02:59 <discord-> n​eph. — I do know of it well but as a ksp noob I have no clue what it means for flying there

05:53 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — It means you might want to wait a couple of weeks until the inclination of the lunar plane reaches a minimum. It also means there is no recipe to get there that works all the time

06:04 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2209: Better identifiers and control structure for FukushimaEllipticBsDsJs - https://git.io/fjaWt

06:04 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] https://git.io/fjaRt

06:04 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy 0885145 - Rewrite FukushimaEllipticBsDsJs.

06:04 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy aeecef2 - Use our Sqrt.

06:04 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy 9101a53 - Merge branch 'master' into Identifiers2

06:04 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] ... and 2 more commits.

08:07 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — so, i've started to work on a contracts mod to work with kerbalism, which might incorporate

08:07 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — so, i've started to work on a contracts mod to work with kerbalism, which might implement a couple of the things mentionoed on the wiki (edited)

08:12 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — right now i'm doing 2 things that are specific to kerbalism:

08:12 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — first, magnetic field / radiation belt discovery. there will be a mission for each body that has you send a probe with a radiation sensor. you're supposed to go looking for belts and a magnetosphere. the way it is implemented is that you have to penetrate the border of the inner belt / outer belt / magnetosphere N times in order to "discover" it. only after it was discovered you can see it in

08:14 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — second will be solar observation that will influence the reliability + accuracy of warnings for CMEs. if you're not observing the sun, you won't get a warning at all. if you observe only 50% of it's surface, you get a warning 50% of the time, and the predicted duration will be off.

08:24 <discord-> S​tandecco. — @Sir Mortimer well, it precesses once every 18 years, so slightly more than a couple of weeks

08:24 <discord-> S​tandecco. — @neph basically the moon's inclination changes with time, so it's not fixed at 28° like in stock

08:25 <discord-> S​tandecco. — your best bet is putting slightly more dv in your transfer stage to add an inclination change and launching when your relative inclination to the moon is lowest

08:26 <discord-> S​tandecco. — to do that, select moon-earth barycentric and wait until the navball cursor overlaps the moon earth plane

08:27 <discord-> D​amien. — add twice as much dv and yeet it at the moon

09:42 <discord-> K​obymaru. — @Sir Mortimer

09:42 <discord-> K​obymaru. —

09:42 <discord-> K​obymaru. — > It also means there is no recipe to get there that works all the time

09:42 <discord-> K​obymaru. —

09:42 <discord-> K​obymaru. — Not true. You can launch twice a month so that you arrive exactly at the moon on the intersection of the moon orbit plane with your launch site great circle plane

09:43 <discord-> K​obymaru. — Also, if you want to go the Russian way, you can just launch into polar Orbit twice a day.

09:49 <discord-> D​amien. — @Kobymaru partly true but if your launch site latitude is above the inclination of the moon's plane then it'll never intersect

10:16 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — wait, the russians got to the moon from a polar orbit?

10:16 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — that's actually cool idea. avoids the radiation belt

10:17 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — Yes: http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/histind/E3/E123Miss.htm

10:18 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — Cool idea, impossible (almost) to get in KSP.

10:18 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. —

10:18 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — Summoning @Damien...

10:19 <discord-> D​amien. — abandon hope all ye

10:19 <discord-> D​amien. — @Sir Mortimer polar direct ascent with no parking orbit

10:19 <discord-> D​amien. — like a madman

10:21 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — And on top of that, a free return trajectory for Luna 3. Try to do that...

10:21 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — And on top of that, a free return trajectory for Luna 3. Try to do that...with Principia. (edited)

10:21 <discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — walk in the park 😛

12:49 <discord-> n​eph. — I was seriously thinking about a polar direct ascent tbh. No clue how I'd time it right though

12:56 <discord-> D​amien. — pour yourself about 50 stiff drinks before you attempt it

13:00 <discord-> B​utcher. — ~ 2 day flight time, so you want to aim about 25 degrees in front of the moon at launch.

13:59 <discord-> K​obymaru. — @Damien

13:59 <discord-> K​obymaru. —

13:59 <discord-> K​obymaru. — > but if your launch site latitude is above the inclination of the moon's plane then it'll never intersect

13:59 <discord-> K​obymaru. —

13:59 <discord-> K​obymaru. — Two planes in 3d space will always intersect unless they are parallel. I launch from Baikonur on a regular basis

14:01 <discord-> D​amien. — yeah I misread what you typed. you're right in that you can always launch to touch a plane, you just can't launch *into* plane

14:02 <discord-> D​amien. — ie polar launch to equatorial plane

14:06 <discord-> K​obymaru. — @Phineas Freak

14:06 <discord-> K​obymaru. — > Cool idea, impossible (almost) to get in KSP.

14:06 <discord-> K​obymaru. —

14:06 <discord-> K​obymaru. — why is that impossible? You can aim the direction of your transfer orbit arbitrarily by choosing the time of launch. You know that the moon does 360° in 28 days, your flight time is 2 days, let's say. That means you aim 25° away from where the moon is right now. So: vertically align your launch site with the moon, timewarp 1.6 hours for those 25° and then launch into polar Orbit

14:06 <discord-> K​obymaru. — @Damien yes, into plane is impossible. But not all of us have the luxury of a low latitude launch site ;)

14:07 <discord-> D​amien. — don't I know it lol

14:07 <discord-> D​amien. — took me long enough to pull off Pioneer 0/1, and I've still not done Luna I

14:08 <discord-> K​obymaru. — I considered starting my save in Kourou, but that just feels like cheating. On the plus side, I've finally figured out how the Russians do it. Haven't tried the polar method yet

14:09 <discord-> D​amien. — yeah Kourou is definitely cheating

14:09 <UmbralRaptor> Doesn't Pioneer 0 just require firing the launch safety option?

14:09 <discord-> D​amien. — ^

14:10 <discord-> K​obymaru. — I've done Luna1 , but a bit cheaty: launch into a high apoapsis suborbital, coast before the transfer burn during which I fiddled with the maneuvers to get an encounter

14:10 <discord-> K​obymaru. — Dunno if that counts, but I think doing it with hot staging is basically impossible without a team of mathematicians

14:11 <UmbralRaptor> kRPC, or something so you have a proper guidance computer?

14:13 <discord-> K​obymaru. — There's two issues here: one is that you need to calculate the exact position and velocity at the time of engine cutoff that you need to hit the moon

14:14 <discord-> K​obymaru. — The other one is that you have to *launch into* that exact position and velocity

14:14 <discord-> D​amien. — two is that sergey korolev was a cheater

14:14 <discord-> K​obymaru. — I have no idea how to do either

14:14 <discord-> K​obymaru. — Oh he most definitely was

14:14 <discord-> D​amien. — sergey downloaded hax irl

14:16 <UmbralRaptor> But also, a lot of early lunar missions had multiple course corrections IIRC

14:17 <discord-> K​obymaru. — True, but that's the amazing thing about Luna 1 (or Luna 2, rather): one upper stage Yeet and then it flew completely passive

14:18 <discord-> D​amien. — yeah, I lost the will to live trying to recreate Luna I on stock physics

14:19 <discord-> D​amien. — turns out that's because IRL you needed the extra declination

14:34 <discord-> B​utcher. — @Kobymaru Surely you don't need to be that exact, I mean late 50s inertial guidance wasn't all that itself and they managed.

14:34 <discord-> B​utcher. — Just pack a little RCS for course corections.

14:35 <discord-> K​obymaru. — RCS is little, Avionics are not ;)

14:36 <discord-> K​obymaru. — I think that guidance was more advanced than we give it credit for. They had a number of ground stations for triangulation and obtaining velocities

14:38 <discord-> K​obymaru. — And whole the onboard guidance wasn't the best, you can "simulate" the trajectory with pen and paper and a room full of smart people. The result of those calculations can be translated into simple parameters that the guidance can understand

14:38 <discord-> K​obymaru. — And while the onboard guidance wasn't the best, you can "simulate" the trajectory with pen and paper and a room full of smart people. The result of those calculations can be translated into simple parameters that the guidance can understand (edited)

14:39 <discord-> K​obymaru. — (see hidden figures movie about the Apollo lady calculators)

16:40 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — @Kobymaru I would really like to see your Luna 1 recreation. When we tried to do so we actually recreated the actual flight, meaning correct launch site, launch time and, of course, hot staging.

16:40 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. —

16:40 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — Putting the upper stage into a high apoapsis sub-orbital flight is really easy, you can achieve that from any launch site and with the proper timing. Not so much when all stages must be fired in a quick succession (example: pioneers 0 - 4, luna 1 - 2).

16:43 <discord-> D​amien. — [PTSD intensifies]

16:43 <discord-> K​obymaru. — @Phineas Freak like I said, mine was with a coast not with hotstaging. I could post some screenshots if you're still interested

16:43 <discord-> K​obymaru. — Oh and also some corrections with the RCS of the upper stage

16:43 <discord-> P​hineas Freak. — When i commented earlier i meant the full hot-staging option. That is (almost) impossible.

16:44 <discord-> K​obymaru. — so maybe not that close to Luna 1 haha 😅

16:44 <discord-> K​obymaru. — Yeah, it is, you're right

18:59 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2210: Rewrite function FukushimaEllipticBcDcJc - https://git.io/fja1f

19:05 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

19:05 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3686/

19:35 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3686/

20:45 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2211: Rewrite BulirschCel and FukushimaEllipticBDJ - https://git.io/fjaDh

20:47 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

20:47 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3687/

20:47 <discord-> n​eph. — How well does kOS play with Principia

20:47 <discord-> n​eph. — How well does kOS play with Principia? (edited)

20:49 <discord-> D​amien. — @Butcher

20:57 <discord-> B​utcher. — @neph mostly fine. Anything in particular?

20:58 <discord-> B​utcher. — The standard orbital data and such are just the conic data, not the real stuff. But that's the same as KER and other mods.

20:58 <discord-> B​utcher. — They're adequate for most uses.

20:59 <discord-> n​eph. — Sounds good. I was particularly wondering how difficult it would be to convert from stock's prograde-radial-normal coord system to principia's tangent-normal-binormal system for executing principia-planned maneuvers precisely.

21:01 <discord-> B​utcher. — Not sure, I've not really used them a lot. I have some code in testing that gives kOS direct access to the principia manoeuvre data.

21:02 <discord-> B​utcher. — I need to test it more thoroughly so I can get it submitted as a PR.

21:10 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2210 commit - https://git.io/fjayC

21:11 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2210: Rewrite function FukushimaEllipticBcDcJc - https://git.io/fja1f

21:13 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2211 commit - https://git.io/fjayB

21:14 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/3687/

21:14 <_whitenotifier-5dfc> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2211: Rewrite BulirschCel and FukushimaEllipticBDJ - https://git.io/fjaDh