries us :(
<awang> Hm
<awang> Running tests individually reveals practically no difference with march=native
<APlayer> I guess if you have violation of conservation of energy, you also have decreasing entropy, don't you?
<awang> idk?
<awang> I'm inclined to say not necessarily, but this is way out of the areas I'm familiar with
<awang> Just seems to me that you can make entropy increase faster when violating conservation of energy, but entropy doesn't necessarily have to decrease
<kmath> <nicksdjohnson> Airport security: next time please remove your Kindle from your bag. The 20,000mAh battery pack is fine though.
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<e_14159> UmbralRaptop: That's because a Kindle contains facts, and we can't be having with them now, can we?
<UmbralRaptop> e_14159: I guess. My poster mainly seemed to bore customs into me being an actual scientist, though.
<e_14159> UmbralRaptop: It might not contain facts?
<kmath> <gsahida> スーパーカミオキャンディw(7/14・15 神岡町公民館で購入できますw) https://t.co/TAhTEFbuwh
<APlayer> UmbralRaptop: Can relate? https://i.imgur.com/nS4S34M.jpg
<UmbralRaptop> APlayer: Just remember: you can't die if you don't have a life.
<APlayer> Fair enough
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, what an adorable smol pewpew!
<SnoopJeDi> also: English description got rekt
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<APlayer> I want this for my birthday: https://i.imgur.com/9T2heG0.jpg
<APlayer> Like, really want
<bofh> rofl this is one of my promoted tweets: https://twitter.com/BeatsByDreFR/status/1018539281978134528
<kmath> <✔BeatsByDreFR> C.H.A.M.P.I.O.N.S. 🇫🇷🌍 ⏎ ⏎ @benmendy23 #MadeDefiant https://t.co/bUsKjEnfnB
<UmbralRaptop> Is the core erosion accurately modeled?
* UmbralRaptop may have to start using IDL =\
<SnoopJeDi> UmbralRaptop, do you have any thoughts on this IceCube blazar thing?
<UmbralRaptop> SnoopJeDi: I don't know enough HEP to say much beyond it seems cool.
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<SnoopJeDi> yea, my big takeaway is "oh dang, I didn't realize IceCube had a multi-messenger program" hah
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<awang> UmbralRaptop: IDL as in that Microsoft thing?
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<UmbralRaptop> awang: nah, random proprietary programming language that is inexplicably popular in astronomy.
<SnoopJeDi> I think the explanation is that it was a DSL on-the-scene when things were just getting going. People got used to it, wrote tools, and then the normal academic pathways took over
<awang> Sounds like the evolution of the typical legacy system
<SnoopJeDi> I think of https://xkcd.com/297/ everytime someone mentions analysis tools that get propagated mostly by "here's a copy"
<SnoopJeDi> awang, everything that is now "legacy" was once fresh and useful (and probably still is the latter)
* SnoopJeDi glances at Perl
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<UmbralRaptop> SnoopJeDi: you don't need a licence to run .pl files, though.
<SnoopJeDi> UmbralRaptop, aren't there free implementations of IDL? (not that people *use* them...)
<UmbralRaptop> Yeah, will probably be finding out how well they work.
<SnoopJeDi> heh.
<UmbralRaptop> Perl's sort of the FORTRAN of shell scripts. >_>
* SnoopJeDi glances at today's FORTRAN reading assignment
* SnoopJeDi cries
<SnoopJeDi> this is one line in numpy :(
* UmbralRaptop assumes that SnoopJeDi is looking at FORTRAN called by numpy?
<SnoopJeDi> nah, ad-hoc code written by my supervisor. I have a suspicion that the pseudoinverse he constructs step-by-step is different from the one given by numpy.linalg.pinv() (which uses SVD)
<awang> SnoopJeDi: Very true
<awang> Fortran reading assignment?
<awang> How do coding reading assignments work?
<awang> "Here's some code, figure out what it does"?
<SnoopJeDi> it's self-assigned
<SnoopJeDi> "I need to understand what X is doing, I'd better read some more of spaghetti.f95"
<UmbralRaptop> awang: oh, those are always fun. Or Fun.
<SnoopJeDi> Upshot: the deepest level of nested `do` loops in the block I am concerned with is only 4 deep!
<awang> UmbralRaptop: I know that too well :(
<awang> "Here's some code written by a rather unorganized employee a few years ago. Figure out how to add Feature A"
<awang> SnoopJeDi: I don't think I want to know what codebase you're working with there "It's only 4 levels deep" is considered a good thing
<awang> Although I'm hardly one to talk, with my Python class nesting abuse
<UmbralRaptop> MANDELBROT.F77
<SnoopJeDi> In my supervisor's defense, a lot of the nesting is for handling vectors, but...blegh.
<awang> Also, the errors that gfortran spits out when confronted with ancient ifort code are quite interesting to look through
<awang> Just gives me more appreciation for the poor folks who have to port VC++6-era code
<SnoopJeDi> a line like `PIdPhaseMatrix(j,1:Nstart(istart)+1)=PIdPhaseMatrix(j,1:Nstart(istart)+1)-temp(l,1:Nstart(istart)+1)*anorm` just makes my skin crawl
<SnoopJeDi> and that's not even a bad line with multiple operations on it!
<awang> SnoopJeDi: AAAAAAAAAA
<SnoopJeDi> once I unrolled the loops and worked out what the heck they're doing, I realized that a lot of the "loop on one line" stuff is just calculating inner products, but...I would assume that's something that can be made into a method? :|
<SnoopJeDi> I dunno I just wanna figure out why I screw this problem up so much and he doesn't.
<awang> You need a clang-format for Fortran
<awang> Too bad one doesn't exist yet
<awang> At least until flang gets going
<SnoopJeDi> I suspect getting LLVM involved would tetrate my problems, given my complete ignorance of it
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<awang> In theory, clang-format shouldn't require knowledge of LLVM itself
<awang> Just differing formatting parameters
<awang> Which is a rabbit hole in itself
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<egg|anbo|egg> whitequark: ANBOcat seemed to be fairly badly irritated under its flumethrin collar, so we removed it; but now three days later it is of course getting fleas... any thoughts?
<bofh_> 17:52:11 <@SnoopJeDi> Upshot: the deepest level of nested `do` loops in the block I am concerned with is only 4 deep!
<bofh_> okay that is, like, normal by any standards. :P
<bofh_> (I think my record that I've seen is 13 nested do loops, worst part is this was both sensible and unavoidable)
<SnoopJeDi> yea, it's alarmingly close to "I can read this and understand the author's intent"
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<SnoopJeDi> I'm just salty about having to translate this crap into the actual mathematical operation
<SnoopJeDi> because I get some very conflicting answers from him when I ask him directly
<SnoopJeDi> and I suspect there's something subtle in this construction that makes his pseudoinverse respect some degrees of freedom more than others, or something...
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<awang> bofh: Can you share what in the world was happening so that a 13-deep loop made sense?
<UmbralRaptop> Industry jobs: https://github.com/about/careers
* UmbralRaptop wonders why the building just lost power for a few seconds.
<UmbralRaptop> Also there appears to be lightning outside?
<SnoopJeDi> UmbralRaptop, good day to post that link :P
<SnoopJeDi> (considering the massive outage earlier)
<UmbralRaptop> Hah!
<awang> SnoopJeDi: ?
<SnoopJeDi> awang, github had a large outage today
<bofh> so we just had a completely inexplicable ~hour-long outage at ANBO just now
<bofh> (also when the power came back on a random Albinoni CD containing Sinfonie e concerti a cinque started at the second in F major which opens with a fairly triumphant trumpet bit, which was hilarious).
<bofh> https://twitter.com/sigfig/status/987862945689489409 anyway I think I'm just going to be RTing this every day for the next month or so.
<kmath> <sigfig> distinctly unclear if i just have a high probability of encountering strange events or if i do something to generate them
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<egg|anbo|egg> !wpn -add:wpn trumpet
<Qboid> egg|anbo|egg: Weapon added!
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn bugle
<Qboid> UmbralRaptop: Weapon added!
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn -add:wpn trombone
<Qboid> UmbralRaptop: Weapon already added!
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn egg|anbo|egg && bofh
* Qboid gives egg|anbo|egg && bofh a chlorinated combinator-like zero
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, that's a pretty delightful power-on coincidence :D
<egg|anbo|egg> <bofh|anbo|bofh> :-p
<egg|anbo|egg> today in ANBO conversations: "phosgene is not food"
<kmath> <marccold> I am responsible for buying books on psychology AND necromancy because the creators of classification systems thoug… https://t.co/B9uYR3R4wH
<egg|anbo|egg> so we just had another minute-long cut
<egg|anbo|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop an astatine monorepo which strongly resembles an extinguisher
<UmbralRaptop> egg|anbo|egg: don't confuse phosgene with hay?
<bofh> 16:42:20 * UmbralRaptop may have to start using IDL =\
<bofh> my extreme condolences
* UmbralRaptop also pokes pip and anaconda with sticks.
<kmath> <Talen_Lee> *holding clipboard, watching people playing with card games* So, uh, do you feel like communists yet?
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<UmbralRaptop> Looks like Fawlty is easier to install on OSX than GDL, so let's try that.
<UmbralRaptop> Apple apparently doesn't trust it because the dev didn't pay them enough $$$?
<awang> SnoopJeDi: Ah, I see
<awang> Surprised I haven't seen anything about that
<awang> ANBO?
<Qboid> awang: [ANBO] => Anglo-Norman Bovine Observatory
<awang> Fawlty?
<awang> Google's giving me a TV show, which doesn't sound right
<awang> Oh hey, ifixit's macbook teardown
<awang> Wonder if there's anything on whether the keyboard is actually usable now
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<UmbralRaptop> awang: FLOSS clone of the IDL compiler?
<UmbralRaptop> s/?/./
<UmbralRaptop> s/r\?/r\./
<Qboid> UmbralRaptop meant to say: awang: FLOSS clone of the IDL compiler\.
<UmbralRaptop> …