03:24 <discord-> T​heSquirrelPatrol. — Question on planning a good launch to orbit for a lunar transfer (and presumably same concept for interplanetary). So far, I've been using the method of setting up on the pad, selecting moon-centered inertial, and time warping until the indicator on the navball is as close to the shaded 'equator' line on the navball as it's going to get, and then launch to the current inclination. That

03:49 <discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — For lunar missions, you don't really need a lunar-plane orbit

03:50 <discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — Soviets went to Moon from very, very inclined orbits

03:54 <discord-> T​heSquirrelPatrol. — Sure, but presumably there's a dV penalty on your TLI burn. This last one I did cost me over 100m/sec than the one I did before that, presumably because the divergence on my launch was greater. And I'd much rather spend that dV on the stage that's putting me into a parking orbit than the one I'm using for TLI

04:18 <discord-> l​pg. — there's no penalty on the TLI burn

04:19 <discord-> l​pg. — launching due-east is always optimal. what matters is picking the right LAN

05:13 <discord-> T​heSquirrelPatrol. — "what matters is picking the right LAN" Is there a preferred method for this? "Warp until the navball is as close as it gets" is not hugely precise, but it's been mostly working for me. I'd hope there is something between that and huge amounts of out-of-game math. I know mechjeb has the "launch to LAN" option, but I have no idea how to determine the number to put in there.

05:23 <discord-> s​cimas. — Transfer to Moon takes 3-4 days. Figure out where Moon will be in that time. That's one point, your ship and the center of Earth are two more points. Those three points form a plane. Launch in that plane and you will have an immediate transfer to Moon. That's not a lot of math, in fact eyeballing it works decently well too.

05:28 <discord-> l​pg. — while that works, do note that's completely different from "launching due east and picking the right LAN"

05:29 <discord-> l​pg. — it's "pick the inclination that will get you to the right LAN right now", which is very much _not_ optimal

05:40 <discord-> T​heSquirrelPatrol. — I should also note that all of the 5+ lunar missions I've done so far took 5+ days to get to the moon, not counting the one where I missed and got my real flyby on the second pass.... So far, I've been doing my timed launch, then putting around 3150m/sec into a tangential burn, playing with the manuever start until I have a close approach, and then adjusting the time and dV back and fort

06:51 <discord-> M​arsh. — What I'm doing right now which seems to work pretty well, is put the rocket on the pad, then do a sim and hyperedit a craft into a typical leo orbit, say 200x200 with the inclination of the launch site. Have mechjeb create a node and hyperedit the lan until the delta v is as low as itll go. Take that lan and put it into pvg. That ideal lan will change as the moon moves as you wait for the lan window

08:14 <discord-> B​utcher. — It's time optimal rather than fuel optimal.

08:16 <discord-> B​utcher. — I use a script which does as scimas describes, it gets me to the moon in 4 days for around 3140 m/s.

08:16 <discord-> B​utcher. — If the launch inclination is too high you can always wait a little for a better window.

08:18 <discord-> B​utcher. — For interplanetary I use a different technique, I calculate the required ejection velocity using a lambert solver and then pick an inclination and lan that gives a good transfer into that (using vector maths). I launch into that orbit. It's usually a due east launch but I've had moderately inclined solutions.

08:19 <discord-> B​utcher. — Using a solver means I can optimise for lowest ejection or lowest injection velocity.

19:19 <discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Can you optimize for the lowest sum of ejection/injection velocity?

19:28 <discord-> B​utcher. — Yes

23:14 <Webchat435> ok so i change the orbit of bop and now it is showing patched conics as if it were a vessel

23:14 <Webchat435> and i cant turn it off

23:14 <Webchat435> anyone know a fix?

23:15 <egg|laptop|egg> how are you changing the orbit of bop?

23:15 <egg|laptop|egg> (and why?)

23:16 <Webchat435> i installed opm

23:16 <Webchat435> and i need to fix the joolian system

23:16 <Webchat435> it was reset to the default orbit

23:16 <Webchat435> inclination = 165

23:16 <Webchat435> semiMajorAxis = 141820511.8491002

23:16 <egg|laptop|egg> OK, so far that makes sense, I suppose you are using the patch linked for that purpose in the documentation?

23:16 <Webchat435> yeah

23:17 <egg|laptop|egg> OK

23:17 <egg|laptop|egg> you are creating a new save when you change things, not reloading an existing one, right?

23:17 <Webchat435> nope

23:17 <egg|laptop|egg> well there is your problem

23:17 <Webchat435> i did create a new one

23:17 <discord-> l​pg. — you turned bop into a vessel and you want to _fix_ that? put some engines on it

23:17 <egg|laptop|egg> hah

23:18 <raptop> lgp: maybe they want to switch bop between prograde and retrograde on an as-desired basis?

23:18 <Webchat435> wait so am i supposed to create a new one or no?

23:18 <Webchat435> new save

23:18 <egg|laptop|egg> you are supposed to create a new one

23:18 <Webchat435> i did

23:18 <egg|laptop|egg> right, nope to a question with two alternatives in confusing

23:18 <egg|laptop|egg> s/in/is/

23:19 <Webchat435> trolololololo

23:19 <egg|laptop|egg> OK, if you seeing patched conics for a celestial furiously sounds like Principia isn’t there, do you still have the Principia UI ?

23:19 <Webchat435> yes

23:19 <egg|laptop|egg> (the above sentence no grammar but you get the idea)

23:20 <Webchat435> ok

23:20 <Webchat435> principa is working

23:20 <Webchat435> i think you will understand it more if i send you a screenshot

23:23 <Webchat435> do you have an account that i can send images to?

23:23 <egg|laptop|egg> just upload them on imgur or something?

23:24 <Webchat435> ok

23:24 <Webchat435> uh no

23:24 <Webchat435> its asking for my phone number

23:24 <Webchat435> im not doing that

23:24 <Webchat435> lmao

23:24 <Webchat435> brb

23:27 <egg|laptop|egg> uh imgur.com does not ask me for anything when uploading images (including in an incognito tab), so I’m not sure what is happening there

23:45 <raptop> o_O

23:51 <Webchat435> can i link it from discord?

23:51 <Webchat435> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/791452699039891489/791452776164884490/unknown.png?width=1151&height=632

23:51 <egg|laptop|egg> sure

23:52 <Webchat435> can you see the image?

23:52 <egg|laptop|egg> yes

23:52 <Webchat435> ok

23:53 <egg|laptop|egg> not sure what is going on here but your patch didn’t actually fix things, as evidenced by the apocalypse message

23:54 <Webchat435> well i only changed bop for now

23:54 <Webchat435> as a test

23:54 <egg|laptop|egg> ...

23:54 <Webchat435> because i kept messing up things

23:54 <Webchat435> lol

23:54 <egg|laptop|egg> if you try to do things halfway as a test and then immediately report bugs because you did half of your homework, you will encounter displeased eggs

23:55 <Webchat435> yeah but im pretty sure the game should never treat a celestial body as a vessel

23:55 <egg|laptop|egg> also it seems literally harder to change only bop’s orbit than to change the whole thing, given that we give you a file to change the whole thing

23:56 <Webchat435> this whole time i thought i was supposed to put each patch in a separate cfg

23:58 <egg|laptop|egg> no, you download the file called retrobop.cfg, it is called retrobop.cfg, you plop it somewhere in your GameData directory, and that is it