UmbralRaptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fano. We currently target 1.3.1, 1.4.x, 1.5.1, and 1.6.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<discord->
neph. — What the heck is going on
<discord->
neph. — I'm not burning at all
<discord->
neph. — In fact I'm in upper atmo
<discord->
neph. — yet my apopasis and periapsis are both rising
<discord->
neph. — And this my continously growing/looping orbit?
<discord->
Kurgut. — I've experienced this couple times, now , text entry boxes in mission planner sometimes don't respond. You can select values, but when you type, nothing happens.
<discord->
Kurgut. — Seems to happen when trajectory time out, but I'm not sure..
<discord->
Kurgut. — needs to use the sliders a bit to "unlock" again the entry boxes.
<discord->
Kurgut. — I've experienced this couple times, now , text entry boxes in mission planner sometimes don't respond. You can select values, but when you type, nothing happens.
<discord->
Kurgut. — Seems to happen when trajectory times out, but I'm not sure.. (edited)
<discord->
Kurgut. — need to use the sliders a bit to "unlock" again the entry boxes. (edited)
<discord->
Kurgut. — I've experienced this couple times now , text entry boxes in mission planner sometimes don't respond. You can select values, but when you type, nothing happens.
<discord->
Kurgut. — Seems to happen when trajectory times out, but I'm not sure.. (edited)
<discord->
Kurgut. — not a big deal tho..
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[Principia] pleroy pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/fjEuE
<discord->
egg. — @neph yeah, Trajectories will display osculating orbits, and will do so in the wrong reference frame. I really don't recommend using trajectories if you're just getting started with Principia, it will immensely confuse you.
<discord->
egg. — @neph yeah, Trajectories will display osculating orbits, and will do so in the wrong reference frame. I really don't recommend using Trajectories if you're just getting started with Principia, it will immensely confuse you. (edited)
<discord->
egg. — @neph to a large extent, we try to do the same thing as Trajectories (we also display trajectories in various reference frames), and the differences in gravity and the independent choice of reference frame will turn things into an utter mess if you have both.
<discord->
Kurgut. — iirc, there's some setting in trajectory window, so you see your trajectory in a more conventional centered inertial referential. would need to check
<discord->
egg. — @Kurgut yeah but again, that's obviously independent from the Principia plotting frame setting
<discord->
Kurgut. — sure
<discord->
egg. — people who are starting with Principia generally get slightly confused by the reference frame stuff, another mod playing the same trick on you at the same time is a guaranteed path to madness
<discord->
Kurgut. — sure again.
<discord->
egg. — see e.g. @Sir Mortimer's starting experience with Principia somewhere in the backlog
<discord->
Kurgut. — sure again² :p
<discord->
egg. — also some of you may have noticed that Fatou is out
<discord->
Kurgut. — uses ESL1, then 2 moon passes on the way back (one could be enough, but is not allowed by my badly chosen launch window, so needed 2)
<discord->
Kurgut. — theoretically, without any TCM after ejection.
<discord->
Kurgut. — I didn't really plan, the first one I wanted to do was a more complex one, which combines the one I did, and the phasing thing.
<discord->
Kurgut. — So you use the Moon to eject, and save ~70/100 m/s Δv.
<discord->
Kurgut. — but timing gets a bit complicated :p
<discord->
Kurgut. — it wasn't done so far irl yet, iirc (edited)
<discord->
egg. — iirc you *can* do an inner resonance transfer in RSS, but it's costlier than an outer resonance transfer (where the sun helps) and takes many passes, much more than in stock
<discord->
egg. — see the roman paper
<discord->
Kurgut. — yep, but can you capture for free?
<discord->
Kurgut. — I didn't manage so far
<discord->
egg. — that I don't know
<discord->
Kurgut. — And I never saw a reference to this kind of free capture in the bunch of paper I red too..
<discord->
Kurgut. — yeah, I red that. but doesn't capture for free. otherwise, it's really good if for L1/L2 targeted orbits
<discord->
Kurgut. — no
<discord->
Kurgut. — I red quite a lot from Belbruno/Toputto (*Hiten*)
<discord->
Kurgut. — also some early "non-practical solutions" for a 100 years ballistic capture to Mars :p
<discord->
Kurgut. — btw, If you're tired of paper, I've found this lecture by E. Belbruno himself about Moon/mars low energy transfer/ballistic capture :
<discord->
Kobymaru. — Finally decent FPS while flying maneuvers
<discord->
Kobymaru. — Now they're gonna be less accurate because time goes so quick that the shutdown is easier to miss 😅
<discord->
Damien. — MJ executor when
<discord->
Kobymaru. — Somebody told me there's a way you can already use it
<discord->
Kobymaru. — create maneuver, set to inertial, close principia
<discord->
Damien. — yeah that's true
<discord->
Damien. — it's not perfect though
<discord->
Kobymaru. — non-inertially fixed is more accurate and more efficient
<discord->
Kobymaru. — so yeah
<discord->
Standecco. — I'm experimenting with the JNSQ system in universe sandbox
<discord->
Standecco. — I've recreated the kerbin - mun - minmus system and I'm trying out various resonances
<discord->
Standecco. — so far, a 1:1 mun-minmus with minmus at 0.5 eccentricity (basically a cruithne orbit around earth) didn't work
<discord->
Standecco. — placing minmus around mun's L5 seems to be stable for 150 years, with no signs of troubles
<discord->
Standecco. — but I'm not sure I like that solution
<oeuf>
if you feel like messing around with principia code you can write a command-line utility to analyse that and get the game out of the loop
<oeuf>
restarting KSP gets old fast
<discord->
Standecco. — I'll have to check if it's stable in gmae
<oeuf>
that's irrelevant
<oeuf>
you can just check it with principia
<discord->
Standecco. — without starting ksp?
<oeuf>
principia is the thing that determines its evolution
<oeuf>
yes, KSP has nothing to do with anything
<discord->
Standecco. — I'm not able to write code more complex than a calculator
<oeuf>
yeah then that's a problem
<discord->
Standecco. — because that's the most complex thing I've ever done
<discord->
Standecco. — I've tested a few configurations both in ksp and universe sandbox and they seem to behave very closely
<discord->
Standecco. — so I think that both might be interchangeable
<discord->
Standecco. — unless there is a very simple way to use principia
<oeuf>
I actually wrote the first draft of principia based on a standalone utility I made to analyse NovaSilisko's thingy https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162200-wip131-14x-151-161-170-principia%E2%80%94version-fatou-released-2019-06-03%E2%80%94n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation-axial-tilt/&page=50&tab=comments#comment-3573125
<oeuf>
Standecco: gregrox has obtained very inconsistent results between US2 and Principia so I don't really trust it much
<oeuf>
not sure what's going on in US2, whether it interprets the initial state differently or uses integrators whose errors tend towards stability (that's a thing), not really interested in spending time there
<discord->
Standecco. — ouch
<discord->
Standecco. — sadly writing a custom tool is out of the question
<discord->
Standecco. — I'd have to learn everything from scratch
<oeuf>
that's not a problem per se
<oeuf>
it just means it'll take you a while
<discord->
Standecco. — do you have any idea on why the cruithne orbit wasn't stable?
<discord->
Standecco. — is it not possible in a 4-body environment (sun,kerbin,moon,minmus) instead of a 3-body environment (sun,earth,cruithne)?
<oeuf>
I have no idea what you're talking about
<oeuf>
that seems to be a recurring problem when it comes to custom solar systems, people assume I know about them
<discord->
Standecco. — well, this is not a custom solar system
<discord->
Standecco. — cruithne is a real asteroid and the kerbin-mun-minmus system is the stock one
<discord->
Standecco. — the planet pack which I'm trying to fix (JNSQ) is a 2.7x rescale and revamp of the stock system, and with principia minmus drifts away in just 1 or 2 years
<discord->
Standecco. — just as cruithne has a 1:1 resonance with earth, I wanted to put minmus in a 1:1 resonance with the mun
<oeuf>
yeah with the sun being around that seems tricky
<oeuf>
e.g. on the Moon, the sun has a massive influence (see the precessions of the orbit of the moon)
<oeuf>
not sure how exactly that planet pack ends up rescaling kerbin and the mun in terms of masses to lengths, it sounds like minmus just ends up too far away
<oeuf>
bear in mind that you're in a completely different situation, the sun dominates for a very long time in the solar system; Kerbin very quickly ceases to dominate the dynamics
<oeuf>
(because the sun)
<oeuf>
note that that cruithne orbit is very much a heliocentric ellipse; perturbation due to the earth is minor, and its dynamics are primarily dictated by the sun
<oeuf>
you can't have that if your problem is that you're to far from Kerbin to start with
<oeuf>
(you can't have that with respect to Kerbin that is)
<discord->
Standecco. — I'll have to try more with L5 then
<discord->
Standecco. — unless I try putting it in kerbin's L5
<oeuf>
did they keep the Kerbin-mun mass ratio the same?=
<oeuf>
s/=//
<discord->
Standecco. — kerbin is 5.12 moon masses and mun is 0.0464 moon masses
<discord->
Standecco. — not sure how it is in stock
<oeuf>
;rpn 0.0464 5.12 /
<kmath>
oeuf: 0.0090625
<oeuf>
;rpn 6.5138398e10 3.5316000e12 /
<kmath>
oeuf: 0.018444443878129
<discord->
Standecco. — ;rpn 1 2 /
<oeuf>
okay so the mass ratio changed, in the "lighter mun" direction
<discord->
Standecco. — bot commands don't work through relay, sad
<discord->
Standecco. — if the mun is lighter it's better, right?
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[Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2192: Correctly handle the case where a single Visual Studio version is installed - https://git.io/fjEr3
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[Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2192: Correctly handle the case where a single Visual Studio version is installed - https://git.io/fjEr3
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco what is this talk of removing principia
<discord->
Kurgut. — as you said, heresy
<discord->
Kurgut. — !ban standecco
<discord->
egg. — @Standecco can't you just put minmus on a lower orbit?
<discord->
Standecco. — I've removed it only from 1 of my 4 installs I swear
<discord->
egg. — if it runs away it sounds like it's just too far up
<discord->
egg. — if it's getting kicked out that's a different matter
<discord->
Standecco. — putting it lower results in the moon destroying its orbit
<discord->
egg. — ah
<discord->
Standecco. — I've tried many combinations
<discord->
egg. — what about that L4/5 solution?
<discord->
Standecco. — I didn't manage to put minmus in the right point
<discord->
egg. — yeah that's tricky with elements
<discord->
Standecco. — I don't know if kopernicus' mean anomaly is in radians or degrees
<discord->
egg. — radians
<discord->
egg. — it's KSP's
<discord->
Standecco. — half of the way there then
<discord->
egg. — for some reason they use radians for the mean anomaly and degrees for all other angles
<discord->
egg. — KSP!
<discord->
Standecco. — I guess that not using radians for mean anomaly would've been harder
<discord->
egg. — not particularly
<discord->
Standecco. — well, not for a computer
<discord->
Standecco. — ok it's just random
<discord->
egg. — you should never assume that KSP does anything for a rational reason
<discord->
egg. — lest the search for that reason become the loss of your sanity
<discord->
Standecco. — what is the mean anomaly "reference"? Where does the angle start?
<discord->
egg. — periapsis
<discord->
egg. — there's a broken angle that goes `origin of right ascension ---right ascension of ascending node Ω---> ascending node [angle is broken here by the inclination] ---argument of periapsis ω---> periapsis ---anomaly---> (position if for true anomaly, mean position for mean anomaly)`
<discord->
egg. — true anomaly is customarily written ν, mean anomaly M
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[Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2192: Correctly handle the case where a single Visual Studio version is installed - https://git.io/fjEr3
<discord->
Standecco. — what exact is the mean position?
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[Principia] ... and 8 more commits.
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[Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2192: Correctly handle the case where a single Visual Studio version is installed - https://git.io/fjEif
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[Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2192: Correctly handle the case where a single Visual Studio version is installed - https://git.io/fjEr3
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[Principia] eggrobin pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/fjEiR
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[Principia] eggrobin 88634bc - Correctly handle the case where a single Visual Studio version is installed
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[Principia] eggrobin 2432e63 - quote the semicolon
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[Principia] eggrobin c528690 - Merge pull request #2192 from eggrobin/vswhere Correctly handle the case where a single Visual Studio version is installed
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[Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2194: Upgrade the solution to Visual Studio 16 as well - https://git.io/fjEij
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[Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2194: Upgrade the solution to Visual Studio 16 as well - https://git.io/fjEij
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[Principia] eggrobin pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/fjEPc
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[Principia] eggrobin 9c250e0 - Upgrade the solution to Visual Studio 16 as well
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[Principia] eggrobin 8f16e18 - Merge pull request #2194 from eggrobin/upgrade-sln Upgrade the solution to Visual Studio 16 as well
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[Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2194: Upgrade the solution to Visual Studio 16 as well - https://git.io/fjEij