UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<bofh> whitequark: so basically what happened was a hydrogen BLEVE at some absurd PSI, it seems
<bofh> jesus fuck
<bofh> also I like how there was somehow NO PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE ON THE REACTOR
<bofh> "...called a 'Phosgene Shed'..."
<bofh> "...a total of ONE KILOGRAM OF PHOSGENE had been released to the atmosphere..."
<whitequark> that's actually way better than it could have been
<whitequark> imagine if the valve was left open
<whitequark> you'd have one ton of phosgene
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark's cat
* Qboid gives whitequark's cat a triangulation
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a greening keyboard
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a variable with a set attachment
* egg|zzz|egg zzz
<egg|zzz|egg> goodnight
<bofh> whitequark: jesus fuck
<bofh> whitequark: well we already saw what happened in 1924 Germany
<whitequark> bofh: actually, the same thing happened in 1947 in texas
<whitequark> it was the 4th largest non-nuclear explosion in human history
<whitequark> (or maybe 2nd largest, depending on how you count)
<whitequark> and the largest unintentional one
<bofh> wow looking at the MSDS for methyl mercaptan
<bofh> I had no idea it was this toxic
* UmbralRaptor reads a bit of scrollback.
<Qboid> UmbralRaptor: egg left a message for you in #kspacademia [19.06.2017 18:32:14]: "https://twitter.com/DamienKempf/status/876794254944870401"
<kmath> <DamienKempf> Gauging the Universe - Animals holding astronomical instruments [BL, Burney 275, 14th c.] https://t.co/mxEH5dB2gt
<UmbralRaptor> bofh, whitequark: AAAAAAAAAA
<UmbralRaptor> egg|zzz|egg: meet Falafel https://goo.gl/photos/FiCrEffurvSZQ6L68
<UmbralRaptor> (my brother named his cat Falafel. Seriously.)
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<Iskierka> sounds like a good cat name
<UmbralRaptor> Iskierka: please let that be a prank.
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<kmath> YouTube - Animation of Fire at Chevron's Richmond Refinery, August 6, 2012
<whitequark> refinery personnel discovered a leak of diesel from a pipe at 232°C
<kmath> <SuperASASSN> That is quite a map! "Telescopes survive onslaught by Frye Fire" https://t.co/EjcD7qxQej https://t.co/bJAq50ohHB
<whitequark> you think they shut down the plant? no. they called firemen, who started to POKE THE PIPE WITH A SHARP STICK
<UmbralRaptor> AAAAAAΑΑA
<whitequark> when the leak worsened, the firemen decided to USE HIGH-PRESSURE WATER TO STRIP INSULATION FROM THE PIPE SO THAT THE LEAK BECOMES MORE APPARENT
<whitequark> they also managed to inadvertently trap one of the firemen inside a fire engine surrounded by a massive hydrocarbon cloud, that ignited
<whitequark> (he ran away and escaped unscathed)
<whitequark> oh and the pipe hasn't been changed since 1976. it was inspected in 2002 and recommended for replacement since it was thinning by that point but... no one did that
<bofh> whitequark: WHAT. WHAT
<bofh> WHAT
<bofh> ARE THESE FIREMEN STARK-RAVING MAD?!?
<whitequark> the other meaning of "fireman"
<bofh> the Ancient Rome meaning
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<bofh> whitequark: wow somehow they all survived despite being trapped in the fireball.
<UmbralRaptor> Lethality overflow error
<kmath> <DarthPatel> There are good astro acronyms and bad ones. And then there's DROP BEARS. #KeplerSciCon #KeplerWeek https://t.co/vwE1W946O4
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<whitequark> oh good, more cat diarrhea
<FluffyFoxeh> ew
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* UmbralRaptor wonders if whitequark will need to bring a hazmat suit home.
* UmbralRaptor is confused.
<UmbralRaptor> Uh, can you use something like Shore's algorithm, or is the quantum part silly?
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor an oxidizing dodecahedron
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: kitty!
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: ow @ the arxiv article
<UmbralRaptor> Yeah, it's troubling.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: how is the kitty?
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: D:
<UmbralRaptor> kitty is friendly, but seems to be missing my brother.
<kmath> <bofh453> Distressingly accurate. https://t.co/LKTDldoDUU
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: I'm surprised that it be that and not 20.000000298023223876953125 %
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a skew catenoid
<egg|zzz|egg> kitty?
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<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: I'm confused by this plaquenil discussion; if the cat had somehow gone out of its way to import malaria from somewhere in the region, wouldn't it likely be chloroquine-resistant anyway?
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<whitequark> that's not about malaria
<whitequark> but about bartonella
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<egg|phone|egg> Ah
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn bofh, UmbralRaptor, whitequark, et al.
* Qboid gives bofh, UmbralRaptor, whitequark, et al. a fancy soliton-like mutex
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<egg|work|egg> !tell bofh so I think if t is a trivector and b is a bivector, the product tb is the vector defined by ⟨tb, w⟩ = ⟨t, b∧w⟩ for all vectors w?
<Qboid> egg|work|egg: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<egg|work|egg> oh hey fiora came across that one https://twitter.com/FioraAeterna/status/876831629699817473
<kmath> <FioraAeterna> remove cat before flight https://t.co/3JSfZRggD6
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<egg|work|egg> oh wow that's a lot of join/part spam from my phone
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<whitequark> bofh: "public workers in 26 states are not covered by OSHA regulations"
<whitequark> "we were alarmed to discover literally tons of [combustible iron dust] throughout the facility"
<whitequark> that is the first time I recall CSB videos using the word "literally" and they do not fuck around.
<whitequark> the plant had up to FOUR INCHES of iron dust on every horizontal surface
<whitequark> christ
<whitequark> oh my god they have a video of hydrogen flare with iron dust from the plant air continually burning up
<SnoopJeDi> another day, another "holy crap we have to change every single 100-level textbook ever" moment for biology: https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/close-view-dna-replication-yields-surprises
<egg|afk|egg> whitequark: Ꙩ_ꙩ
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<kmath> <johnregehr> I might have just texted this to family members in the context of being hungry for fried chicken https://t.co/Pksp0q5QTe
<kmath> YouTube - ロボット相撲
<bofh> whitequark: COMBUSTIBLE IRON DUST HOLY FUCK
<Qboid> bofh: egg|work|egg left a message for you in #kspacademia [20.06.2017 09:57:00]: "so I think if t is a trivector and b is a bivector, the product tb is the vector defined by ⟨tb, w⟩ = ⟨t, b∧w⟩ for all vectors w?"
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<bofh> I *think* so? Se.
<bofh> Sec*
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<egg|nomz|egg> bofh: oh I found the video where they scale up a 1 l reactor to 10 kl
<egg|nomz|egg> *boggle*
<bofh> egg|nomz|egg: yeah, that's the MCMT one. with the reaction of "let's mix hydrocarbons with molten sodium in a vessel that has no pressure release, oh btw did I mention the reaction releases hydrogen gas and is a runaway exotherm?"
<egg|nomz|egg> bofh: well it did have some sort of emergency pressure release rupture disc thing that blew 10 s before the eggsplosion
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<bofh> egg: why the hell did it take that long to blow?
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<egg> bofh: eggstremely evil idea: overload unary operator* on multivectors to represent the Hodge star :D
<egg> cat, but somehow the images seem to be broken in some places on the synapsid site? https://mastodon.social/@scanlime/10034367
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<kmath> YouTube - Fresh flexy gears, the world is depressing, let's solder LEDs @scanlime-in-progress
<bofh> "Acute Health Effects: Ingestion: Low acute toxicity. Ingestion is a minor route of entry for intended use of this product." from the MSDS for an HP LaserJet toner cartridge.
<egg> bofh: :D
<FluffyFoxeh> hehe
<bofh> egg: hey that lets me implement Maxwell's Equations very simply so you should do it!
<egg> bofh: hmm how so?
<egg> bofh: (I emphatically don't have the Hodge star in my libs, to do something non-orientation-preserving you have to go through .coordinates() because that's evil)
<egg> bofh: which adds to why *bivector being the hodge star would be evil, it's unconspicuous (mix it with pointers to vectors or optional vectors and you've got a really silly trap :-p)
<egg> s/non-orientation-preserving/orientation-dependent/
<Qboid> egg meant to say: bofh: (I emphatically don't have the Hodge star in my libs, to do something orientation-dependent you have to go through .coordinates() because that's evil)
<egg> bofh: oh, with the eleggtromagnetic tensor?
<egg> bofh: yeah, my libs don't do relativity though, Vector is 3-dimensional :_p
<egg> bofh: if I did do relativity I'd need to distinguish linear forms and vectors... the type structure would get really tricky :D
<egg> bofh: Principia is a classical physics lib (and KSP mod), I guess eventually I could make a mod called Feldgleichungen :D
<bofh> damnit implement Minkowski space already
<bofh> :P
<bofh> LOL
<egg> bofh: but yeah, in classical physics you don't really have a reason to be orientation-dependent
<bofh> Okay, point.
<egg> bofh: I have to admit I don't understand that fancy formulation of Maxwell's equation (but then do I understand the usual one anyway, cf recent xkcd?), I guess the fact that it's a Hodge star on moar dimensions means the same concerns don't apply?
<egg> even with relativity you shouldn't be orientation-dependent, right? (otoh something something something CPT if you do QFT)
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<bofh> and no, you're indeed not orientation-dependent
<egg> (but how do you get Hodge stars? those need an orientation right?)
<egg> bofh: also yeah, I had seen formulations with Hodge stars at the bottom of this too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_equations#Alternative_formulations
<egg> dF=0 <<< how the hell are you hiding Maxwell in there >_>
<bofh> math.stanford.edu/~conrad/diffgeomPage/handouts/maxwell.pdf or users.aims.ac.za/~solomon/akason.pdf for a bit more in-depth/elementary treatment
<egg> bofh: nah, I mean, I can see why it happens, but still it feels odd to have them fit on half a line :-p
<bofh> dF=0 is equivalent to d_sB = 0 and d_sE + \partial_0 B = 0, where d_s is the spatial exterior derivative
<bofh> true :P
<bofh> (and you can do the rest from definition of exterior derivative, I'm not writing it out :P)
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<egg> bofh: also, on the subject of pedestrian classical physics, it is very odd to see the elementary stuff that's always done with cross products written rigourously with respect to orientation-independence
<bofh> the Hodge star gives you the inhomogeneous version of the above
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<bofh> (in the sense that we take the Hodge dual of F, compute its exterior derivative and then Hodge-star back and set that equal to our charge terms)
<bofh> egg: oh? example?
<egg> written out in the Principia codebase there's the Coriolis acceleration, gimme a minute; I was working out the vector between the closest points of two lines defined by four points, that one involves trivector*bivector :D (not typed/implemented yet)
<egg> those * are the action of bivectors on vectors, you'd write that as cross
<egg> other crosses (not in this file), those that give you the Ωs, are |Wedge|s
<egg> bofh: and so you get some crosses that turn into something that's morally like a multiplication (and in that code looks like one, same operator), others that turn into something much fancier
<bofh> ahhhhhhh
<bofh> Nice.
<bofh> Very nice.
<egg> bofh: lemme unfold the paper in my back pocket, I have the vector between the closest points of two lines defined by four points, it's cute
<bofh> ooh, nice. do scan/retype plz :P
<egg> you have a line through K and C, and a line through Q1 and Q2; the shortest vector from KC to Q1Q2 (this is obviously orientation independent) is [sound of egg typing]
<egg> ((Q2-K)∧(C-K)∧(Q2-Q1))((C-K)∧(Q2-Q1))
<egg> ――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
<egg> ⟨(C-K)∧(Q2-Q1),(C-K)∧(Q2-Q1)⟩
<egg> bofh: ^
<egg> (yes the bottom is a squared norm, but I wrote an inner product because I was taking care throughout the calculations never to take a norm
<egg> )
<egg> bofh: the multiplication at the top is between a trivector and a bivector, quite plainly, I think that can justifiably be written as an actual multiplication (and thus operator* in the principia libs), but I'm not sure
<egg> hmm, it does seem fishy to write it as multiplication
<egg> I can't find a case where both associations are correct and are different, but there are cases where it doesn't associate with the other multiplications
<egg> let t be a trivector, b a bivector, v a vector, t(bv) is defined, (tb)v is not
<egg> and t(bv) = (tb)∧v
<egg> similarly if w is a vector, (tv)w is defined, t(vw) is not, and (tv)w = t(v∧w)
<egg> bofh: so the multiplication of a trivector with a bivector or vector isn't a multiplication; what is it then :-p
<Iskierka> so I forgot to put the accelerometer in the picar, and had to fudge around for like 40 minutes getting it in
<Iskierka> I peek though and realise SCL/SDA are swapped compared to how I thought
<Iskierka> :V
<egg> bofh: I like how I'm figuring things out about what should be elementary properties of multivectors in 3d not by studying algebra but by doing geometry with my strongly-typed lib
<bofh> Ooh, sec.
<bofh> Also, no, that makes perfect sense. Geometry > algebraic bashing
<bofh> 22:05:35 <@egg> bofh: so the multiplication of a trivector with a bivector or vector isn't a multiplication; what is it then :-p
<bofh> weird
<egg> bofh: hey, algebraic bashing is fun too :-p
<egg> I miss math lectures
<bofh> > algebraic bashing is fun too :-p
<bofh> we are no longer on speaking terms :P
<egg> :-p
<egg> something something Bourbaki
<bofh> on a serious note, it amuses me to what lengths I went to avoid algebraic tedium in my complex analysis class
<bofh> often this involved bootstrapping a theorem beyond the scope of the course and then just using it as an all-purpose hammer.
<egg> hah
<bofh> and like, complex analysis is sufficiently nice that this works amazingly well.
<egg> complex analysis *is* nice
<egg> bofh: but tbh had I not undergone a fair amount of algebraic bashing I wouldn't even have realized the need to distinguish all those fancy multivectors and why bivectors multiply vectors, and principia's geometry lib would be a sad place :-p
<egg> (otoh they currently have a bug! trivector * bivector and trivector * vector aren't multiplications!)
<egg> (what the hell are they)
<bofh> I think some nasty exterior product?
<egg> Vector BofhNastyExteriorProduct(Trivector left, Bivector right); :-p
<bofh> LOL
<bofh> Accurate
<egg> bofh: cursory googling suggests some demonic inner product between trivector and bivector? Ꙩ_ꙩ
<bofh> Eew.
<bofh> (Also brb 30mins)
<egg> ... now I'm diving into part of Wikipedia articles where the musical isomorphism come up ...
<egg> oh the musical isomorphisms are the isomorphisms induced by the inner product between V and V*? I was looking for a name for that just today
<egg> (well there's also "transpose" I guess :-p)
<bofh> oh they're *actually* called musical isomorphisms?
<egg> bofh: ah, the Hodge star not breaking all the things wrt orientation is probably because the symmetric bilinear form has signature -1
<egg> (on the Maxwell stuff)
<egg> whereas if you have an inner product, the Hodge star wrt *that* is evil
<egg> also 4 being even
<egg> re. trivector*bivector and trivector*vector, this probably has to do with the geometric product, I had been trying to avoid having to understand that >_>
<egg> (it seems to associate with wedge of all things?)