UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer. | We can haz pdf
<iximeow>
grade A magnet,
<SnoopJ>
!or magnet correctly painted or magnet incorrectly painted
<galois>
title: [2102.09519] WALOP-South: A wide-field one-shot linear optical polarimeter for PASIPHAE survey
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<SnoopJ>
imagery from the skycrane, wow
<WeylandsWings>
S SnoopJ and MRO caught the chute and back shell again
<SnoopJ>
WeylandsWings, I'm glad I tuned in, a friend who works on SuperCam was saying "huh, they're holding onto the EDL imagery" and then they showed some
<WeylandsWings>
Yeah I can’t wait until SpaceX starts landing things on Mars. I wonder if they will adopt the peanut tradition
<SnoopJ>
I can wait tbqh
<WeylandsWings>
Also if landing people on Mars do the people in the capsule have to eat peanuts too or is it only mission control
<SnoopJ>
I won't say no to data but their whole *gestures* thing is not awesome
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJ: I mean ... they are at least fast at things, even if they sometimes break
<WeylandsWings>
Like why did it take 8 years to make a copy of a rover?
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<SnoopJ>
1) saying it's a copy is deeply disrespectful to the work of people like my friend 2) the search keyword you want is "project management"
<SnoopJ>
(SuperCam is very much not ChemCam, for instance)
<SnoopJ>
anyway, you're not wrong about fast, I guess I just wonder what the rush is
<WeylandsWings>
... the oml and structure and energy systems are near identical. Payloads are different
<SnoopJ>
what's a payload matter when you wanna go fast, I guess
<WeylandsWings>
And project management when done poorly is just a massive drag on the overall program
<SnoopJ>
WeylandsWings, what part of the Perseverance program do you think was mismanaged?
<WeylandsWings>
NASA should be launching rovers every two years. define a set of standard SWAP and mounting locations and data interface and have a rover ready to go every time the transfer window opens
<WeylandsWings>
Or switch between rover / orbiter every 2 years
* SnoopJ
writes down "no answer"
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<WeylandsWings>
The whole exploration of Mars is just too damn slow
<SnoopJ>
I guess I take a long view here: I have brothers who were alive during the Mariner program
<SnoopJ>
the breakneck pace with which we've gone from "lol dunno, planets I guess?" to attacking and dethroning the red boye is pretty neat
<WeylandsWings>
And I don’t have enough insight into nasas program management to say. But I do have a lot of insight into the governments program management in general and it is filled with red tape and alway needing sign off from program officials for even small changes
<SnoopJ>
sucks to be the people whose incompetence you are freely assuming, I guess
<WeylandsWings>
And yes I have heard jpl is different because they aren’t fully government, but my experience with other government entities/agencies is shockingly consistent and generally negative
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<WeylandsWings>
I will happily admit I am painting with a very broad brush and could be wrong
<SnoopJ>
it's not an unfamiliar line of argument when SpaceX is broached, to be sure
<WeylandsWings>
And i am not saying what they did wasn’t amazing and worthy of praise. Especially at the lower levels. But at the higher levels of programmatics I have concerns
<SnoopJ>
they should just do it more betterer, I hear you
<SnoopJ>
I wish the remark came with specificity, but it has been my experience that the details are irrelevant, the malice is the point.
<WeylandsWings>
And SpaceX can suffer from the reverse too much delegation down
<SnoopJ>
it's violently depressing in the context of the space program's successes but it's not a terribly new story I guess :/
<SnoopJ>
(none of which is to say that SpaceX isn't doing novel things; they are and it's amazing)
<WeylandsWings>
Like I can understand why nasa was more concerned with SpaceX and not Boeing for crew missions
<WeylandsWings>
It just wasn’t borne out in that specific case
* raptop
feels like WeylandsWings' comments apply far more to crewed spaceflight than robotic
<SnoopJ>
also on-brand
<SnoopJ>
but I can forgive that, some people just...care about human spaceflight
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJ: more than you would think....
<SnoopJ>
WeylandsWings, I don't think so
<SnoopJ>
it's a large number to be sure
<WeylandsWings>
Like I do like robots. But want colonies on Mars and moon sooner rather than later
<SnoopJ>
it's certainly more compatible with their media strategy
* WeylandsWings
looks at his employer
<SnoopJ>
but fascination with human spaceflight has existed longer than spaceflight has
<raptop>
Or, MSL, MAVEN, InSight, and Percy have all arrived at Mars since the start of SLS
<SnoopJ>
MRO!
<SnoopJ>
which I guess is under the umbrella of MSL?
<raptop>
MRO, uh, arrived in 2006
<SnoopJ>
Hope probe, too
<WeylandsWings>
Why would MRO be under MSL? MSL is curiosity
<SnoopJ>
I think I'm mistakenly conflating them because it's the typical uplink
<raptop>
But yeah, ISRO, UAE, and ESA all sent missions
<SnoopJ>
Mars space is kind of busy lately
<SnoopJ>
(but apparently we're moving at a glacial pace)
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJ: I mean not glacial as that is negative now for the most part. Snails speed
<SnoopJ>
I guess if you don't particularly like planetary science...
<SnoopJ>
Probably looks very disappointing indeed if "humans on Mars" is the only goal
<SnoopJ>
but like you said, a lot of people think this way
<WeylandsWings>
SnoopJ: I don’t think it is the only goal. But like NASA has been complaining for years about a coming comms shortfall because a couple of the orbiters are so far past their design life no one knows when they will die. But nasa can’t get funding for a newer sat because they need to have a really good scientific reason
<WeylandsWings>
Even though the loss of the sats will severely limit the amount of science coming back from the rovers
<SnoopJ>
WeylandsWings, I'm not really interested in continuing the discussion if you don't have a case to make on the specifics, it's depressing enough in the ambient.
<SnoopJ>
(I'm not aware of any chatter around a "newer sat" but what's in orbit is pretty dang good?)
<WeylandsWings>
It has been a while since I read on it as it was for my undergrad senior design project. But as far as NASA orbiters you have Mars Odyssey (arrived in 2001, primary mission of 2.5 years) MRO (arrived 06, primary mission 4 years) and MAVEN (arrived 14 primary mission 2 years).
<WeylandsWings>
So all are well past their primary mission
<WeylandsWings>
And Odyssey has been very important for being a relay between rovers and earth
<WeylandsWings>
Like iirc nasa convinced the UAE to help and put some relay equip on Hope but there are still gaps
<SnoopJ>
Most missions pass their primary, in part precisely because the story has always been to squeeze more blood from the stone
<WeylandsWings>
To me, passing primary mission means you over engineered it. And that comes with increased costs
<SnoopJ>
WeylandsWings, what parts of Curiosity are over-engineered in your opinion?
<WeylandsWings>
Like don’t design to just die at end of primary but so many of these probes and spacecraft in general are over engineered to last forever
<WeylandsWings>
Not the wheels...
<raptop>
No, USAA, I already have health insurance through work
<raptop>
Percy's wheels should hold up better than Curiosity's I think?
<raptop>
But anyway, the whole overdesigned discourse and the need for more comms comes back to space access not beaing cheap&reliable
<egg|anbo|egg_>
context-free eggquotes: the problem is when I google « araignée » I get a lot of mygalomorphs and no beef
* egg|anbo|egg_
purrs at whitequark
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<whitequark>
hi egg
<SnoopJ>
!wpn whitequark
* galois
gives whitequark a lutetium annotation
<SnoopJ>
congrats on the launch (or whatever the right word is) of glasgow
<whitequark>
thanks!
<whitequark>
launch is the right word
<SnoopJ>
I was gushing to my girlfriend about it and how Things are Happening here in the Future
<SnoopJ>
(which was complicated because she debugs meat by profession, not silicon)
<raptop>
wait, debug meat like psychiatry, virology, or...?
<SnoopJ>
raptop, she's a veterinarian
<raptop>
ah
<SnoopJ>
she helps the meat be more meatyer
<whitequark>
:3
<SnoopJ>
I believe I was disassembling the pasta roller (I got a pasta roller!) at the time so I guess I had "take it apart and see how its innards work" on the brain
<SnoopJ>
the machine was assembled with all of the finish-protection plastic still applied to every surface, they drove screws right through it.
<SnoopJ>
!8 is plastic delicious?
<galois>
SnoopJ: no
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