UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
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<SnoopJeDi> so, uh, I sent that weight simulator thing I made to the PI of the paper that inspired me, and she wants to know if I can come give a talk at West Point o.O
<UmbralRaptor> Grats, I think.
<SnoopJeDi> Trying to think of how I can tactfully say "thanks, I'm a grad student in an unrelated field with limited money so if you really want a non-expert to give a talk you mind footing the bill?"
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<SnoopJeDi> Not much going on in here at the moment, but...nerds. ?
<UmbralRaptor> There is quite a bit of silliness in here. Also a Principia dev.
<SnoopJeDi> And Kozai \o/
<UmbralRaptor> >_>
* UmbralRaptor has a legit reason to not be working on the kozai mechanism at the moment.
<FluffyFoxeh> nerds are cool ^^
<SnoopJeDi> I honestly don't really know what all the Kozai is all about other than that it's become a kspacademia meme.
<SnoopJeDi> Is it more related to your work or to principia, UmbralRaptor?
<SnoopJeDi> been a while since I've bugged you about what you're crunching away on
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: More principia, via Batygin and Brown (2016)
<SnoopJeDi> oh wow that recently
<UmbralRaptor> The Kozai mechanism is a way small objects get perturbed (Kozai himself looked at comets being pushed by Jupiter back in the 60s?). Batygin and Brown argued that Planet 9 was doing it to various KBOs.
<UmbralRaptor> Uh, the perturbed object trades off eccentricity for inclination (or vice-versa)
<SnoopJeDi> OH, Brown is @plutokiller?
<SnoopJeDi> Cool!
<UmbralRaptor> Yeah, he is.
<UmbralRaptor> So the idea came up that we could test it in KSP.
<SnoopJeDi> I never really dug into the details on that last year
<UmbralRaptor> But, uh, schoolwork happened, and currently my 64bit linux box is down.
<SnoopJeDi> work, uh, finds a way
<UmbralRaptor> Heh.
* UmbralRaptor is IRCing from a much less powerful computer. All hail the Core1Duo U2500!
<UmbralRaptor> But, uh, I might be able to attempt things on my work computer once the Principia can be built (again) on Macs.
<Ellied> I see your C2D U2500 and raise you a T7250
<Ellied> er, C1D
<Ellied> mine is a C2D
<Ellied> one of the old old laptops I didn't yet pull out of the closet has a Pentium III
<UmbralRaptor> Eek
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<kmath_> <nellanndee> Need a chaser after reading the news??? I got you pal https://t.co/k5SRstUQXz
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<egg|df|egg> !u ?
<Qboid> U+1F913 NERD FACE (?)
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: once #1419 gets merged it should build on mac, so watch that one
<Qboid> [#1419] title: MacOSX support | WIP WIP WIP WIP WIP... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1419
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<egg|phone|egg> UmbralRaptor: Observed the same cat again, further up the street
<egg|phone|egg> Also a new one
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<egg|work|egg> wait, why am I still marked as df
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<bofh> UmbralRaptor: ClF3 in a RuF6 container + like, a tripwire and a propane torch?
<bofh> (RuF6 melts at like 54degC, and ClF3 does not react with high oxidation state metal fluorides. One of the very few things it *doesn't* react with).
<egg|work|egg> bofh: didn't know about RuF6; but you'll have a hard time finding someone on this channel that doesn't know about ClF3, what with *ksp* academia (we like rockety things)
* xShadowx doesn't know about ClF3
<bofh> egg|work|egg: so uh
<bofh> context was 22:57:28 <@UmbralRaptor> Is it possible to make ClF3 traps? <_<
<bofh> and the above is a *probably* likely to work ClF3 trap.
<bofh> okay, very likely, since water oxidation is unlikely to affect structural integrity much given RuF6 is a weak fluorinating agent for H2O compared to RuF5
<Ellied> is there a gaseous, heavier-than-air chemical that won't react with ClF3? You could put it in a shallow pool made of RuF6 with the gas over top, and someone stepping in the pool (or just disturbing the gas enough) would be toast.
<bofh> so my first thought was UF6, lol.
<Ellied> um, that would probably do the trick
<bofh> Tungsten Hexafluoride would actually be even better.
<Ellied> perfect.
<UmbralRaptor> \o/
<bofh> Especially since the standard synthesis for it is "react W with F2 at 400degC" and a variant one is "react W with ClF3 at similar temperatures"
<Ellied> so like, periodically toss a red-hot bead of tungsten into the pool to replenish the gas
<Ellied> probably wouldn't work because it would come out too hot and blow away the gas layer
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<Ellied> you might have to make the pit impractically deep for the WF6 to adequately protect the ClF3 from the air
<Ellied> I mean it's still a better pit trap than just spikes at the bottom I guess
<bofh> "Unlike some other metal fluorides, WF6 is not a useful fluorinating agent nor is it a powerful oxidant." ooh perfect
<bofh> like the biggest issue is it condenses at 17.1degC so you'd need to do this in, like, a rainforest.
<SnoopJeDi> New GW observation just published: https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.118.221101
<SnoopJeDi> UmbralRaptor, this looks like a really good read, thanks for sharing
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: Blarg, no mention of an optical counterpart (in the abstract)
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: Er, wait. Sharing which thing?
<SnoopJeDi> The parametric resonance deal
<UmbralRaptor> Ah.
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a cone
<egg|work|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a Bernoulli set
<egg|work|egg> !wpn Ellied
* Qboid gives Ellied a dependent scalar with a knife attachment
<egg|work|egg> !wpn regex
* Qboid gives regex an unicode superpower
* egg|work|egg should probably head home
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn egg|phone|egg
* Qboid gives egg|phone|egg a Kordylewski rotor
<Ellied> bofh: I think the only place a trap like this would go unseen until it was too late is, like, some kind of heavy industrial plant, so you could probably find a warm enough place
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<egg|df|egg> !wpn Ellied
* Qboid gives Ellied a Аэрофлот superconducting denormal
<egg|df|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor an adaptive integrand
<egg|df|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a reactor
<egg|df|egg> why am I still df
<egg|df|egg> ... is this a game of DF
<egg|df|egg> ... is that why there were so many cats in the street this morning
<SnoopJeDi> ssshhhh the futurists will hear you
<egg|df|egg> ° c c
<UmbralRaptor> egg|df|egg: You are worried after discussing the simulation hypothesis.
<kmath_> <CurlOfGradient> phone calls < asynchronous communcation < atemporal communication < acausal communication
<SnoopJeDi> "translate from French"
<egg|df|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor an Ada statistic
<Ellied> that sounds like a Stross title
<Ellied> The Ada Statistic
<egg|df|egg> !wpn Ellied
* Qboid gives Ellied a post-order asterism
<UmbralRaptor> This briefing is classified DURANDAL CHERENKOV QUOKKA
<UmbralRaptor> (An Ada Statistic sounds like some weird numerical statistical analysis thing)
<egg|df|egg> postorder asterism: ⁎⁎ ⃰
<egg|df|egg> preorder asterism: ⃰⁎⁎
<egg|df|egg> inorder asterism: ⁂
<UmbralRaptor> ^_^
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: should I play some DF
<egg|df|egg> !u ⁎⁎ ⃰⁂
<Qboid> U+204E LOW ASTERISK (⁎)
<Qboid> U+204E LOW ASTERISK (⁎)
<Qboid> U+0020 SPACE (␠)
<Qboid> U+20F0 COMBINING ASTERISK ABOVE (◌⃰)
<Qboid> U+2042 ASTERISM (⁂)
<UmbralRaptor> egg|df|egg: Yes.
* egg|df|egg dwarves a fortress
<kmath_> <Newpa_Hasai> Today in unicode shenanigans: ?᷂ (U+1F40D Snake + U+1DC2 Combining Snake Below). Correct rendering not guaranteed.
<SnoopJeDi> oh neat, I'm leafing through a survey of cyclotrons around the world for prelim writing reasons and our local K500 is listed. This should not surprise me, but it does
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: also YIL that python raises eggsceptions on fp overflows/divisions by 0 >_<
* egg|df|egg sobs
<egg|df|egg> but not underflows!
* egg|df|egg sobs
<egg|df|egg> so that if you want to actually use floating point numbers you use numpy's floating point numbers, not the language's >_>
<UmbralRaptor> np.sqrt() also does some other suff better than math.sqrt() I want to say.
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: well, it doesn't except at you, it properly NaNs and infinities etc. (also has support for complex numbers but that's a separate discussion)
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: I may have verbed infinity
<UmbralRaptor> hrm
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: someone made a masterful beak dog leather low boot
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: *stares at #Kopernicus backlog*
<egg|df|egg> so they did their i18n using libs that attempt to do grammar and string concatenation? D':
<Thomas> They used lingoona
<Thomas> So yes
* egg|df|egg cries
* egg|df|egg bashes head against desk
<egg|df|egg> well what did I expect
<egg|df|egg> at least they didn't do the string concatenation directly themselves I guess
* egg|df|egg bashes laptop against head
<egg|df|egg> Thomas: any other daftness?
<egg|df|egg> Thomas: though tbh http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/62205-wip122-principia-version-catalan-released-2017-05-25-n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation/&page=30#comment-3076684 :-p
<Thomas> They integrated ConfigNode with the localization thingy so every time a value from a config node is parsed, all localization strings are checked (and an empty string array gets allocated)
<egg|df|egg> .
<egg|df|egg> .
<egg|df|egg> ..
<egg|df|egg> ...
<egg|df|egg> .....
<egg|df|egg> ........
<UmbralRaptor> lagomorphic elippses
<UmbralRaptor> (ellisoidal lagomorphs?)
<egg|df|egg> Thomas: https://xkcd.com/566/ KSP 1.2.2 was great, it's too bad they never made a version after that? :-p
<SnoopJeDi> egg|df|egg, I was chitchatting with someone who attended PyCon this year and apparently there was a talk about how Python's native NaNs are weird and not really IEEE NaNs
<egg|df|egg> SnoopJeDi: frankly if you're going to exception out on overflow, the NaNs are the least of your concerns
<SnoopJeDi> If I'm doing anything where I'd care, I'm already offloading it to numpy anyway :P
<egg|df|egg> SnoopJeDi: yeah, but it really becomes just about *anything* though
<egg|df|egg> SnoopJeDi: like try evaluating exp(-1/x^2)
<egg|df|egg> assuming a faithfully rounded exp and IEEE arithmetic, just do it as written and you're happy
<SnoopJeDi> as written it's got a bitwise XOR in it :P
<egg|df|egg> SnoopJeDi: $\mathrm{e}^{-\frac{1}{x^2}}$ here you go
<egg|df|egg> with native python floats: handle overflow of the square, division by 0, overflow of the exp :D
<SnoopJeDi> well yea
<egg|df|egg> (the function is fairly nicely conditioned too, so you don't have to worry in IEEE arithmetic)
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<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: an elf returned with a quire taken from starwatch of oxen, but this time is staying for a long-term scholarship
<egg|df|egg> so... returning the book!
* egg|df|egg pokes UmbralRaptor with cats
<UmbralRaptor> egg|df|egg: Perhaps the book convinced them to join the research?
<egg|df|egg> probably!
<icefire> some people are really passionate about their immersive skyrim mods
<SnoopJeDi> can't even bed the birds? what's the POINT
<SnoopJeDi> One of the authors at PCGamer took another stab at "Skyrim has a lot of mods, let's check some out!" with a focus on adult mods and...pretty quickly realized the bundle of weirdness he'd stuck his nose into
* egg|df|egg gives UmbralRaptor a pond turtle shell helm
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn egg|df|egg
* Qboid gives egg|df|egg a 2N3906
<egg|df|egg> UmbralRaptor: so, should I prepare an entrance to the caverns (with adequate precaution to deal with the forgotten stegosaurid)
* egg|df|egg stabs the stegosaurid with a forgetful functor
<egg|df|egg> !g forgetful functor
<Qboid> egg|df|egg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgetful_functor [Forgetful functor - Wikipedia] (11200 results found, took 0.63s)
<Iskierka> SnoopJeDi, I bet he didn't even get into the half of it
<Iskierka> (I haven't and I can no longer add content mods as I'm running out of assignable memory and failing to load textures)
<UmbralRaptor> egg|df|egg: yes.
<SnoopJeDi> Iskierka, I haven't made it past the first ~30 minutes of gameplay, myself :/
<egg|df|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a quiet quadratic e_14159
<egg|df|egg> bofh: btw, principia has a bug that smells of Fun numerics >_>
<bofh> egg|df|egg: oh?
<egg|df|egg> ill-conditioned rotation computation? cancellation? I don't know, but something weird is happening that's visible in game: #1307
<Qboid> [#1307] title: Vessels pull away from planet during physical timewarp | It appears that vessels with running engines want to orient away from the planet.... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1307
<egg|df|egg> bofh: when something numericsy winds up at that high a level you're in for a fun ride tracking it down
<egg|df|egg> might be a cancellation, might be the rotations being screwy too...
<whitequark> !wpn egg|df|egg
* Qboid gives egg|df|egg an insulating magma
<egg|df|egg> a magma!
* egg|df|egg pets the magma in the binary operation
<egg|df|egg> (there's not much else to pet in a magma)
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<FluffyFoxeh> oops
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<bofh> egg|df|egg: okay, what's a high-level description of the effects?
<egg|df|egg> bofh: well the thing that shows up in the bug: vessels turning away from the nearest planet
<egg|df|egg> bofh: none of the things we do should ever turn the vessel, if done in arbitrary precision
<egg|df|egg> a kea is fighting my dwarves
<bofh> Huh.
<bofh> Turning *away*?
<egg|df|egg> yes
<egg|df|egg> they point away from the planet
<egg|df|egg> bofh: see the twitch video linked
<egg|df|egg> bofh: or maccollo's YouTube video
<egg|df|egg> hmmm, it seems that's only when under acceleration
<egg|df|egg> sehr interessant
<bofh> huh. interesting. I'll take a look at it in a bit.
<egg|df|egg> yup, both instances with running engines
<egg|df|egg> and one is stock but physics warp (long timestep)
<egg|df|egg> the other is RSS (high distances from the planet)
<Iskierka> what does principia do that might involve torques or rotations?
<egg|df|egg> something is rotten in the realm of intrinsic acceleration
<egg|df|egg> Iskierka: nothing :-p
<egg|df|egg> we want to handle that someday, but for now we rotate not
<Iskierka> hrm. maybe something in polar coordinate conversion? Though that shouldn't be near fast enough for a noticeable effect even amplified
<egg|df|egg> Iskierka: synapsid!
<egg|df|egg> Iskierka: ow, missed it
* egg|df|egg gives Iskierka a powder acceleration stage
* egg|df|egg gives UmbralRaptor a secondary cryogenic stage
<egg|df|egg> s/secondary/superior
<Qboid> egg|df|egg meant to say: /me gives UmbralRaptor a superior cryogenic stage
<egg|df|egg> s/gen/techn
<Qboid> egg|df|egg meant to say: /me gives UmbralRaptor a secondary cryotechnic stage
<egg|df|egg> ... stupid bot
<egg|df|egg> a superior cryotechnic stage
<egg|df|egg> literally translating things is fun