UmbralRaptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fano. We currently target 1.3.1, 1.4.x, 1.5.1, and 1.6.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — @egg Was re: changing the start epoch. For Principia there is no need for me to adjust UT, it's fine to set the definition UT=0 (loose paraphrase of your earlier instructions). However, for non-Principia, it looks to be a real pain to translate each planet's epoch value on a per-save basis. It appears to work just by properly adjusting FlightState.UT or Planetarium.UT once at the very start of t
<discord-> D​RVeyl. —
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — I have a slight preference for not making the two techniques completely different. So I was trying to ask how risky it is to adjust the initial value of UT prior to Principia's first serialization on a new game.
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — @egg Was re: changing the start epoch. For Principia it's fine to set the definition UT=0 (loose paraphrase of your earlier instructions). However, for non-Principia, adjusting each celestial body's epoch field per-save looks very unpleasant. Instead, properly adjusting FlightState.UT or Planetarium.UT once at the very start of the save seems to be sufficient
<discord-> D​RVeyl. —
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — I have a slight preference for not making the two techniques completely different. So I was trying to ask how risky it is to adjust the initial value of UT prior to Principia's first serialization on a new game. (edited)
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — @egg Was re: changing the start epoch. For Principia it's fine to set the definition UT=0 (loose paraphrase of your earlier instructions). However, for non-Principia, adjusting each celestial body's epoch field per-save looks very unpleasant. Instead, properly adjusting FlightState.UT or Planetarium.UT once at the very start of the save seems to be sufficient.
<discord-> D​RVeyl. —
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — I [slightly] prefer not making the two techniques completely different. I was trying to ask how risky it is to adjust the initial value of UT prior to Principia's first serialization on a new game. (edited)
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — @egg Was re: changing the start epoch. For Principia it's fine to set the definition UT=0 (loose paraphrase of your earlier instructions). However, for non-Principia, adjusting each celestial body's epoch field per-save looks very unpleasant. Instead, properly adjusting FlightState.UT or Planetarium.UT once at the very start of the save seems to be sufficient.
<discord-> D​RVeyl. —
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — I [slightly] prefer not making the two techniques completely different. I was trying to ask how risky it is to adjust the initial value of UT prior to Principia's first serialization on a new game.
<discord-> D​RVeyl. —
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — ~~Let's pretend that I always knew and just forgot the search feature in GitHub~~~ (edited)
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<discord-> D​RVeyl. — @egg Was re: changing the start epoch. For Principia it's fine to set the definition UT=0 (loose paraphrase of setting game_epoch). However, for non-Principia, adjusting each celestial body's epoch field per-save looks very unpleasant. Instead, properly adjusting FlightState.UT or Planetarium.UT once at the very start of the save seems to be sufficient.
<discord-> D​RVeyl. —
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — I [slightly] prefer not making the two techniques completely different. I was trying to ask how risky it is to adjust the initial value of UT prior to Principia's first serialization on a new game.
<discord-> D​RVeyl. —
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — ~~Let's pretend that I always knew and just forgot the search feature in GitHub~~~ (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl well, if you advance UT after the plugin is created, you will achieve the same effect
<discord-> e​gg. — actually
<discord-> e​gg. — even if you advance UT before the plugin is created, game_epoch is just UT = 0
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl see, you shouldn't ask "does Principia use UT", that's not relevant; it does, but it does so in a way that should make your approach work
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Yep, I acknowledge I asked a poor question.
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl but there's another thing
<xShadowx> egg! :D how goes adding sanity to ksp?
<discord-> e​gg. — xShadowx: We're all mad here
<xShadowx> :)
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl there's another thing, which is that KSP probably won't like large UT very much
<xShadowx> real life has me escaping to ksp again lol first mod to install....principia....ha
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl iirc it used to break at around UT = 68ish years; unless that has been addressed you will have a bad time tinkering with UT
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — So around 2^31 seconds.
<discord-> e​gg. — yes :-)
<discord-> e​gg. — > adjusting each celestial body's epoch field per-save looks very unpleasant
<discord-> e​gg. — also that's not so bad even if there are problems with distant past epochs or something, you can just tweak the mean anomalies at epoch so that KSP doesn't have a chance to know about what you did
<discord-> e​gg. — unperturbed Keplerian orbits mean you can't have the moon, but at least they're trivial to adjust in time
<oeuf> xShadowx: nice
<oeuf> xShadowx: how long since you've played Principia?
<xShadowx> uh.......how long since T2 bought ksp? ;p
<oeuf> a couple of years apparently
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Changing either field looks equally unpleasant per-save. I only spent a little time experimenting, but was finding that changes weren't persisting. Possibly I was just Doing It Wrong, possibly I was competing with something else that was restoring them, maybe both. Unfortunately, Kopernicus' method is to change the system prefab, so values that are set for all scenes and are set in MM patch land
<oeuf> so quite a bit of changes in principia
<xShadowx> :)
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl yeah you probably need to do that at every scene; there is no way it can persist
<xShadowx> im trying to escape life and the fact my country is lead by 5 year olds, ksp seemed like the best choice for that, onl way il ever see space :(
<oeuf> xShadowx: are you familiar with the release schedule? it had just been introduced when the take two thing happened
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Thus the attractiveness of advancing UT once before anything has really started. Also nicely parallels with what Principia expects. 😉 But ok, I recognize there might be a need to go back and manipulate the Keplerian orbit info for some cases.
<xShadowx> nooope
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — So if game_epoch were not adjusted but UT suddenly took a large leap forward, you believe Principia would dutifully integrate to catch up? Versus just doing that large-scale integration once at the beginning? Or that UT should be advanced before Principia's plugin can start writing the universe state?
<xShadowx> hrm did FAR die? not finding it updated beyond 1.3.1 ;o
<xShadowx> my plans of a fresh ksp install thwarted!
<egg|zzz|egg> there's a FAR continued
<egg|zzz|egg> ferram4_ is alive, just a bit busy
<egg|zzz|egg> DRVeyl: I think it doesn't matter if you do that before or after Principia does its initial thing; game_epoch means 0, not the current time
<xShadowx> ksp 1.7.2? i played last like.... 1.3.1
<xShadowx> holy XD
<egg|zzz|egg> that's how it works if you add Principia to an existing save, it catches up for a while
<egg|zzz|egg> xShadowx: 1.7.0 if you want principia
<egg|zzz|egg> or wait for the next release
<xShadowx> 1.7.0 is fine, considering i can grab other mods, else i might need to go back further >.<
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl and yeah, if UT takes a Great Leap Forward, Principia will happily follow; that's no different from timewarp
<xShadowx> lol @ FAR "crashing your planes so you dont have to", but i wanna crash em :(
<discord-> e​gg. — it's just very very fast timewarp over one frame
<xShadowx> does principia have a nice motto like that?;p
<discord-> e​gg. — xShadowx: no, but we have a release schedule
<discord-> e​gg. — we release every new moon
<xShadowx> i remember that bit
<discord-> e​gg. — xShadowx: also you might want to read the changes since you last played, https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Change-Log#chasles and scroll up from there
<xShadowx> i wonder what year a full moon will land on apr 1st, you should have a special release for that, and like change kerbal skins to wolves or something, some math tweaks so all the moons stay full moons......
* xShadowx reads wall-o-text
<xShadowx> thats a lot of changes :)
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<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin opened issue #2222: Flight plan error message wording - https://git.io/fjrxS
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #2222: Flight plan error message wording - https://git.io/fjrxS
<_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin assigned issue #2222: Flight plan error message wording - https://git.io/fjrxS
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